Legit method? Or illegal?

[BassTrackerBoats]

I think that is vastly more likely to happen. A few and it will go unnoticed or Etsy will turn a blind eye to it. But eventually, someone will massively overbuy or have a really poor idea of what will sell and try a mass return. That will almost certainly get attention and a reaction. Then it will suck for the sellers who got returns and the buyers who were too late in trying to return.

20 accounts using different payment methods, different IPs and variations of their receiving address buying from 2 or 3 buyers and one can probably bypass any security measures as they are most likely automated.

Selling at flea markets that are a decent size would generate solid cash as I've done that with a variety of products and even services as there is good traffic walking the aisles there. I've sold VHS tapes (super profitable as I had a good wholesale connection), high pressure hot water cleaning services (also very profitable and got some serious commercial accounts as well as residential accounts), commercial janitorial services (good profit there too), Bottled water services (gosh that business beat me up but the money was spectacular) as well as cookies, stuff I bought from yard sales and all kinds of things.

It's perfectly legal to sell there in the USA as long as you are not selling knock offs (they do check for that in the States) and you could probably make a buck or two doing this.

I would not but the idea is an interesting one and with a little bit of kicking the idea around it could be something one could implement.

Screwing the individual sellers on Etsy is really not something I see here as they are offering to refund inside a particular period if you return the product and they can just sell it to someone else.

 

[chrsplmr]

All these poor sellers going to get huge rushes of orders then followed up by returns in 170 days time.

I was thinking this very same thing , and only the new sellers offer long returns so the policies will change fast.

 

[Volman]

20 accounts using different payment methods, different IPs and variations of their receiving address buying from 2 or 3 buyers and one can probably bypass any security measures as they are most likely automated.

It sounds like you put some thought into it. The people who are going to screw it up probably won't.

I don't want to visit a flea market as a consumer, I have absolutely no desire to as a vendor. Also your mention about knockoffs, I think for the same reason anyone doing this should comply with local sales tax rules. I suspect the people looking for knockoffs are also looking for the sales tax certificate being posted.

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

It sounds like you put some thought into it. The people who are going to screw it up probably won't.

I don't want to visit a flea market as a consumer, I have absolutely no desire to as a vendor. Also your mention about knockoffs, I think for the same reason anyone doing this should comply with local sales tax rules. I suspect the people looking for knockoffs are also looking for the sales tax certificate being posted.

I put a lot of thought into a lot of things and not because I want to do them but to see if it is viable and offer some value to those that may want to do that. Plus I like to bounce ideas around my pretty empty head as one day something might actually be something I put into play or give the outline to a friend so they can.

A sales tax certificate is a nickle dime issue - knock offs are Fed time.

Anyone who can inhale and exhale can get a sales tax certificate - I have 8 of them for different entities we own.

The flea markets near you may not offer value but the ones I marketed in, from North East USA down to as far south as Miami, were great places to sell and many sellers offered real value.

 

[Volman]

I put a lot of thought into a lot of things and not because I want to do them but to see if it is viable and offer some value to those that may want to do that. Plus I like to bounce ideas around my pretty empty head as one day something might actually be something I put into play or give the outline to a friend so they can.

A sales tax certificate is a nickle dime issue - knock offs are Fed time.

Anyone who can inhale and exhale can get a sales tax certificate - I have 8 of them for different entities we own.

The flea markets near you may not offer value but the ones I marketed in, from North East USA down to as far south as Miami, were great places to sell and many sellers offered real value.

That is awesome.

Frankly, these posts serve two purposes for me.

1. Point out the stupid mistakes that many people will make with this.
2. Get me closer to 15 posts without making stupid, "That's cool." "Thanks for sharing." "Me too" posts.

As to the flea markets, you are probably right. My few experiences were not enjoyable to me, so it is something I would prefer to avoid.

 

[Amsterdammed]

Or start a renting out tools store. By rent out 1 weak. Bring back to te store. Or a renting out app on smartphone.

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

As to the flea markets, you are probably right. My few experiences were not enjoyable to me, so it is something I would prefer to avoid.

Englishtown NJ has, or had, a huge one that was so profitable for me I only had to work 3 days a week.

Miami and Ft Lauderdale have a couple that has stupid traffic that generated silly money for me.

There are 2 in Jacksonville Fl that did very well for me... not like the 2 above but well worth the 15.00 or 20.00 a day to market.

2 in Virginia put a more than acceptable amount of money in my pocket back in the day.

As a seller you have to be on spot - as a buyer you need to separate the garbage imported from stuff that is selling below market and understand the services that are being offered.

Clark Film in Clark New Jersey hired our company for quarterly services (they are no longer in business as nobody uses real film in cameras anymore).

Hertz Rent a Car in New York did the same (great contract!).

Weeks Marine did the same also (good work but not thrilled with their payment process).

I've sold more Archway, Royal Dansk Danish Butter Cookies and FFV cookies at flea markets than you can count and loved the cash flow.

I could go on and on but that would only bore you and the rest of the community.

Don't limit yourself in your marketing as that will limit your checking and savings accounts.

 

[Amsterdammed]

In Amsterdam 30 days return polisie offline store. So buy offline. Rent out. End bring back. Hahaha if i was in Europe but no in afrika on the beads

 

[Jcgtampa]

Yes, because Flea markets make people rich.

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

Yes, because Flea markets make people rich.

They probably do not but they are good for cash flow.

 

[bartosimpsonio]

Screwing the individual sellers on Etsy is really not something I see here as they are offering to refund inside a particular period if you return the product and they can just sell it to someone else.

Also refunds will be the minority IMO.

You have several months to sell the damn things. The return is only a feature you'd use if you're unable to sell anything in 150+ days. Then you return in the last 30.

It's not necessarily screwing anyone. The idea is to try and resell before the 180 days.

 

[William702]

View attachment 127022

TL;DR
Legit Method? Yeah with the right products
Legal...yes, but potentially room for litigation.

I don't think it is illegal. However if it was proved you are intentionally buying and returning and abusing a system or marketplace, an individual might try and sue you or the marketplace might try. I don't have any idea how successful they would be but they might try and that could bee a headache.

I don't think it is viable without a lot of leg work like creating accounts, doing research. buying and returning. doing this maybe only 2 or 3 times per account. so to have enough stuff to have a stall at a market you would probably need hundreds of accounts on a continual basis. not to mention the cost of IP's, and someone to manage all the account creation and management.

I just dont think it is viable. It would be easier to just open a store on etsy dropshipping jewelry from china. I can reference several shops doing this that make 7 figures. you are not going to do that at a market.

Also people go to etsy to buy nice things, people go to markets to buy cheap things. you cant expect to buy a piece of jewelry that is already over priced on etsy and then charge double or triple for it. you can do this but there are easier ways to make a buck. Markets and reselling in general is a marvelous way to get cash flow as Bass pointed out, so I am not knocking markets in general but i dont see this particular idea doing well. As for whether this is moral or not that is up for each individual to decide.

It is not something I would invest money or time into but the idea is sound for other applications and potentially other products. High end furniture might be a better idea or high ticket one off items that dont require you to have more than 3 or 4 at a stall. The idea could definitely work fro some items. I just think jewelry is a hard one to do well at. dont forget that a return policy does not mean for any reason. you would have to have a valid reason and more than just a "I don't like this" reason. I think there are quite a few gray areas that it is not worth doing given the work involved. Keeping track of dates, dealing with irate sellers. Seems like a boat load of stress.

I anyone want's shit to sell at a flea market, go buy out a closing down store for 1c or 2c on the dollar and take that stuff there instead.

Good points. You think Etsy would ban buyers who systematically do this?

Yes, however that said only if they get reported. Etsy do not seem very proactive at all if not for reports and even then it is hit or miss if people get to them.

It’s not robbing if the person is quite literally following a policy all parties have agreed to, once the product is purchased you can do whatever you damn well please with it and get your refund just as you please too. To me that somewhat sounds like a loophole so fits the bill for being a blackhat method.

I’m not saying it’s morally right but it’s by no means illegal and wrong in accordance with the law, probably no worse than what bigger corporations do to everyone else.

I would not be so sure as to say it is 100% legal. different states and different countries have their own laws and regulations. I could see this getting someone in hot water if not out of pocket.

20 accounts using different payment methods, different IPs and variations of their receiving address buying from 2 or 3 buyers and one can probably bypass any security measures as they are most likely automated.

Selling at flea markets that are a decent size would generate solid cash as I've done that with a variety of products and even services as there is good traffic walking the aisles there. I've sold VHS tapes (super profitable as I had a good wholesale connection), high pressure hot water cleaning services (also very profitable and got some serious commercial accounts as well as residential accounts), commercial janitorial services (good profit there too), Bottled water services (gosh that business beat me up but the money was spectacular) as well as cookies, stuff I bought from yard sales and all kinds of things.

It's perfectly legal to sell there in the USA as long as you are not selling knock offs (they do check for that in the States) and you could probably make a buck or two doing this.

I would not but the idea is an interesting one and with a little bit of kicking the idea around it could be something one could implement.

Screwing the individual sellers on Etsy is really not something I see here as they are offering to refund inside a particular period if you return the product and they can just sell it to someone else.

I agree, there is definitely something to this idea. Not something I would do but I agree it is worth thinking about and possibly applying to other ventures.

It sounds like you put some thought into it. The people who are going to screw it up probably won't.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[BassTrackerBoats]

TL;DR
Legit Method? Yeah with the right products
Legal...yes, but potentially room for litigation.

I don't think it is illegal. However if it was proved you are intentionally buying and returning and abusing a system or marketplace, an individual might try and sue you or the marketplace might try. I don't have any idea how successful they would be but they might try and that could bee a headache.

I don't think it is viable without a lot of leg work like creating accounts, doing research. buying and returning. doing this maybe only 2 or 3 times per account. so to have enough stuff to have a stall at a market you would probably need hundreds of accounts on a continual basis. not to mention the cost of IP's, and someone to manage all the account creation and management.

I just dont think it is viable. It would be easier to just open a store on etsy dropshipping jewelry from china. I can reference several shops doing this that make 7 figures. you are not going to do that at a market.

Also people go to etsy to buy nice things, people go to markets to buy cheap things. you cant expect to buy a piece of jewelry that is already over priced on etsy and then charge double or triple for it. you can do this but there are easier ways to make a buck. Markets and reselling in general is a marvelous way to get cash flow as Bass pointed out, so I am not knocking markets in general but i dont see this particular idea doing well. As for whether this is moral or not that is up for each individual to decide.

It is not something I would invest money or time into but the idea is sound for other applications and potentially other products. High end furniture might be a better idea or high ticket one off items that dont require you to have more than 3 or 4 at a stall. The idea could definitely work fro some items. I just think jewelry is a hard one to do well at. dont forget that a return policy does not mean for any reason. you would have to have a valid reason and more than just a "I don't like this" reason. I think there are quite a few gray areas that it is not worth doing given the work involved. Keeping track of dates, dealing with irate sellers. Seems like a boat load of stress.

I anyone want's shit to sell at a flea market, go buy out a closing down store for 1c or 2c on the dollar and take that stuff there instead.



Yes, however that said only if they get reported. Etsy do not seem very proactive at all if not for reports and even then it is hit or miss if people get to them.



I would not be so sure as to say it is 100% legal. different states and different countries have their own laws and regulations. I could see this getting someone in hot water if not out of pocket.



I agree, there is definitely something to this idea. Not something I would do but I agree it is worth thinking about and possibly applying to other ventures.



Isn't that the truth!

I'm glad you popped in here as you know Etsy better than almost anyone else I know.

 

[goose1234]

I don't think this would work well certainly in the UK.

Etsy prices tend to be on the high side compared to other online market places.

People go to markets to get cheap items and no way going to pay top prices. So just don't see where the profit would come from.

 

[rafark]

That's a very low thing to do and will probably get you banned.

You’re on a blackhat forum.

A blackhat *SEO* forum.

 

[William702]

Also refunds will be the minority IMO.

You have several months to sell the damn things. The return is only a feature you'd use if you're unable to sell anything in 150+ days. Then you return in the last 30.

It's not necessarily screwing anyone. The idea is to try and resell before the 180 days.

If it was reselling the item online you would probably have a better chance of getting a high price if it could be marketed properly.

If it is screwing someone or not is questionable. Again that is for each person to decide. Lest we forget paypal dont refund fees on refunds. If it is a $100 order the seller is on the hook for $10 non refundable paypal fees. Not to mention that things on Etsy are primarily handmade so lots of people make to order so it could be a huge hassle for someone and lots of people live paycheck to paycheck so having $100 unexpectedly come out of your account could be another huge hassle. This is based on a sale being $100 of course. Another thing to look at is that most sellers are pushed to offer free shipping now on any items over $35 so the seller would be on the hook for that too.

One way someone could screw themselves is if the seller makes the item for them custom or lists it as such. Buyers cannot get refunds on custom handmade items, or at least that used to be a rule. If a seller made something for you custom you could not return it or etsy would go in the favor of the seller. Someone can correct me on this if I am wrong. Someone could end up being on the hook for quite a bit if something does not sell.

In my opinion it would just be easier to sell the items online and place an order with the buyers details when they come in. Everyone wins

 

[Voo]

If it was reselling the item online you would probably have a better chance of getting a high price if it could be marketed properly.

If it is screwing someone or not is questionable. Again that is for each person to decide. Lest we forget paypal dont refund fees on refunds. If it is a $100 order the seller is on the hook for $10 non refundable paypal fees. Not to mention that things on Etsy are primarily handmade so lots of people make to order so it could be a huge hassle for someone and lots of people live paycheck to paycheck so having $100 unexpectedly come out of your account could be another huge hassle. This is based on a sale being $100 of course.

One way someone could screw themselves is if the seller makes the item for them custom or lists it as such. Buyers cannot get refunds on custom handmade items, or at least that used to be a rule. If a seller made something for you custom you could not return it or etsy would go in the favor of the seller. Someone can correct me on this if I am wrong. Someone could end up being on the hook for quite a bit if something does not sell.

In my opinion it would just be easier to sell the items online and place an order with the buyers details when they come in. Everyone wins

If you sell it online could it not technically just constitute as dropshipping since you don't ever need to buy any of the products in order to hold stock and you never have to " screw " anyone over by sending back unsold stock. You simply just redirect marked up purchases to the buyers address.

 

[William702]

If you sell it online could it not technically just constitute as dropshipping since you don't ever need to buy any of the products in order to hold stock and you never have to " screw " anyone over by sending back unsold stock. You simply just redirect marked up purchases to the buyers address.

Yeah exactly, although I realize that is not the question @bartosimpsonio asked. It was about flea markets but to get double the price as the post suggested it would probably be easier to sell online anyway thus allowing you to do it the more ethical way where it is essentially just dropshipping. Still though the original method posed could work in other ways.

 

[B1TCS]

I think it's very unethical to do, but good method

 

[bartosimpsonio]

TL;DR
Legit Method? Yeah with the right products
Legal...yes, but potentially room for litigation.

I don't think it is illegal. However if it was proved you are intentionally buying and returning and abusing a system or marketplace, an individual might try and sue you or the marketplace might try. I don't have any idea how successful they would be but they might try and that could bee a headache.

I don't think it is viable without a lot of leg work like creating accounts, doing research. buying and returning. doing this maybe only 2 or 3 times per account. so to have enough stuff to have a stall at a market you would probably need hundreds of accounts on a continual basis. not to mention the cost of IP's, and someone to manage all the account creation and management.

I just dont think it is viable. It would be easier to just open a store on etsy dropshipping jewelry from china. I can reference several shops doing this that make 7 figures. you are not going to do that at a market.

Also people go to etsy to buy nice things, people go to markets to buy cheap things. you cant expect to buy a piece of jewelry that is already over priced on etsy and then charge double or triple for it. you can do this but there are easier ways to make a buck. Markets and reselling in general is a marvelous way to get cash flow as Bass pointed out, so I am not knocking markets in general but i dont see this particular idea doing well. As for whether this is moral or not that is up for each individual to decide.

It is not something I would invest money or time into but the idea is sound for other applications and potentially other products. High end furniture might be a better idea or high ticket one off items that dont require you to have more than 3 or 4 at a stall. The idea could definitely work fro some items. I just think jewelry is a hard one to do well at. dont forget that a return policy does not mean for any reason. you would have to have a valid reason and more than just a "I don't like this" reason. I think there are quite a few gray areas that it is not worth doing given the work involved. Keeping track of dates, dealing with irate sellers. Seems like a boat load of stress.

I anyone want's shit to sell at a flea market, go buy out a closing down store for 1c or 2c on the dollar and take that stuff there instead.



Yes, however that said only if they get reported. Etsy do not seem very proactive at all if not for reports and even then it is hit or miss if people get to them.



I would not be so sure as to say it is 100% legal. different states and different countries have their own laws and regulations. I could see this getting someone in hot water if not out of pocket.



I agree, there is definitely something to this idea. Not something I would do but I agree it is worth thinking about and possibly applying to other ventures.



Isn't that the truth!

Great take. I think you're spot on, this might run for a while then you're liable for a bunch of legal trouble for years. But like you said the method can be adapted IMO.

I think it's very unethical to do, but good method

Everyone focused on the 180 days returns for some reason....

The money making isn't in the returns. It's in sales.

Returns are a safeguard in the end.

If you can't sell something in 150 days or so then you're probably in the wrong business anyway. You'd end up with new old stock of whatever you were trying to sell.

The point here is you can find large spread between online prices and offline prices. Method mentions flea market but if you're creative you can think of several variations of it.