On programming automatics

[OccultKingdoms]

Stop shitting on Linux because you cannot use it / do not want to learn.

For software development it's way better due to all software made ad hoc for production, huge workload handling, security, better file system, stability ecc.

It runs over 90% of internet servers, and it's not popular on consumers because was made for servers not client. Even BHW website runs on Linux.

Also if you are on windows, just use WSL, and you have linux on your local machine with very small effort.

Who cares about Linux to windows when literally using nodejs that's crossplatform?

You should run the software in a remote server and only control it from your local windows. So you don't need any dependecy.

If you start using it for development you will not come back.

Very complicated but yes. You got the idea how to use this crazy server system with obvious development environment useragents from Linux Tolvards.

There's nothing to learn.

It's just a problem of poor corporate fueled field called software engineering.

And I will come back for sure as I always did come back.

Maybe I could control a remote browser on remote mac / windows from my home linux.

 

[Grelmoss]

Please explain me your user agents problem (a string)...

Without all your shit software engineers you were probably coding in assembly.

Thanks them if you have abstractions like nodejs, typescript, browsers ecc.

You are leveraging their work, so there is no need to shit on them

If its an identity problem (for botting) its very likely you dont know what happens under the hood of your browser. And how are they identifying you lol

 

[OccultKingdoms]

Thanks them if you have abstractions like nodejs, typescript, browsers ecc.

Google made nodejs.
Microsoft made typescript.

Both companies are great. Proof? Windows from Microsoft, the best web frontend framework Angular from google and chrome too.

What the problem is is React. But Angular is problematic as well. Both are corporate / enterprise libraries that I don't need and I was sold them as something that matters.

Facebook is the reason our children suffer.

If its an identity problem (for botting) its very likely you dont know what happens under the hood of your browser. And how are they identifying you lol

Doesn't matter if I know if it works.

If I pretend to be a Windows user on Linux, I'll be flagged as a spoofer. All my accounts will go to hell.

 

[Grelmoss]

Google made nodejs.
Microsoft made typescript.

Both companies are great. Proof? Windows from Microsoft, the best web frontend framework Angular from google and chrome too.

What the problem is is React. But Angular is problematic as well. Both are corporate / enterprise libraries that I don't need and I was sold them as something that matters.

Facebook is the reason our children suffer.

nodejs was made by a software engineer, not at google.
Also i really dont get all your discussion about this frontned frameworks/libs when we are talking about a server app.

Doesn't matter if I know if it works.

That's what's important. That it works, then if you want to be efficient it's another story.

If I pretend to be a Windows user on Linux, I'll be flagged as a spoofer. All my accounts will go to hell.

Not necessairly. Its just more work that translates into more stability and scalability

 

[OccultKingdoms]

nodejs was made by a software engineer, not at google.
Also i really dont get all your discussion about this frontned frameworks/libs when we are talking about a server app.

Sorry. I forgot it was about this insanity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V8_(JavaScript_engine)

I read about it 4 years ago and things mixed up in my head.

Not necessairly. Its just more work that translates into more stability and scalability

Why would faking Windows on Linux provide stability and scalability I have no idea.

That's what's important. That it works, then if you want to be efficient it's another story.

Efficiency is what? Number of accounts is not gonna be higher than the amount of money x number of devices x some numbers.

Software speed is not really a problem here. It's more related to budget and how quickly we can react to changes done by social media engineers / owners.

Apart from that, what I am building is many times more efficient and faster than any software I can buy on a public marketplace allowing me to go through 1000 accounts a day on a single machine.

If I need more accounts, I can just buy / rent another machine.

nodejs was made by a software engineer, not at google.
Also i really dont get all your discussion about this frontned frameworks/libs when we are talking about a server app.

I'm talking about it as it's a distraction. In today's world everyone is asking "why don't you build a SaaS" and then you stumble upon some corporate libraries like React / Angular / Vue just to spend a year learning that and still haven't increased your numbers.

Me ditching front-end is the reason I can focus on a server app. It's not really a server app. It's more like a database app on top of testing web browser automation framework (puppeteer).

I also removed SaaS ideas. I made this thread just to use the forum to increase the focus on automation venture.

There's no server in any of these operations, so we're not really talking about a server app.

 

[OccultKingdoms]

John Carmack on X: “Coding” was never the source of value, and people shouldn't get overly attached to it. Problem solving is the core skill.

This is why Carmack is successful.

Now I'm gonna try to figure out how to do all these things as I let go of a 9-5 during last nightshift due to unfair bankers taking half my payment to collect debt.

I have 3 months worth of food and some crappy roof over my head, but that'd be enough to focus I guess. I have a private toilet and a private kitchen. Yes, I am a hacker in real life (not traditional sense, so don't confuse me with a real computer hacker).

I have some sources of income. Not much but to get substantial food and water enough.

At least I'm not posting this on Reddit. That'd be a hell of a nightmare. I did that once. And I couldn't code for months. Never post anything on Reddit if you value it.

 

[OccultKingdoms]

Frameworks, libraries - they are snakes in the grass.

You have to be careful about them.

They'll limit your ability to see the purest code you can create using the original thing.

They'll distract you. They'll even kill some of the fun.

Hence what I do is SQL. I don't understand it. It's very, very special!

The syntax like this is so wicked compared to all those "ORM" like Sequelize, Prisma, TypeORM.

But it lets you think in the original way without all these JSON like structures.

SELECT * FROM Schedules

Connect one table with another (the same table), then put some data that matches my comparisons...

SQL is a different way of thinking.

 

[OccultKingdoms]

So it's monday and as I've predicted on sunday, nobody on THE BHW is posting on monday.

I posted everything I had to say for now with regards to making as much money as is possible in 20 years span.

I will have to split the program, so that it doesn't entangle me tightly with some framework or library which here is puppeteer.

And I will have to split it so performing updates to specific parts of the program is no more than 7 days (? random number). Which is already done in many ways.

But the program is not tested at all and everything is handled with try, catch clauses.

So writing tests is a long term consideration.

SQL syntax is really out of my mind. What are these joins doing is somehow esoteric. How it works, I'll have to dive deeper. Everything in SQL is clear as the sky and obvious for data manipulation. Only these joins are odd. I haven't done any exercises. Just noticed I won't go far without plenty of exercises.

Businessman who isn't math oriented hack: if you have some heavy math operations to do and can't do math like me, cut some grass for money and... just outsource it with the money you've earned cutting grass. FREEDOM! Don't get obsessed on your "weakness". Focus on your strengths. It may work long term. As to math, you can do it some other day as a hobby and an exercise.

 

[Retrowave]

Frameworks, libraries - they are snakes in the grass.

You have to be careful about them.

They'll limit your ability to see the purest code you can create using the original thing.

They'll distract you. They'll even kill some of the fun.

Hence what I do is SQL. I don't understand it. It's very, very special!

The syntax like this is so wicked compared to all those "ORM" like Sequelize, Prisma, TypeORM.

But it lets you think in the original way without all these JSON like structures.

SELECT * FROM Schedules

Connect one table with another (the same table), then put some data that matches my comparisons...

SQL is a different way of thinking.

Switch to an ORM instead of raw SQL as those frameworks has been optimized and tested on a large scale.
Unless you're a professional then your own SQL queries will be less efficient, your code will be messy and on the edge of unmaintainable as your project grows. For edge cases you can still execute raw SQL with an ORM but those cases are rare (and often indicates a flaw in your logic)

 

[OccultKingdoms]

Switch to an ORM instead of raw SQL as those frameworks has been optimized and tested on a large scale.
Unless you're a professional then your own SQL queries will be less efficient, your code will be messy and on the edge of unmaintainable as your project grows. For edge cases you can still execute raw SQL with an ORM but those cases are rare (and often indicates a flaw in your logic)

Optimizing SQL is probably the only thing I would be able to successfully optimize in the whole of computer science domain.

Because try to understand optimization of algorithms and Big O notation.

Nothing wrong with it. Just who in their right mind would care about it in the domain of browser automation.

I'm reading this today https://ci-ceit.edu.ck/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/sql-the-complete-reference-third-edition-sep-2009.pdf
as I'm fascinated with how this whole SQL stuff works.

It's completely different style from all those languages I used.

Left join, right join, self join. All of that seems useful when reasoning both with raw SQL and ORM. Knowledge like this expands your horizons.

 

[Retrowave]

Optimizing SQL is probably the only thing I would be able to successfully optimize in the whole of computer science domain.

Because try to understand optimization of algorithms and Big O notation.

Nothing wrong with it. Just who in their right mind would care about it in the domain of browser automation.

I'm reading this today https://ci-ceit.edu.ck/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/sql-the-complete-reference-third-edition-sep-2009.pdf
as I'm fascinated with how this whole SQL stuff works.

It's completely different style from all those languages I used.

Left join, right join, self join. All of that seems useful when reasoning both with raw SQL and ORM. Knowledge like this expands your horizons.

Duplicate checks, constraints, relations, joins.. you don't need a lot of data before inefficient queries will reveal themselves and become an issue
Not to mention you save a lot of development time by using an ORM

 

[Gogol]

Switch to an ORM instead of raw SQL as those frameworks has been optimized and tested on a large scale.
Unless you're a professional then your own SQL queries will be less efficient, your code will be messy and on the edge of unmaintainable as your project grows. For edge cases you can still execute raw SQL with an ORM but those cases are rare (and often indicates a flaw in your logic)

Sorry but I have to disagree to this, specially on node.js. Prisma and drizzle, both are pretty fat (yes but i love prisma’s migration tool and use it for everything). Drizzle is a lot better but I still prefer knowing exactly what I am querying. I switched to mysql2 a year back, and I couldn’t be happier.

I get it why people don’t want to use raw sql. It takes a little experience to get the queries right. As a quick tip, if you are not sure how a sql query will perform, prefix it with “explain” and it will give you useful info.

Switching to orm just further complicates the problem, it doesn’t solve anything.

 

[OccultKingdoms]

Sorry but I have to disagree on this, specially on node.js. Prisma and drizzle, both are pretty fat (yes but i love prisma’s migration tool and use it for everything). I switched to mysql2 a year back, and I couldn’t be happier.

I get it why people don’t want to use raw sql. It takes a little experience to get the queries right. As a quick tip, if you are not sure how sql will perform, prefix it with “explain” and it will give you useful info.

Switching to orm just further complicates the problem, it doesn’t solve anything.

I started with ORM instead of starting with SQL.

I stumbled upon having to do "join" type of query in ORM.

It started to become painful - the ignorance. Ignorance is painful when it comes to more complicated things.

I didn't know it was called join but I recalled a quick talk with someone years ago.

He spoke about joins. But there's even more than joins in SQL to filter data you need getting new table each time.

I see many old school C developers complaining about how little people coding front end understand when it comes to JS.

I started with JS and I can't understand frameworks on top of JS. They complicate it. It's black magic sometimes.

 

[Gogol]

I started with ORM instead of starting with SQL.

I stumbled upon having to do "join" type of query in ORM.

It started to become painful - the ignorance. Ignorance is painful when it comes to more complicated things.

I didn't know it was called join but I recalled a quick talk with someone years ago.

He spoke about joins. But there's even more than joins in SQL to filter data you need getting new table each time.

I see many old school C developers complaining about how little people coding front end understand when it comes to JS.

I started with JS and I can't understand frameworks on top of JS. They complicate it. It's black magic sometimes.

There is a reason why dbms is taught at all cs degree courses lol. Y’all keep saying degrees are useless, but there u go..

 

[OccultKingdoms]

There is a reason why dbms is taught at all cs degree courses lol. Y’all keep saying degrees are useless, but there u go..

Can't even imagine how "math" could expand my horizons. I know it would especially with that "multi-dimensional" thinking. I don't have it.

I hope some day I'll be able to afford a part of a degree at least.

 

[Gogol]

Can't even imagine how "math" could expand my horizons. I know it would especially with that "multi-dimensional" thinking. I don't have it.

I hope some day I'll be able to afford a part of a degree at least.

Best of luck! Even if you can’t, check out the harvard cs50 course on youtube. It’s boring yes, but you can take a lot of knowledge out of it for free, if you put in the time.

 

[OccultKingdoms]

Best of luck! Even if you can’t, check out the harvard cs50 course on youtube. It’s boring yes, but you can take a lot of knowledge out of it for free, if you put in the time.

These things were so university level and I had no clue what I was hearing.

My plan is to just stick to books instead of this crazy StackOverFlow + Reddit + Quora (Google) style of coding.

It's time to grow up...

 

[Retrowave]

Sorry but I have to disagree to this, specially on node.js. Prisma and drizzle, both are pretty fat (yes but i love prisma’s migration tool and use it for everything). I switched to mysql2 a year back, and I couldn’t be happier.

I get it why people don’t want to use raw sql. It takes a little experience to get the queries right. As a quick tip, if you are not sure how sql will perform, prefix it with “explain” and it will give you useful info.

Switching to orm just further complicates the problem, it doesn’t solve anything.

I have been writing raw SQL for plenty of years and just recently switched over to an ORM and my key takeaways is these
- Code <-> DB consistency (code first approach)
- Maintainability
- Readability
- Easier migrations (!)
- Development time

I still write raw SQL for edge cases where milliseconds matters but those projects are once every blue moon

 

[OccultKingdoms]

I have been writing raw SQL for plenty of years and just recently switched over to an ORM and my key takeaways is these
- Code <-> DB consistency (code first approach)
- Maintainability
- Readability
- Easier migrations (!)
- Development time

I still write raw SQL for edge cases where milliseconds matters but those projects are once every blue moon

Yeah. You switched to ORM with SOLID understanding of SQL.

I switched to SQL with basic understanding of ORM.

If I attempt to write advanced queries using ORM with weak understanding of SQL, it's all pain and problems.

 

[Gogol]

I have been writing raw SQL for plenty of years and just recently switched over to an ORM and my key takeaways is these
- Code <-> DB consistency (code first approach)
- Maintainability
- Readability
- Easier migrations (!)
- Development time

I still write raw SQL for edge cases where milliseconds matters but those projects are once every blue moon

Yes I know they are awesome in terms of maintenance. I wish the queries were faster and the clients were smaller.

The mysql2 queries can still be typed, but they are far from being 100% typesafe. But in terms of speed and performance (for example having a connection pool with granular control) mysql2 is pretty sweet.

orm is awesome in many cases. e.g. like a blog with ssg/cached ssr, or for quick prototyping. But I wouldn’t use orm as a client in a demanding project.