Bonding system for sellers

[Ignatius_Reilly]

This comes as a result of some previous comments in this thread: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/has-anyone-seen-sartre.1595022/page-3

I've been thinking about it, and what I'm suggesting there is not at all unreasonable. A new requirement to open a sales thread could be to deposit as a bond x1 the amount of the service offered. For example, if my product/service costs 1k, I should deposit 1k as a bond to cover possible refunds. As I mentioned in the previous thread, the current dispute system only considers banning the offender, but it does not cover the possible financial losses of the claimant.

I am aware that this may sound easy, but it would involve an extra workload, as well as several implementations to make it possible. However, I believe that once implemented, there would be almost entirely advantages:

1. Scams would be significantly reduced. The bond, combined with the existing rule of freezing a seller's threads when there is an open dispute, would deter most scammers from even attempting it.
2. The time moderators spend on dispute resolution would be significantly reduced. Additionally, I have noticed that many disputes are extremely difficult to understand. Posts filled with screenshots and explanations, sometimes poorly structured, nervous people accusing each other and chaos.
3. Trust in acquiring services would increase, especially for higher amounts.

This system could be mandatory or optional. In fact, I believe that would be the smoothest transition in that direction. Being optional, it could be verified whether sellers who opt for this option see a significant increase in their sales, and with that data, evaluate the impact of the measure.

Another interesting option to consider would be that since the forum would have to take on some new responsibilities, such as, for example, safeguarding third-party money (the bonds), it wouldn't be unreasonable to charge a fee for service costs to sellers who opt for this measure. It's completely reasonable, and I don't think anyone would object to it.

For sellers who have deposited their bond, they could be granted a badge or similar indicator, showing that the seller is enrolled in the bond system, and therefore, any potential refunds are covered.

I'm also aware that this would also require sellers to be much more precise and specific in their terms and conditions to prevent potential scammers from attempting to acquire services and then later claim a false refund.

 

[INCC]

You left out that Blackhatworld is a legal entity, and collecting funds like that requires additional paperwork and a government-side tax system as they likely need some sort of escrow license.

...and that brings legal requirements which means that certain services need to be removed from the marketplace, they can't be sold anymore.

 

[Lukmat]

This comes as a result of some previous comments in this thread: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/has-anyone-seen-sartre.1595022/page-3

I've been thinking about it, and what I'm suggesting there is not at all unreasonable. A new requirement to open a sales thread could be to deposit as a bond x1 the amount of the service offered. For example, if my product/service costs 1k, I should deposit 1k as a bond to cover possible refunds. As I mentioned in the previous thread, the current dispute system only considers banning the offender, but it does not cover the possible financial losses of the claimant.

I am aware that this may sound easy, but it would involve an extra workload, as well as several implementations to make it possible. However, I believe that once implemented, there would be almost entirely advantages:

1. Scams would be significantly reduced. The bond, combined with the existing rule of freezing a seller's threads when there is an open dispute, would deter most scammers from even attempting it.
2. The time moderators spend on dispute resolution would be significantly reduced. Additionally, I have noticed that many disputes are extremely difficult to understand. Posts filled with screenshots and explanations, sometimes poorly structured, nervous people accusing each other and chaos.
3. Trust in acquiring services would increase, especially for higher amounts.

This system could be mandatory or optional. In fact, I believe that would be the smoothest transition in that direction. Being optional, it could be verified whether sellers who opt for this option see a significant increase in their sales, and with that data, evaluate the impact of the measure.

Another interesting option to consider would be that since the forum would have to take on some new responsibilities, such as, for example, safeguarding third-party money (the bonds), it wouldn't be unreasonable to charge a fee for service costs to sellers who opt for this measure. It's completely reasonable, and I don't think anyone would object to it.

For sellers who have deposited their bond, they could be granted a badge or similar indicator, showing that the seller is enrolled in the bond system, and therefore, any potential refunds are covered.

I'm also aware that this would also require sellers to be much more precise and specific in their terms and conditions to prevent potential scammers from attempting to acquire services and then later claim a false refund.

Like many other threads about escrow. It's similar.
BHW is not the digital marketplace platform.
It requires a lot of law requirements.
Just buy from reputable guys and avoid fresh Jr.VIPs with 100 posts like "discount please"

 

[Ignatius_Reilly]

You left out that Blackhatworld is a legal entity, and collecting funds like that requires additional paperwork and a government-side tax system as they likely need some sort of escrow license.

...and that brings legal requirements which means that certain services need to be removed from the marketplace, they can't be sold anymore.

No, I haven't sidelined it. As I mentioned, I'm aware that it would entail extra work, with things like the ones you mention. But since I'm not an expert on the subject either, I don't know if that bail system could be done, for example, with crypto, which, not being fiat currency, may not be subject to those regulations you mention.

 

[Lukmat]

No, I haven't sidelined it. As I mentioned, I'm aware that it would entail extra work, with things like the ones you mention. But since I'm not an expert on the subject either, I don't know if that bail system could be done, for example, with crypto, which, not being fiat currency, may not be subject to those regulations you mention.

It's ton of regulations for UK, European Union and USA. Also each country in Asia can have own regulations.
It's hiring full time lawyers to have escrow system

 

[BuildMoreLinks]

A system like that would be very complicated to implement, also there would be additional costs and regulations that would to be taken into account.

 

[Ignatius_Reilly]

It's ton of regulations for UK, European Union and USA. Also each country in Asia can have own regulations.
It's hiring full time lawyers to have escrow system

But the regulations will be those relevant to the location where the forum is legally registered as a company, right? Moreover, the forum already handles financial transactions with "donations", and there are even terms and conditions regarding this.



Are you seriously telling me that something like what I mentioned couldn't be implemented? Because from what I see, by simply changing the word "subscription" to "donation," a subscription system has already been implemented. I find it hard to believe that using crypto and changing a couple of legal terms (like the example of subscription/donation) couldn't achieve something like this.

Furthermore, I'll tell you something, and I hope you don't take it personally. I have a bit of a hobby of digging through old forum threads, and the other day, I found one where there was a dispute opened against you, and there were several people complaining. I don't know how it ended, but I noticed that you changed your username, whether it was because of that or not, I don't know if it's related to the case. Just because of that detail, I would never purchase any of your services. And mind you, I've read your comments, and you seem like an sharp guy with knowledge, but if there wasn't any guarantee involved, I wouldn't buy anything from you. I'm telling you this because of your comment about "Just buy from reputable guys and avoid fresh Jr.VIPs with 100 posts like 'discount please'."

A system like that would be very complicated to implement, also there would be additional costs and regulations that would to be taken into account.

That's what I meant by "I am aware that this may sound easy, but it would involve an extra workload,"

 

[INCC]

No, I haven't sidelined it. As I mentioned, I'm aware that it would entail extra work, with things like the ones you mention. But since I'm not an expert on the subject either, I don't know if that bail system could be done, for example, with crypto, which, not being fiat currency, may not be subject to those regulations you mention.

For BHW to start accepting payments they need a license of some sort.

If you find a workaround via donations, who knows, I am not a legal expert either so it might work or might not.

But what would 100% happen is that they will be forced to start removing services. Social media, review services, Tier 1 articles, and so forth.

This did happen with another marketplace as they were about to get sued, the services were capped, some were renamed and some were outright banned (including my services) as the site had an escrow license and acted as a third party between sellers and buyers and there wasn't a workaround.

Don't forget all the bots that are being used to game social media, many of them have closed down because they were about to get sued so all things considered, it won't happen because there are too many variables and moving parts. The idea isn't bad though, it just won't happen.

 

[Ignatius_Reilly]

For BHW to start accepting payments they need a license of some sort.

If you find a workaround via donations, who knows, I am not a legal expert either so it might work or might not.

But what would 100% happen is that they will be forced to start removing services. Social media, review services, Tier 1 articles, and so forth.

This did happen with another marketplace as they were about to get sued, the services were capped, some were renamed and some were outright banned (including my services) as the site had an escrow license and acted as a third party between sellers and buyers and there wasn't a workaround.

Don't forget all the bots that are being used to game social media, many of them have closed down because they were about to get sued so all things considered, it won't happen because there are too many variables and moving parts. The idea isn't bad though, it just won't happen.

Yes, yes, I totally agree with you that doing it through the conventional route, with payment gateway and all, would entail licenses and undesirable things. My idea was more along the lines of using cryptocurrencies and "donations." I understand that the official route is unfeasible due to all the reasons already mentioned, but it would be interesting if someone knows for sure whether the second option would be viable.

 

[INCC]

Yes, yes, I totally agree with you that doing it through the conventional route, with payment gateway and all, would entail licenses and undesirable things. My idea was more along the lines of using cryptocurrencies and "donations." I understand that the official route is unfeasible due to all the reasons already mentioned, but it would be interesting if someone knows for sure whether the second option would be viable.

Using cryptocurrency is no workaround of any sort. That marketplace used cryptocurrency.

Even if there was some workaround then I don't believe anyone from the team is going to start taking these risks.. finding a legal loophole, then creating the necessary virtual infrastructure and dealing with the lawyers and everything else included just to cater to a small part of users dealing with bad sellers.

I looked into this some time ago as I had the same idea as you and it's not going to work because it requires too much work and is an unnecessary waste of resources.

 

[Ignatius_Reilly]

Using cryptocurrency is no workaround of any sort. That marketplace used cryptocurrency.

Even if there was some workaround then I don't believe anyone from the team is going to start taking these risks.. finding a legal loophole, then creating the necessary virtual infrastructure and dealing with the lawyers and everything else included just to cater to a small part of users dealing with bad sellers.

I looked into this some time ago as I had the same idea as you and it's not going to work because it requires too much work and is an unnecessary waste of resources.

You're probably right, and I also believe it would be a terrible headache for the owner/staff.

But putting that aside, consider the potential benefits as well. Just by charging a reasonable fee to sellers who opt into the bonding system, it would already create an additional source of income for the forum. Once legal and/or implementation expenses are covered, it could generate profit. Additionally, this new layer of trust would likely attract many buyers, which in turn would attract more sellers.

I don't see it as an unnecessary expenditure of resources, as I've mentioned, those expenses could be covered by charging a fee, and in fact, once amortized, it would be an additional source of income for the forum. It would be a win-win situation in several aspects.

But again, all of this is speculation until an expert in the field can clarify if something like this is viable in any way.

 

[Diamond Damien]

This has been covered in several other threads under the concept of Escrow; whilst the idea of a bond is not exactly the same as Escrow, the theory - holding money to ensure delivery of services - is.

It's something that we're looking to include in MP2.

If you have further questions please visit our newbie guide summary here https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/s...ter-list-of-all-newbie-guide-threads.1389081/
If that doesn’t answer your question please reach out to support.blackhatworld.com for further guidance.
Answer supplied - thread closed.