At which point do banks start investigating?

[RoyalDarkBlue]

I don't know where to post this so I thought here would be apt. I'm inexperienced when it comes to payments/selling/buying and taxes. I appreciate any guiding and information.

I don't know if I need to set up a company or not. Let's say I'm a seller on BHW, I'm selling bots, I accept BTC payments and I make a little money, at the last step I convert my BTC to money and transfer it into my bank account. Is this okay when it's just small amounts? At which point do banks start watching your account? Does anyone have any experience or information regarding this?

 

[ComputerRing]

Is this okay when it's just small amounts?

What amounts are we talking about? Even more important: How frequently? How do you deposit the money? Transfer? Cash deposit?
Is it a private account? Business account?

Where are you/your bank located?

 

[Jave]

It also really depends on where you located. Here in Germany you have to create a company even if you only plan to make money on a regular basis even tho you would only earn 1 € / month you need it.

Don't know about other countries tho.

 

[Ignatius_Reilly]

As you have been told, it depends a lot on the country where you reside. The good part is that you are charging in BTC. If I were you I would not send ANYTHING to my bank. I would try to sell everything on P2P sites for cash or use prepaid cards reloadable with crypto. But never, never send anything to the bank. Banks are all sneaks.

 

[mrbossy]

yes like in stack getting like 10k usd transection can be suspicious mate !

 

[moonshine7000]

Things don't add with you with you heres your thread https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/h...untraceable-when-dealing-with-crypto.1431382/ IRS is that you.

 

[asifseoworks]

because its really depends on where you located

 

[RoyalDarkBlue]

What amounts are we talking about? Even more important: How frequently? How do you deposit the money? Transfer? Cash deposit?
Is it a private account? Business account?

Where are you/your bank located?

Smaller than $1000 in value. From a crypto exchange to a bank account. Let's say every month. Let's also say USD is valuable in this place.

It also really depends on where you located. Here in Germany you have to create a company even if you only plan to make money on a regular basis even tho you would only earn 1 € / month you need it.

Don't know about other countries tho.

Thanks for the info. That was just what I was looking for.

As you have been told, it depends a lot on the country where you reside. The good part is that you are charging in BTC. If I were you I would not send ANYTHING to my bank. I would try to sell everything on P2P sites for cash or use prepaid cards reloadable with crypto. But never, never send anything to the bank. Banks are all sneaks.

I understand, thanks. I just don't want to take risks.

yes like in stack getting like 10k usd transection can be suspicious mate !

I don't think as a bot seller I could make that much!

Things don't add you with you heres your thread https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/how-to-anonymously-transfer-crypto-how-to-learn-more-about-being-untraceable-when-dealing-with-crypto.1431382/ IRS is that you.

I was waiting for someone to make that connection. I just want to be careful I don't have experience when it comes to buying and selling on the internet or taxes. I don't want to take risks with these, if I'm supposed to create a company I will.

because its really depends on where you located

I see. I think I'm gonna reach out to an expert IRL.

 

[ComputerRing]

Smaller than $1000 in value. From a crypto exchange to a bank account. Let's say every month. Let's also say USD is valuable in this place.

Let's say you are in the US - The limit is $10,000, at which point banks are required by law to ask you to declare the source of your cash.
Now it's pretty common to think, "Hey! I just deposit $9999, and I'm safe," or "I deposit $1000 ten times in a few weeks", but banks sum up all your transfers/deposits for a given timeframe (which one that is will vary from bank to bank, country to country - and they most likely won't tell you) so down the road they still might flag your account for investigation.
If you want short-term mitigation: Friends and family, preferably with a low base transaction amount, or on the other end of the spectrum, enough movement that adding a free grand doesn't have an impact.

 

[RoyalDarkBlue]

Let's say you are in the US - The limit is $10,000, at which point banks are required by law to ask you to declare the source of your cash.
Now it's pretty common to think, "Hey! I just deposit $9999, and I'm safe," or "I deposit $1000 ten times in a few weeks", but banks sum up all your transfers/deposits for a given timeframe (which one that is will vary from bank to bank, country to country - and they most likely won't tell you) so down the road they still might flag your account for investigation.
If you want short-term mitigation: Friends and family, preferably with a low base transaction amount, or on the other end of the spectrum, enough movement that adding a free grand doesn't have an impact.

Thanks for the explanation. I have one more question if you don't mind, let's say I declared my source of income after my bank asked me, I tell them it's from Fiverr, BHW, some other freelance programming jobs etc., do I have to pay for the previous taxes? In my situation best move looks to be setting up a personal company of some sorts, I don't really want to take risks with such things.

 

[ComputerRing]

Thanks for the explanation. I have one more question if you don't mind, let's say I declared my source of income after my bank asked me, I tell them it's from Fiverr, BHW, some other freelance programming jobs etc., do I have to pay for the previous taxes? In my situation best move looks to be setting up a personal company of some sorts, I don't really want to take risks with such things.

Your bank usually does not care about taxes - that's your and your country's/city's/municpaly's tax office job. However, depending on the region, the bank and tax office might exchange information regarding this, and you will get something in the mail later.
Your bank will likely ask you to provide in-depth documentation such as invoices, goods/service descriptions, customer information, etc.
The sad reality is they will start from the perspective of "This is money from gray/dark sources", and you will have to convince them of the opposite.

 

[RoyalDarkBlue]

The sad reality is they will start from the perspective of "This is money from gray/dark sources", and you will have to convince them of the opposite.

That sounds bad. What would be the implications of not being able to convince them but also them not being able to find a proof of any legal wrong doing? I've never sold any service yet but how can I keep detailed documents, invoices, customer information etc. when I'm just a small time freelancer? In this situation can the person be forced to pay past/previous taxes? In general, what is the legal wrong doing here?

Does everyone who sell here or on places like Fiverr set up personal companies? How do people deal with this? Thanks for taking your time man.

 

[ComputerRing]

when I'm just a small time freelancer?

Being a freelancer makes you a business, which means you will have to do (in your region) standard bookkeeping one way or the other.
If you are not a business but act as a business, then that would count as breaching multiple laws, starting with taxes, consumer rights, data protection, and whatnot.

I'm not sure about the law specific, especially not international, but failure to submit PoSoF (Proof of Sources of Funds) results in a rejected transaction. Hence, the bank will refuse to take your money.
After that, the local money laundering law will kick in:
https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/8000-1250.html

Does everyone who sells here or on places like Fiverr set up personal companies?

I would say no, but very few will hit $10,000 on Fiverr. And if you do, a company is advisable either way for more fun benefits.
If you get your payments from such a platform, you will have a PoSoF, as Fiverr send you the money for a service. You might have to pay taxes and get in trouble for tax code violations.

Another fun tidbit: the limit of 10000 (could be USD, EUR, or else) can be significantly lower if someone else besides a customer of the target bank (the one where the money is being deposited) deposits it.
In Germany, customers with an active account are free to deposit 10000 EUR, while someone without an active account can only deposit 2500 EUR.

 

[Alexion]

That sounds bad. What would be the implications of not being able to convince them but also them not being able to find a proof of any legal wrong doing? I've never sold any service yet but how can I keep detailed documents, invoices, customer information etc. when I'm just a small time freelancer? In this situation can the person be forced to pay past/previous taxes? In general, what is the legal wrong doing here?

Does everyone who sell here or on places like Fiverr set up personal companies? How do people deal with this? Thanks for taking your time man.

It's easy. They can and will close your bank account. They will give 0 ( ZERO ) fucks about you and your account if you produce any suspicion and can't back things up.

Now, regarding your original question, every country has it's legislation.
You could, at the very least, do a minimum effort and check what does your country say?

Let me give you an example.
In Romania(part of E.U.), the law says that, if you receive a ONE TIME payment from whatever, you don't need any legal entity(e.g. a company). But you still have to declare the income at the end of the year.

If the payments are continuous(e.g. monthly) you are legally required to open some sort of entity(startup, micro company, etc) and start creating invoices, etc.

In any case, in any country, the law says you need to declare every cent you make from whatever you do.
it's up to you to comply or not.

I have spent my first 5 years online without declaring any income and not paying any tax. And I was making around $12,000/year at that time.
Nobody checked, and I certainly didn't give a fuck, as i was crazy and didn't understand how taxes work.

This doesn't mean you can get away with it too.

 

[MisterF]

Speak to a tax advisor who is a specialist regarding the country your business and you are based.

Get a proper paid consult and this will save you money in the long run.

 

[xReminisce]

What @MisterF says
it really boils down to your country and it's tax regulations.
Some countries could totally get away with

Smaller than $1000 in value. From a crypto exchange to a bank account. Let's say every month. Let's also say USD is valuable in this place.

while others won't

For me, anything I put through an KYC Exchanger or any wallet that can be be "proven" to tied back to me, I'm going report it, since I know they will anal fuck me if i don't
While I know some country won't be that tough at all.

It would be much smarter to get real legal advice

 

[Chris Newman]

F__k the banks. Keep most of your money or funds in crypto, in a decentralized wallet such as Trust Wallet. If you want to avoid volatility, then keep it in USDT.

 

[RoyalDarkBlue]

Being a freelancer makes you a business, which means you will have to do (in your region) standard bookkeeping one way or the other.
If you are not a business but act as a business, then that would count as breaching multiple laws, starting with taxes, consumer rights, data protection, and whatnot.

Thanks a lot man. You've been very helpful.

I have spent my first 5 years online without declaring any income and not paying any tax. And I was making around $12,000/year at that time.
Nobody checked, and I certainly didn't give a fuck, as i was crazy and didn't understand how taxes work.

I don't understand how taxes work as well so I'm trying to be careful to not get bitten in the ass in the future. I will check out my country's laws.

Speak to a tax advisor who is a specialist regarding the country your business and you are based.

Get a proper paid consult and this will save you money in the long run.

What @MisterF says
it really boils down to your country and it's tax regulations.
Some countries could totally get away with

It sure seems to be the best move to get a consultant.