Offshore company information?

[Scorpion Ghost]

So I looked around on BHW and there's not many threads about offshore companies and stuff like that.

My situation is that I'm making money online, paying no taxes. The money is basically not "legit," and I'm taking a big risk by doing that.

So I have 3 options.

1) Pay taxes locally - it's about 15% when everything adds up, and I have to have a goddamn accountant, and I'm not allowed to withdraw my money in USD or EUR but only the local currency, and I'm not happy about it all.

2) Don't pay taxes, flip everything to cryptos and evade

3) Go offshore - hopefully somewhere where taxes are low or no taxes at all, and also if I don't have to have an accountant and submit invoices and all that shit, it would be wonderful

I looked into option number 1. I don't like it...

I looked into option number 2. I prefer it because I get to keep more of my money, but most importantly it's less hassle! Once it's all set, it's set, and you do it the way you do it, and there's no ongoing government/law bullshit you have to go through, and justify everything and deal with everything.

I didn't look into option number 3. I plan on doing it soon. So I need some advice and opinions from you guys, I know a lot of you have your offshore companies and know about this kinda stuff?

p.s my income is, let's say $1,000+ per month net (but of course, I'm hoping it will increase). My business is fully online, selling Digital Products (mostly social media services).

 

[nakamura]

Hi mate,

Option 1 would be the easiest way. Just make sure you make it look like you just started. Like a noob or startup. Don't make people ask the wrong questions otherwise it might give you trouble.


Option 2 is not a real option. Sooner or later you will get caught. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in two years, but maybe within the next 10 years. It might work for a low income, but if you want to earn lots of money it won't work. Right now the world is more and more going into the direction, where everything is regulated, transparence, against tax fraud and "anti money laundering" etc. Can't recommend.

Option 3: Might be the best solution, but make sure you know what you are doing. There are many "tax heavens". Incorporating there is easier than you might think. Just make sure you know about the laws and also taxation. For myself I am about to incorporate in HK. Its not so much about the taxes in the first place, but more about the location, since I will do lots of work/transactions with chinese.

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

Hi mate,

Option 1 would be the easiest way. Just make sure you make it look like you just started. Like a noob or startup. Don't make people ask the from questions otherwise it might give you trouble.


Option 2 is not a real option. Sooner or later you will get caught. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in two years, but maybe within the next 10 years. It might work for a low income, but if you want to earn lots of money it won't work. Right now the world is more and more going into the direction, where everything is regulated, transparence, against tax fraud and "anti money laundering" etc. Can't recommend.

Option 3: Might be the best solution, but make sure you know what you are doing. There are many "tax heavens". Incorporating there is easier than you might think. Just make sure you know about the laws and also taxation. For myself I am about to incorporate in HK. Its not so much about the taxes in the first place, but more about the location, since I will do lots of work/transactions with chinese.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer.

Indeed, I feel the same way about option 2. You can get away with it for small amounts, but once you start banking big, it becomes a big problem. And let's not forget the possible criminal charges/the gov taking all you have when they figure you out/going to jail getting your salad tossed

The problem with Hong Kong, from my reading, is that you still have to do tax returns, like submit monthly or yearly invoices and whatnot. I REALLY don't want to do that. Not because I'm doing something shady, but because I don't want to have to have an accountant, and I don't want to be doing it myself either. Fuck that shit. I want simple things and peace of mind.

Another thing about Hong Kong (though this probably applies to most countries) is that you're not allowed to do business with other people/companies from Hong Kong. If you do, you'll still pay taxes. I just thought I mention it.

And if I may ask, what are the costs of getting set up, and then what are the monthly/yearly costs (accountant, taxes, etc) for what you're planning to do?

 

[nakamura]

The problem with Hong Kong, from my reading, is that you still have to do tax returns, like submit monthly or yearly invoices and whatnot. I REALLY don't want to do that. Not because I'm doing something shady, but because I don't want to have to have an accountant, and I don't want to be doing it myself either. Fuck that shit. I want simple things and peace of mind.

Another thing about Hong Kong (though this probably applies to most countries) is that you're not allowed to do business with other people/companies from Hong Kong. If you do, you'll still pay taxes. I just thought I mention it.

And if I may ask, what are the costs of getting set up, and then what are the monthly/yearly costs (accountant, taxes, etc) for what you're planning to do?

Yes, but in almost every country you have to do tax returns and all those burocracy stuff. Its also not as hard as it sounds. Pay under your company name, save the receipts, save the transactions. Not so hard at all. For everything else there are lots of softwares where you just enter the amount etc. You only have to do it once a year, by yourself or hire someone.

I know, usually every income you generate outside of HK you don't need to pay taxes. If you successfully made the tax exemption. Getting it can be hard and expensive. Otherwise the taxes are about 16,5%. Still depends on the income tho. My friend paid around 8% taxes last year. Its still MUCH less than he would pay in his own country, where he would pay around 30% or more.

About the costs: There are different packages. I would pay around $800 for setting it up, getting all documents and other stuff. Everything I need to have also for opening a business bank account.

The ongoing costs per year really depend on the transactions you have, what accountant you hire etc. In HK you need to renew the business license, virtual secretary etc. which would be a fix cost of around $400 per year (it can be more tho - depends).

As I said its mostly because of the location. I have been to HK by myself many times. I found it pretty solid and legit. Next to Shenzhen, where I would need to go many times tho. The tax system there is also much more easier than in my country.

Don't forget about another point. Depending on your business it can also distract lots of potential customers/other companies, when you incorporate in the Seychelles, Belize, Cayman Islands etc. which got quite a bad image. Often brought up together with scams or tax fraud tho. But this really depends on your business model. Right now if I would incorporate in Belize and someone from my home country would see that, they would definitely think "ohhh, tax heaven, tax fraud blablabla", which could also attract financial authorities/government to investigate me. Don't need this trouble.

 

[Makemeproguys]

Move to Dubai.. no taxes.. everything is cheap.. but basic commodities and accommodation is expensive.

 

[Deleted member 1161191]

Move to Dubai.. no taxes.. everything is cheap.. but basic commodities and accommodation is expensive.

Are you in dubai?

 

[nakamura]

Move to Dubai.. no taxes.. everything is cheap.. but basic commodities and accommodation is expensive.

I just took a look on incorporating in Dubai. Its kinda confusing with their onshore, offshore and free zones. For example a Dubai LLC requires 51% local shareholding, if its not about consulting, which is pretty odd. There are more than 15 free zones (even more to come), which are very specified on what kinda businesses are allowed to incorporate in there. For my understanding it makes sense to open a business in a Dubai free zone, if you are doing business with the local people/businesses in there.

It really needs an expert to figure for incorporating in Dubai. Countries like HK, Seychelles or Singapore are much easier with that without all the regulations, laws, rules or difficulties.

 

[Deleted member 1161191]

I just took a look on incorporating in Dubai. Its kinda confusing with their onshore, offshore and free zones. For example a Dubai LLC requires 51% local shareholding, if its not about consulting, which is pretty odd. There are more than 15 free zones (even more to come), which are very specified on what kinda businesses are allowed to incorporate in there. For my understanding it makes sense to open a business in a Dubai free zone, if you are doing business with the local people/businesses in there.

It really needs an expert to figure for incorporating in Dubai. Countries like HK, Seychelles or Singapore are much easier with that without all the regulations, laws, rules or difficulties.

It seems HK is the best (reputation is good too otherwise merchants won't issue you accounts for payment processing). We need to live in HK for 6 months in a year to fill taxes there, right?

 

[Makemeproguys]

I just took a look on incorporating in Dubai. Its kinda confusing with their onshore, offshore and free zones. For example a Dubai LLC requires 51% local shareholding, if its not about consulting, which is pretty odd. There are more than 15 free zones (even more to come), which are very specified on what kinda businesses are allowed to incorporate in there. For my understanding it makes sense to open a business in a Dubai free zone, if you are doing business with the local people/businesses in there.

It really needs an expert to figure for incorporating in Dubai. Countries like HK, Seychelles or Singapore are much easier with that without all the regulations, laws, rules or difficulties.

Yes you are right I agree with you.. if you have a partner then it can actually work out..

 

[nakamura]

It seems HK is the best (reputation is good too otherwise merchants won't issue you accounts for payment processing). We need to live in HK for 6 months in a year to fill taxes there, right?

You mean personal income taxes? Yes. However, you can just incorporate there without living in there. Some of my friends moved from their home country and just go to life in Thailand, Bali, somewhere in Europe (Spain, Italy, Malta etc.) and don't pay personal taxes. Another way is to use the companies money on your behalf as much as possible. Booking flights, hotels, leasing/renting cars, some dinner etc. just on the business behalf. It can also save you taxes and money, since you don't spend money from your personal account.

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

Yes, but in almost every country you have to do tax returns and all those burocracy stuff. Its also not as hard as it sounds. Pay under your company name, save the receipts, save the transactions. Not so hard at all. For everything else there are lots of softwares where you just enter the amount etc. You only have to do it once a year, by yourself or hire someone.

I know, usually every income you generate outside of HK you don't need to pay taxes. If you successfully made the tax exemption. Getting it can be hard and expensive. Otherwise the taxes are about 16,5%. Still depends on the income tho. My friend paid around 8% taxes last year. Its still MUCH less than he would pay in his own country, where he would pay around 30% or more.

About the costs: There are different packages. I would pay around $800 for setting it up, getting all documents and other stuff. Everything I need to have also for opening a business bank account.

The ongoing costs per year really depend on the transactions you have, what accountant you hire etc. In HK you need to renew the business license, virtual secretary etc. which would be a fix cost of around $400 per year (it can be more tho - depends).

As I said its mostly because of the location. I have been to HK by myself many times. I found it pretty solid and legit. Next to Shenzhen, where I would need to go many times tho. The tax system there is also much more easier than in my country.

Don't forget about another point. Depending on your business it can also distract lots of potential customers/other companies, when you incorporate in the Seychelles, Belize, Cayman Islands etc. which got quite a bad image. Often brought up together with scams or tax fraud tho. But this really depends on your business model. Right now if I would incorporate in Belize and someone from my home country would see that, they would definitely think "ohhh, tax heaven, tax fraud blablabla", which could also attract financial authorities/government to investigate me. Don't need this trouble.

I was reading this - https://nomadlist.com/forum/t/whats-the-best-place-to-incorporate-an-online-business/6711

Guy says: I really want to avoid paperwork and book keeping. I hate it.

That's my soul brother right there. I fucking hate it too! I understand there's paperwork involved and all that kinda stuff, but the least the better, even if I pay a little more, fuck it, get the paperwork hell away from me

Yeah yeah, pay under your company name, save the receipt, save the transactions, give them to your accountant, use a software write down the amounts and the dates and the descriptions, and spread your buttcheeks while you're at it so you can get FUCKED in the fucking head. And it just keeps piling up and piling up until your life is just one big house with the letters BUREAUCRATIC HELL written on the door.

I can't live like that. I want to fly freeeeee

Renewing your business license is not a problem, makes sense. But what's that about the virtual secretary? You're forced to have a virtual secretary? That doesn't sound right. What?

Yeah I know these tax havens get a bad rep, but just because you have a company there doesn't mean you're doing something illegal. I just want to reduce my taxes and reduce the paperwork I have to deal with, other than that I want everything to be legit and above board. And if the government wants to devote time and resources to investigate me, be my guest. And as far as people from my home country, or any country finding I have an offshore company and thinking something negative about it, well, fuck em and the hole they crawled out of

I mean, they didn't think think anything when I was starving, but they gonna think something now? I don't see why I should care. I'll fucking tattoo it on my forehead. Yes, I have an offshore company. Yes, I pay very less taxes than you do. Yes, I'm smart. Yes, deal with it. With all due respect

And the customers thinking twice about paying me when they see my company is in a tax haven or whatever... Well, I guess I feel about it the same way I feel about customers who can only pay me with Paypal. Have a wonderful day, bye

But anyway, I haven't decided what I'm gonna do yet. But generally speaking that's how I feel about the situation. Reduce taxes, reduce paperwork, be legit, have a wonderful life

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

Move to Dubai.. no taxes.. everything is cheap.. but basic commodities and accommodation is expensive.

Yeah, I don't wanna move to Dubai, so that won't work for me.

But I actually thought Dubai is CRAZY expensive to live there. Have I been misinformed?

It seems HK is the best (reputation is good too otherwise merchants won't issue you accounts for payment processing). We need to live in HK for 6 months in a year to fill taxes there, right?

You touched on something important there. Merchant accounts, payment processors, Paypals, Payoneers, and the gang.

Who can say which of these offshore countries are best for low taxes, not a lot of paperwork, not too hard to get a bank account, and is cool to make a Paypal/Payoneer/etc accounts for your company?

You mean personal income taxes? Yes. However, you can just incorporate there without living in there. Some of my friends moved from their home country and just go to life in Thailand, Bali, somewhere in Europe (Spain, Italy, Malta etc.) and don't pay personal taxes. Another way is to use the companies money on your behalf as much as possible. Booking flights, hotels, leasing/renting cars, some dinner etc. just on the business behalf. It can also save you taxes and money, since you don't spend money from your personal account.

I actually hate that company trip. That little complication that has to be added between me and my money. There is no company, there is no company's money, there's only me! It's my money, my business, mine.

So when you say use the company's money to pay for stuff, it's like, I mean, in my mind it's just my money.

I sell X for $1
You buy X for $1
I have $1

The end

Everything in between those 3 stages is just an unnecessary bullshit I have to go through because the world is overly regulated and policed.

For me, I have no life. I don't book flights, I don't stay in hotels, I don't lease/rent cars, I don't eat. So... I just want to make money and then take the cash, and sleep with it... to keep me warm <3

 

[MisterF]

Dubai is as expensive or as cheap as you want to make it.

Invest irrespective in a good accountant / tax advisor, it may cost you $kks a year but they should be able to save you that in taxes and keep you out of jail.

Look for a non dom arrangement, if you don't want to move to another country.

 

[Deleted member 1161191]

Yeah, I don't wanna move to Dubai, so that won't work for me.

But I actually thought Dubai is CRAZY expensive to live there. Have I been misinformed?



You touched on something important there. Merchant accounts, payment processors, Paypals, Payoneers, and the gang.

Who can say which of these offshore countries are best for low taxes, not a lot of paperwork, not too hard to get a bank account, and is cool to make a Paypal/Payoneer/etc accounts for your company?



I actually hate that company trip. That little complication that has to be added between me and my money. There is no company, there is no company's money, there's only me! It's my money, my business, mine.

So when you say use the company's money to pay for stuff, it's like, I mean, in my mind it's just my money.

I sell X for $1
You buy X for $1
I have $1

The end

Everything in between those 3 stages is just an unnecessary bullshit I have to go through because the world is overly regulated and policed.

For me, I have no life. I don't book flights, I don't stay in hotels, I don't lease/rent cars, I don't eat. So... I just want to make money and then take the cash, and sleep with it... to keep me warm <3

Paypal would think twice or thrice (or more - more chances of decline) before allowing business account to a "tax heaven" company.

No fucks given to people - whatever they think. But what about banks?

You got money into your "offshore company" - now you can't spend or put that money into your home country because (you'd have to pay taxes). Now you need to pay "yourself" a salary as a employee and then that might get taxed into your home country.

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

Dubai is as expensive or as cheap as you want to make it.

Invest irrespective in a good accountant / tax advisor, it may cost you $kks a year but they should be able to save you that in taxes and keep you out of jail.

Look for a non dom arrangement, if you don't want to move to another country.

Yes, I want a non dom arrengement for sure.

$kks a year? Why a year? I mean, it's gonna cost to get set up and everything, maybe learn a few things about how to renew it and keep track of what I need to be keeping track of, and from that point on just bank.

I don't even know if what I want exists. Nothing can ever be simple.

 

[nakamura]

I mean, they didn't think think anything when I was starving, but they gonna think something now? I don't see why I should care. I'll fucking tattoo it on my forehead. Yes, I have an offshore company. Yes, I pay very less taxes than you do. Yes, I'm smart. Yes, deal with it. With all due respect

And the customers thinking twice about paying me when they see my company is in a tax haven or whatever... Well, I guess I feel about it the same way I feel about customers who can only pay me with Paypal. Have a wonderful day, bye

You know how it is? Everyone wants a fucking piece of the cake. The people/government see you are making big money? Guess what is going to happen next: You'll get a letter. Thats how it is. If you have nothing, they don't care. If you got something, they want something.

About the reputation: The location is also important to get a merchant account. Some payment provider don't accept countries like Belize etc.

By the way: I feel the same way about the burocracy and all those stuff. I hate it and I don't want it. Its just a waste of time. I am doing business online, why should I explain anything to any government or something like this. Its not their fucking business anyway. Maybe we should make our own country, tax system etc.

About the company stuff on your second reply: Yes, but see it also in a positive way. If you are doing stuff in the name of your company, it is not you who will get fucked if something is wrong. Your company is like a own juristic person.

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

Paypal would think twice or thrice (or more - more chances of decline) before allowing business account to a "tax heaven" company.

No fucks given to people - whatever they think. But what about banks?

You got money into your "offshore company" - now you can't spend or put that money into your home country because (you'd have to pay taxes). Now you need to pay "yourself" a salary as a employee and then that might get taxed into your home country.

They wouldn't think twice about a USA company. I know there's a few good options for USA too where you can get away with less taxes as a non USA native who doesn't live there. And not only that, but you would be have the entire payment processor army and merchant accounts and banks at your disposal with your USA company, or LLC, or whatever it is.

So I guess there's one "offshore" option. I mean, I guess it's not offshore for US citizens, but it is offshore for me

Okay, that last bit is a bit of an issue. I guess maybe register a company in a country that has that agreement about double taxation with my country, that way I'm taxed there, and not taxed here. But yeah, that's one of the things to consider. I'm gonna ask that when I go to talk to one of the local companies that offer offshore services to people. That's one of the key things I need to ask about.

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

You know how it is? Everyone wants a fucking piece of the cake. The people/government see you are making big money? Guess what is going to happen next: You'll get a letter. Thats how it is. If you have nothing, they don't care. If you got something, they want something.

About the reputation: The location is also important to get a merchant account. Some payment provider don't accept countries like Belize etc.

By the way: I feel the same way about the burocracy and all those stuff. I hate it and I don't want it. Its just a waste of time. I am doing business online, why should I explain anything to any government or something like this. Its not their fucking business anyway. Maybe we should make our own country, tax system etc.

About the company stuff on your second reply: Yes, but see it also in a positive way. If you are doing stuff in the name of your company, it is not you who will get fucked if something is wrong. Your company is like a own juristic person.

Yeah but if I'm legit, doing everything legally as far as my offshore situation is concerned and as far as my country is concerned, let them send all the letters they want. I'll provide them with all the info they want, they'll see everything is white and legit, and they can fuck off to wherever donkeys from the government come from. And if they think what I'm doing is immoral or something, that's not my concern. As long as it's not illegal, everything is right with the world

See? Everything is right with the world...

Yes, merchant accounts and payment processors. That's a HUGE thing that would influence my decision heavily.

I love the part about burocracy. I feel exactly the same way. Maybe we should! Let's make our own country bro, I'm sick of this shit! REVOLUTIOOOON! (admins gonna give me strikes now for being all political and shiaaat)

Maybe I'm being naive, but let me get fucked if something goes wrong. I'm the company, it's ME, all of it, I take full responsibility. If someone chokes on the Twitter follower I sent their profile, let them sue me, and win!

 

[luke6966]

no point in complicated structures at that income level, pay the 15% (it's quite good actually) for now. Once you're earning more then consider creating a company in a better tax jurisdiction

 

[Scorpion Ghost]

no point in complicated structures at that income level, pay the 15% (it's quite good actually) for now. Once you're earning more then consider creating a company in a better tax jurisdiction

Maybe I want to set up a complicated structure now, now that I have the time and energy and will to do it, so that I don't have to run to do it later when scaling my business and my head is on fire.