Prop 65 Bounty Hunting

[JeffShm]

Has anyone looked into filing Prop 65 lawsuits? Evidently they are ubiquitously filed and easy to get settlements out of. Basically all one would need to do is file a lawsuit against any company that has failed to comply with Prop 65's warning requirements concerning potentially harmful chemical exposure to Californians.

Currently I am trying to figure out 2 main things:

1) Can someone file a Prop 65 lawsuit even if they are a resident of a state other than California? The law states that any citizen can file suit in the "public interest", and so far I have not found anything specifying that California residency is a requirement here, so while it seems possible I'm not yet sure if it would work. It DOES say that lawsuits can be filed against any corporation regardless of where they are headquartered as long as their product is available to Californians and is in some way out of compliance with Prop 65.

2) How exactly does one go about establishing standing for a Prop 65 lawsuit? The list of "problem" chemicals California maintains is a long one (and growing all the time), and I'd wager that almost every industrially produced consumer product contains one or more of the chemicals listed. Having said that, I wonder whether some kind of scientific test is required to establish credibility before filing a lawsuit, or if one could simply file based on common or publicly available knowledge of what chemicals a given product contains.

I definitely want to look into this more, but it seems to be low-hanging fruit. Additional provisions were passed last year stipulating more complex warning requirements for certain types of companies, so there is now an additional angle from which plaintiffs can claim violations.

 

[dotc0m]

No idea. were not lawyers here, this is a IM forum.

 

[wpsokw]

Following as I'm currently living in SD. If I can find time, I'll find some lawyer friends to ask about this.

Great suggestions OP!

 

[JeffShm]

Well I don't even live in California, but it seems that any company doing business in CA is fair game for this.

And yes, I'm aware that BHW is primarily focused on IM (I've lurked on this site on and off for ~10 years), but I have on occasion seen other profit generating ideas brought forth on here that aren't necessarily in line with what everyone else is doing. There's threads galore about how to drive more traffic here, there, and everywhere, so I figured I'd propose something different.

If this is as simple as it seems I could see, for example, going after the likes of Comcast for failing to notify customers that routers they rent out to people contain carcinogens or even produce small amounts of ozone while running. Rather than go through the hassle of mounting a legal defense the hope is that they would just settle out of court for a handsome fee.

 

[Elliot305]

To OP and others, please be aware there are some downsides to doing this sort of method. I know nothing about the specific laws you’re referring to, but do have experience in being a “professional plaintiff.” 15 years ago I focused on suing debt collectors and telemarketers. Made a career out of it for 3 years. I won’t bore you with my story but have you considered the following:

Are you prepared to learn the applicable laws and rules of civil procedure?

Will you be confident and competent enough to speak with opposing counsel over the phone when demanding settlement?

Will you be prepared if a countersuit is filed? How will you handle this situation?

Will you be prepared to speak with the DA’s when they start investigating you for extortion based on complaints from these companies?

I know what you’re thinking; “that wouldn’t happen cause I’m just holding the companies accountable.” Sorry to spoil the fun, but it easily can.

I was never prosecuted but was investigated a couple times and my knowledge/competence of the law (my rights) is what allowed me to continue on. I was countersued a few times because regardless of them violating the law technically, some companies not only won’t settle, they will throw a suit right back at you.

If you do this method, don’t do it half-assed. Present yourself as a Consumer Rights Advocate and be just as competent as a lawyer would be. That’s the only way to make enough money to justify to risk.

 

[JeffShm]

To OP and others, please be aware there are some downsides to doing this sort of method. I know nothing about the specific laws you’re referring to, but do have experience in being a “professional plaintiff.” 15 years ago I focused on suing debt collectors and telemarketers. Made a career out of it for 3 years. I won’t bore you with my story but have you considered the following:

Are you prepared to learn the applicable laws and rules of civil procedure?

Will you be confident and competent enough to speak with opposing counsel over the phone when demanding settlement?

Will you be prepared if a countersuit is filed? How will you handle this situation?

Will you be prepared to speak with the DA’s when they start investigating you for extortion based on complaints from these companies?

I know what you’re thinking; “that wouldn’t happen cause I’m just holding the companies accountable.” Sorry to spoil the fun, but it easily can.

I was never prosecuted but was investigated a couple times and my knowledge/competence of the law (my rights) is what allowed me to continue on. I was countersued a few times because regardless of them violating the law technically, some companies not only won’t settle, they will throw a suit right back at you.

If you do this method, don’t do it half-assed. Present yourself as a Consumer Rights Advocate and be just as competent as a lawyer would be. That’s the only way to make enough money to justify to risk.

All of these are excellent points! No pressure if you would rather not, but I would be interested to hear more about your experiences in this area if you're comfortable sharing them, and of course in whatever level of detail you deem appropriate. I know you probably meant your questions to be rhetorical, but I'll include my answers below in case that may provide further opportunities for discussion and I'll try to be as candid as possible.

1) Prepared to lean applicable laws/procedure?

To a certain degree, yes. I have a desk job with a lot of downtime, so I can usually dedicate several hours a day to researching a topic if I'm so inclined. Having said that, I have no formal legal training at all (work in IT), and ultimately I would only entertain actually doing this if I were represented by legal counsel. It's my understanding that there are many attorneys to choose from who specialize in Prop 65 lawsuits who will accept payment in the form of a percentage of the won settlement or judgement, and this is the type of representation I would personally want to look for.


2) Confident/competent enough to demand settlement over the phone from opposing counsel?

Confident, yeah. It takes a lot for anyone get under my skin in person or over the phone, and I'm quite capable of communicating my expectations to others firmly and clearly without being mean (cursing, ad hominem attacks, etc). As for competent? On my own, I would not describe myself as legally competent, so I think I would do my best to stick to making statements I know my counsel would support.


3) Countersuits against me?

That would suck. It briefly occurred to me that I could create an LLC to act as the official plaintiff so as to shield myself behind the corporate veil, but maybe that's getting a little deep. I imagine that could be construed as illegal or at least shady in its own right but I haven't really looked into it. Beyond that, I don't really have many assets to speak of so if I really painted myself into a corner I suppose I could declare bankruptcy, although if it happened for this reason my soon-to-be-wife might Epstein me.


4) Am I prepared to possibly be investigated for extortion?

Honestly not really, that would suck a lot too. My understanding is that Prop 65 provides a uniquely favorable position for the plaintiff as the plaintiff merely has to claim potential harm to the general public rather than to oneself. Additionally, I suspect one could go after one or a small number of corporations in a particular field so as to decrease the likelihood of cooperative retaliation. I'll do more research here though, I'd be interested to see if anyone doing this with Prop 65 has ever been criminally prosecuted.

 

[Elliot305]

All of these are excellent points! No pressure if you would rather not, but I would be interested to hear more about your experiences in this area if you're comfortable sharing them, and of course in whatever level of detail you deem appropriate. I know you probably meant your questions to be rhetorical, but I'll include my answers below in case that may provide further opportunities for discussion and I'll try to be as candid as possible.

1) Prepared to lean applicable laws/procedure?

To a certain degree, yes. I have a desk job with a lot of downtime, so I can usually dedicate several hours a day to researching a topic if I'm so inclined. Having said that, I have no formal legal training at all (work in IT), and ultimately I would only entertain actually doing this if I were represented by legal counsel. It's my understanding that there are many attorneys to choose from who specialize in Prop 65 lawsuits who will accept payment in the form of a percentage of the won settlement or judgement, and this is the type of representation I would personally want to look for.


2) Confident/competent enough to demand settlement over the phone from opposing counsel?

Confident, yeah. It takes a lot for anyone get under my skin in person or over the phone, and I'm quite capable of communicating my expectations to others firmly and clearly without being mean (cursing, ad hominem attacks, etc). As for competent? On my own, I would not describe myself as legally competent, so I think I would do my best to stick to making statements I know my counsel would support.


3) Countersuits against me?

That would suck. It briefly occurred to me that I could create an LLC to act as the official plaintiff so as to shield myself behind the corporate veil, but maybe that's getting a little deep. I imagine that could be construed as illegal or at least shady in its own right but I haven't really looked into it. Beyond that, I don't really have many assets to speak of so if I really painted myself into a corner I suppose I could declare bankruptcy, although if it happened for this reason my soon-to-be-wife might Epstein me.


4) Am I prepared to possibly be investigated for extortion?

Honestly not really, that would suck a lot too. My understanding is that Prop 65 provides a uniquely favorable position for the plaintiff as the plaintiff merely has to claim potential harm to the general public rather than to oneself. Additionally, I suspect one could go after one or a small number of corporations in a particular field so as to decrease the likelihood of cooperative retaliation. I'll do more research here though, I'd be interested to see if anyone doing this with Prop 65 has ever been criminally prosecuted.

Ah, I thought you were doing this pro se (on your own). If going with an attorney you would be mostly shielded. Not sure how that works with the settlement numbers though as you're giving a good portion to them (assuming you'd be part of a class rather than individual plaintiff).

My past experience/career was similar to what you're thinking of doing and it centered around demanding companies to provide me with their written internal do-not-call policy. Back then lots of firms and businesses did not have a written policy made available upon demand. As such it was a violation of the TCPA and I could claim $1500 per violation. That was just one type of violation though and most calls consisted of multiple violations, allowing me to claim $1500 times X violations. Anyway, if you're interested in the story, attached is a copy of my old book:

 

[JeffShm]

Very cool. I will give that a read!

 

[JeffShm]

Ah, I thought you were doing this pro se (on your own). If going with an attorney you would be mostly shielded. Not sure how that works with the settlement numbers though as you're giving a good portion to them (assuming you'd be part of a class rather than individual plaintiff).

My past experience/career was similar to what you're thinking of doing and it centered around demanding companies to provide me with their written internal do-not-call policy. Back then lots of firms and businesses did not have a written policy made available upon demand. As such it was a violation of the TCPA and I could claim $1500 per violation. That was just one type of violation though and most calls consisted of multiple violations, allowing me to claim $1500 times X violations. Anyway, if you're interested in the story, attached is a copy of my old book:

Digging the book so far. I actually have a debt collector coming after me for what I'm pretty sure is an illegitimate add-on to a medical bill (I paid the original amount I was told within a week of treatment, only to be assessed further charges after the fact), and I am now exploring the possibility of suing them for robo calling me which they have done multiple times. If I can get them on TCPA violations I could get up to $500 per offending call.

I'm now getting into the thick of all the telemarketer stuff which it sounds like you came to understand pretty thoroughly. I'm skimming this section a little bit just because telemarketers aren't in my crosshairs so much, but only because they aren't much of a thing anymore like they used to be. I think if I were to really go for it with this idea I'd need to educate myself more completely on the ins and outs of Prop 65. And to address a previous point, even assuming I did obtain legal representation, I would only do so as an individual and not as part of any particular class.

 

[JeffShm]

Ah, I thought you were doing this pro se (on your own). If going with an attorney you would be mostly shielded. Not sure how that works with the settlement numbers though as you're giving a good portion to them (assuming you'd be part of a class rather than individual plaintiff).

My past experience/career was similar to what you're thinking of doing and it centered around demanding companies to provide me with their written internal do-not-call policy. Back then lots of firms and businesses did not have a written policy made available upon demand. As such it was a violation of the TCPA and I could claim $1500 per violation. That was just one type of violation though and most calls consisted of multiple violations, allowing me to claim $1500 times X violations. Anyway, if you're interested in the story, attached is a copy of my old book:

That was quite a read! If you don't mind me asking, are you still doing this at all? I didn't see any passages in the book indicating that you'd hit a roadblock or were otherwise stopped from continuing with this. I imagine anyone sufficiently dedicated to making a living this way could continue to find opportunities for suits/settlements almost indefinitely.

Reading your story has opened my eyes to the possibility of many more kinds of statutory suits one could file if so inclined. Debt collectors, robo callers, spam emailers, probably many more.

 

[Elliot305]

That was quite a read! If you don't mind me asking, are you still doing this at all? I didn't see any passages in the book indicating that you'd hit a roadblock or were otherwise stopped from continuing with this. I imagine anyone sufficiently dedicated to making a living this way could continue to find opportunities for suits/settlements almost indefinitely.

Reading your story has opened my eyes to the possibility of many more kinds of statutory suits one could file if so inclined. Debt collectors, robo callers, spam emailers, probably many more.

Haven’t been involved in that for 14 years, moved into IM in 2006.

 

[theRevolt]

Keep in mind SLAPP suits (basically what @Elliot305 said above), that as long as they have the funds to sue they can even without any merit, just to make your life miserable ...

PS : Last week tonight had a fun segment about it if you want to have laugh while getting some insights into the subject (besides reading more on it)

 

[James2]

Nate, this is an international IM forum, not a California law one. I think you'd get better answers in a community that deals specifically with your subject.

 

[JeffShm]

Haven’t been involved in that for 14 years, moved into IM in 2006.

What ultimately compelled you to make that switch?

 

[Elliot305]

What ultimately compelled you to make that switch?

PM me if you have questions so we don’t keep bumping this thread unnecessarily.

 

[JeffShm]

PM me if you have questions so we don’t keep bumping this thread unnecessarily.

I’ve lurked here forever but only just made an account and it's too new to initiate a PM. If you'd be willing to PM me though that would be awesome.