[CONTROVERSIAL] Is Bitcoin a Pyramid Scheme? - Debate for Why or Why-Not | Cryptocurrency Scam?

[rauza]

So I love Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency but I know a couple smart people who suspect that it's a pyramid scheme and they have their valid arguments for it which don't really not make any sense (they make sense). I respect these people, and if it was anybody else, I would've completely dismissed their arguments. These are also people who have had made lots of money with crypto in the past but decided to cash out a while ago due to their rationale for why they think it is, so it's not like they never really dabbled in it at all.

I personally, have not really ever thought about it that way. I've profited a lot from crypto and am holding some decent cash flow through some of my investments, but I don't really have any strong counter-arguments as to why or why-not Bitcoin could possibly be or not be a pyramid scheme.

I want to hear from people who can sort of analytically think about this without involving too much of their emotions (pls) about why they may think it is or isn't a pyramid scheme.

I know the average joe answer is "wElL thEy complAinEd aT $123 and now its $12345 so hA!"

I'm just genuinely curious as to some people's "intelligent" thoughts on this matter if there are any. I know it may sound far fetched to some, but the best pyramid schemes are usually the ones that play really deep in to our heads so you can't really ever say for sure. And it'd be naïve for it to not be discussed at all at the possible miniscule nagging thought that it could be. I'm curious if someone can somehow rationalize it in such a way which gives it at least >90% confidence interval for it "not" being a pyramid scheme

Regardless, I'm going to take the L and keep with it because I enjoy working and tracking BTC and cryptos but I just wanted to stimulate a discussion in my head for this as it is interesting to think about.

Anyways, if you don't really have anything other than "FUCK YOU ITS NOT A PYRAMID SCHEME" to say, then I guess we can just leave this thread empty.

 

[alurosu]

So I love Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency but I know a couple smart people who suspect that it's a pyramid scheme and they have their valid arguments for it which don't really not make any sense (they make sense). I respect these people, and if it was anybody else, I would've completely dismissed their arguments. These are also people who have had made lots of money with crypto in the past but decided to cash out a while ago due to their rationale for why they think it is, so it's not like they never really dabbled in it at all.

What is a pyramid scheme and what arguments are you talking about? We need more context.

As for my 2 cents: BTC is a fun experiment, but it can't stand the test of time. It was necessary to spark the development of better projects.

The current financial system has big problems like:

• there's no fast way to transfer value from one bank to another without human interaction
• there's no digital version that of a system which anyone can trust
• you work for money (time = money). In this case if anyone prints money, they practically steal your past time. There's no reliable and safe way to save your past time to buy something in the future. The closest store of value we have is gold. But it's hard to move, hard to sell and hard to store
• considering we're going digital and we remove cash, we'll never have anonymity and the central system can add taxes to anything. Control is fun only in good times. Power corrupts. We need private alternative where we can defend ourselves from possible totalitarian control

BTC was supposed to solve everything I just mentioned. So far it can only do 1. Store of value. We can turn this the right way, but we need more consensus in development. Scalability is an issue for years now and we aren't even touching the privacy matter.

 

[HenryObi]

Bitcoin is not a 'pyramid scheme'.
I don't know why you think it is.

 

[rauza]

What is a pyramid scheme and what arguments are you talking about? We need more context.

Aside from the feedback I got from some past investors mentioned in the post, it's not hard to find tonnes of arguments from economists and other big sources challenging the possible thought it could be. Point of it is just to be able to curate some arguments from what some people at BHW think about it.

Bitcoin is not a 'pyramid scheme'.
I don't know why you think it is.

If you read the post, you would know I don't think that it is but I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on it...

If anything, I'm a pretty damn big advocate for using BTC as a huge chunk of my business relies on it.

 

[alurosu]

Aside from the feedback I got from some past investors mentioned in the post, it's not hard to find tonnes of arguments from economists and other big sources challenging the possible thought it could be. Point of it is just to be able to curate some arguments from what some people at BHW think about it.

For the sake of argument, please list a few. It's hard to know what we are talking about if you avoid the subject

I mentioned all the flaws in BTC to maybe confirm your fears. And to acknowledge that there are problems. That being said, I don't think it is a pyramid scheme. I may be wrong, but please provide arguments to why it would be

 

[JohnH8Man]

What is a pyramid scheme and what arguments are you talking about? We need more context.

As for my 2 cents: BTC is a fun experiment, but it can't stand the test of time. It was necessary to spark the development of better projects.

The current financial system has big problems like:

• there's no fast way to transfer value from one bank to another without human interaction
• there's no digital version that of a system which anyone can trust
• you work for money (time = money). In this case if anyone prints money, they practically steal your past time. There's no reliable and safe way to save your past time to buy something in the future. The closest store of value we have is gold. But it's hard to move, hard to sell and hard to store
• considering we're going digital and we remove cash, we'll never have anonymity and the central system can add taxes to anything. Control is fun only in good times. Power corrupts. We need private alternative where we can defend ourselves from possible totalitarian control

BTC was supposed to solve everything I just mentioned. So far it can only do 1. Store of value. We can turn this the right way, but we need more consensus in development. Scalability is an issue for years now and we aren't even touching the privacy matter.

I agree with your reasoning. BTC has sparked development of many new projects that can solve the other points that you have mentioned. For example, Monero provides more anonymity than BTC and the most popular marketplaces on the dark web are now doing transactions only in XMR. I think it's a good project. We need more such projects. I hate paying tax on the money I earn, I withdraw, I spend, and those fucking corrupt SOBs are just having the time of their lives with our hard earned money. They do scams, we pay for it. They travel, we pay for it. They fight, we pay for it. I am just too tired of the governments and the traditional banking system.

 

[alurosu]

I agree with your reasoning. BTC has sparked development of many new projects that can solve the other points that you have mentioned. For example, Monero provides more anonymity than BTC and the most popular marketplaces on the dark web are now doing transactions only in XMR. I think it's a good project. We need more such projects. I hate paying tax on the money I earn, I withdraw, I spend, and those fucking corrupt SOBs are just having the time of their lives with our hard earned money. They do scams, we pay for it. They travel, we pay for it. They fight, we pay for it. I am just too tired of the governments and the traditional banking system.

Yes. I agree with some taxes. We live by helping each other. But the thing is that I would love to decide where my money goes. If the gov determines when and what to tax, it suddenly looks kind of scary. Keep an eye on the future. XMR is looking good

 

[rauza]

For the sake of argument, please list a few. It's hard to know what we are talking about if you avoid the subject

Well again, as someone who advocates for Bitcoin, I just wanted to be able to hear people's thoughts on it. As I said, I want to gain some insight from people who have their own strong opinions about it, so it's great to hear yours and why you think so.

From what I remember, the biggest vulnerability point someone usually goes for in this argument is to say that because it involves a reliance/value factor as in for someone to pay a price higher in order for the price to rise.

Now usually I'd look at that and say that can be said about many other things which are not ponzi / pyramid schemes. The most I'd go as far to say anything about it is the only way it can be considered something malicious comes from when many people do pump/dumps to play with the prices. It was technically designed to sort of work that way so it sort of creates that perpetual circular scheme. The guys that were talking to me about it mentioned the history behind early adopters taking advantage as it may technically reward the earlier birds. But again, that's technically how the system was designed so it's EASY to maybe look at it that way simply from the kind of schemes we've faced in the past. But I also think that this concept can be applied to many things in life that are NOT schemes.

For many people who put money in to BTC 2 years ago for example, it isn't far fetched to say many lost it. So you're investing a lot in to a hold of value which can be seen as a way where it exists to make early adopters richer and later birds sort of the "suckers". And since it has no capital associated with it, there really wasn't any inherent risk for early adopters.

But I think pyramid scheme is probably a bad way to describe it as they did as there's no direct way to resell. I think the big thing is just looking at the early adopters vs "late suckers" and the way the system was designed around that. Aside from that ((again I fucking love BTC)) if you do have differing opinions, you're downvoted and people who are bullish are pretty gung ho about it to levels of cringe-mania. Which is why I was slightly nervous at all to hear people's thoughts about it on this forum.

In fact if anything, I'm quite surprised you haven't even had this idea cross in your mind at all or anybody who has seriously invested themselves in this space (I have and that's why I'm curious) as it is definitely something to explore especially if you're passionate and truly believe in it.

_____________________

So again, my opinion?

I don't think it will possibly replace current systems of transactions via FIAT / bank / etc as the way it's designed at least in the consumer sense and I think many other cryptos for example do a better job than BTC on that. But I do think BTC has been an iconic hallmark to transition society in to a world of crypto which we can see becoming a big source of value and currency in the future (as it's already making great strides to doing).

As for pyramid scheme? I think that's a bad way to describe it. Not really ponzi either. But I can see why some people MAY be skeptical about it. It's important to understand these people's perspectives in order to revolutionize the future.

And so I'll say it again - I made the thread to simply see people's opinion on the matter so that I can also be further educated in the matter or reinforce some rationale in people who actually are skeptical about this whole thing.

 

[wolfofbillions]

The guy behind bitcoin will soon crash the whole system, within the next 5 years!

 

[rauza]

The guy behind bitcoin will soon crash the whole system, within the next 5 years!

K, so you're the next guy that didn't read the thread and got a little angsty about it.

Yeah, I seriously went way over my head trying to bring any level of debate to the subject on a crypto subforum. Oh well.

...Unless you're actually being serious lmfao.

 

[wolfofbillions]

K, so you're the next guy that didn't read the thread and got a little angsty about it.

Yeah, I seriously went way over my head trying to bring any level of debate to the subject on a crypto subforum. Oh well.

...Unless you're actually being serious lmfao.

You're funny.

 

[rauza]

You're funny.

The satire is beyond me but my gf thought so too, until she left

 

[wolfofbillions]

The satire is beyond me but my gf thought so too, until she left

my gf also left me, she's gone into hiding under our house (Dark humor)

 

[Deleted member 923340]

I think it is one of those well thought out scam that's happening in plain sight that we will talk about in years. I hope I am wrong tho.

No one I know truly buys bitcoin for what it is advertised ( a decentralized medium of money), all the people I know buy in the hopes to sell later to earn some easy money.

When someone is advertising/promising easy money - I get that gut feeling to avoid it at all costs, and that's what I've been doing all these years.

 

[rauza]

my gf also left me, she's gone into hiding under our house (Dark humor)

Bruh.

I think it is one of those well thought out scam that's happening in plain sight that we will talk about in years. I hope I am wrong tho.

No one I know truly buys bitcoin for what it is advertised ( a decentralized medium of money), all the people I know buy in the hopes to sell later to earn some easy money.

When someone is advertising/promising easy money - I get that gut feeling to avoid it at all costs, and that's what I've been doing all these years.

Damn, I didn't think I'd hear an opinion from the other side!

It's something to think about. I hope you're wrong too :/

I don't think it's a scam, and I do genuinely think BTC is paving a way for a future with crypto used in a consumer sense, but good to hear your thoughts.

 

[JohnH8Man]

When someone is advertising/promising easy money - I get that gut feeling to avoid it at all costs, and that's what I've been doing all these years.

that's why you losing this easy money making opportunity.

 

[Deleted member 923340]

that's why you losing this easy money making opportunity.

And when the sheep go after the easy money - I try to make money by providing value - let's see who ends up rich at the end of the day

 

[rauza]

And when the sheep go after the easy money - I try to make money by providing value - let's see who ends up rich at the end of the day

I use BTC as part of business, which may be a small percentage of customers for that end of things but still some decent flow so I don't really see it as easy money as much as I look at it for its intended usage in using as an actual currency for exchange of value.

But for the people who solely using crypto as a way to earn money, it's not exactly dumb of them to try to take opportunities to play with the market and get some ROI as long as it's done smart and right. I think it all goes wrong when people get greedy and center a lot of their philosophy and earnings around it and that's when it starts becoming a lazy, high risk approach for easy money which isn't the best way to approach it at all... which I do think is a measurable chunk of the crypto community.

 

[Dopious]

I use BTC as part of business, which may be a small percentage of customers for that end of things but still some decent flow so I don't really see it as easy money as much as I look at it for its intended usage in using as an actual currency for exchange of value.

Any reason your not using a more stable coin in your business, other then people know more about BTC?

 

[wolfofbillions]

Bruh.



Damn, I didn't think I'd hear an opinion from the other side!

It's something to think about. I hope you're wrong too :/

I don't think it's a scam, and I do genuinely think BTC is paving a way for a future with crypto used in a consumer sense, but good to hear your thoughts.

well I thought it was funny