Why crypto currencies will never kill FIAT

[.:mAestro:.]

I hope you're trolling like the OP.

Only central banks can print money - those owned by a government.

Retail banks and investment banks (those owned by rich shareholders) can't print money (unless they have permission from a central bank). Even then, how much they can print in their own names is tightly controlled by the central bank.

The Euro and the Dollar are backed by the guarantee of the countries that issue them. Those countries are effectively pledging to use the labour of their countrymen to produce goods and services equivalent to the value. You might not think that the word of the US or the EU is worth anything, but most people do, and that keeps the system working.

Governments do fail, which is why some fiat money of some countries isn't worth anything compared to other currencies. But if a government doesn't have enough trust from people, it usually issues money backed by another country instead.

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything at all.

I just had a decent laugh
Please, continue to educate us.

 

[healzer]

I do not believe crypto will replace fiat currencies in the next decade.
But we should not speculate what might happen beyond that.

I don't see any value in crypto, other than it being a great investment.
But whether it will solve our financial problems, I don't think so.
So allow me to warn newbies who've watched too many YouTube videos and argue otherwise.

But be warned, blockchain is a different story.
And what blockchain can do for our society and economy in the next decade is tremendously valuable.

 

[DonSchlessinger]

I hope you're trolling like the OP.

Only central banks can print money - those owned by a government.

Retail banks and investment banks (those owned by rich shareholders) can't print money (unless they have permission from a central bank). Even then, how much they can print in their own names is tightly controlled by the central bank.

The Euro and the Dollar are backed by the guarantee of the countries that issue them. Those countries are effectively pledging to use the labour of their countrymen to produce goods and services equivalent to the value. You might not think that the word of the US or the EU is worth anything, but most people do, and that keeps the system working.

Governments do fail, which is why some fiat money of some countries isn't worth anything compared to other currencies. But if a government doesn't have enough trust from people, it usually issues money backed by another country instead.

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything at all.

You’re arguement was compelling until your final statement.

The line between investment/retail banks vs central banks was very blurred during the 2008-2009 recession. Yes they may be separate entities, but the central banks were forced to promote investment/retail banks best interests (and most likely the common person’s best interests) to prevent a big depression.

Your arguement why USD and EUR currencies have value is the same reason I argue bitcoin has value. Bitcoin has people across the world pledging to mine, promote the software, and innovate and improve on the open source tech. It’s backed by this population, it’s worth what this population is willing to pay for it. This population’s labor is the fact that they are constantly trying to improve the tech, constantly mining, and constantly promoting it, the same way that I beleive in my USD because the government is constantly promoting innovation, proving goods and services to its citizens and the rest of the work, and a majority of people beleive in it.

So are you arguing that this population doesn’t exist? You’re delusional.

 

[Javardo69]

I hope you're trolling like the OP.

Only central banks can print money - those owned by a government.

Retail banks and investment banks (those owned by rich shareholders) can't print money (unless they have permission from a central bank). Even then, how much they can print in their own names is tightly controlled by the central bank.

The Euro and the Dollar are backed by the guarantee of the countries that issue them. Those countries are effectively pledging to use the labour of their countrymen to produce goods and services equivalent to the value. You might not think that the word of the US or the EU is worth anything, but most people do, and that keeps the system working.

Governments do fail, which is why some fiat money of some countries isn't worth anything compared to other currencies. But if a government doesn't have enough trust from people, it usually issues money backed by another country instead.

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything at all.

bitcoin its backed by the nodes and miners on it, also their blockchain and scarcity of the coins left.

 

[bartosimpsonio]

I hope you're trolling like the OP.

Sorry to bust your hopes.

Only central banks can print money - those owned by a government.

Wrong. Through QE private banks get permission from the FED and ECB to print money.

banks (those owned by rich shareholders) can't print money (unless they have permission from a central bank).

Oops looks like you just contradicted yourself. That's right: with "permission" from central banks. In reality both the FED/ECB and private banks are run by the same people. They freely print money.

The Euro and the Dollar are backed by the guarantee of the countries that issue them. Those countries are effectively pledging to use the labour of their countrymen to produce goods and services equivalent to the value. You might not think that the word of the US or the EU is worth anything, but most people do, and that keeps the system working.

This is exactly right. The US and EU are freely printing money for bankers. If this money ever reached the masses it'd cause inflation, but here's the catch: the money is printed by bankers for bankers only. They buy shares and bonds and futures and this money never reaches the masses. This inflates the stock market so you, the average citizen, cannot compete with them. Inflation never happens, but bankers have printed free wealth for themselves.

Then comes the part which you nailed down correctly: the FED and ECB put YOUR work as guarantee for all this printed money. This is the very definition of a ponzi scheme. They print money for themselves and the new generation guarantees the throughput. That's why your grandfather could buy a new home and car with minimal wage and millenials can barely pay college. Bankers robbed you.

We are living the biggest ponzi scheme ever made up of fractional reserve banking and quantitative easing(which itself is probably the biggest fraud ever invented).

Governments do fail, which is why some fiat money of some countries isn't worth anything compared to other currencies. But if a government doesn't have enough trust from people, it usually issues money backed by another country instead.

That's the theory, but that's not how it works. In practice, you have strategic goods tied to one specific currency, namely the dollar. Petroleum, gold and foreign exchange are pegged to the dollar. So even if nobody trusts the 5 people making decisions at the FED, there really isn't anything you can do about it, they own you. So it's not about trust, it is about oligopoly. 12 people hold 99% of the world's wealth because they are free to print money.

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything at all.

And neither is the US dollar. The US government has absolutely nothing to give you in exchange for a dollar bill. Nothing, not even vapor. Young people are paying for fractional reserve by working more and more to keep the system afloat. The moment people realize this is the moment we start exiting the FED ponzi scheme.

 

[.:mAestro:.]

Wrong. Through QE private banks get permission from the FED and ECB to print money.

One like is not enough for this post.
Thank you bartosimpsonio for educating and opening eyes to the rest of the members here.

 

[Unreliable Witness]

It would be easier to explain to Harold Camping that the end of the world isn't going to happen anytime soon.

If you think that Mario Draghi is somehow exerting direct influence over how the Skipton Building Society invests its depositors' savings then there isn't a lot I can write that will change your minds.

If the banks are so unstoppable, you should be buying their shares.

 

[bartosimpsonio]

If the banks are so unstoppable, you should be buying their shares.

That's what those 12 families did with all the printed money.

If you buy now you're just feeding the ponzi. They need a constant influx of buyers to keep the system alive after all.

 

[virtualbyron]

For those who don't know the banking system, here some facts:

• The sum of all the debt is bigger than all the money in the world.
• All country borrows from the banks just to be able to repay the bank interest, if they do not succeed in time > interest increases so they borrow more and print more (cyclic crisis business model)
• When the government can not pay the citizens have to do it.
• The federal reserve is not federal.

And much more!

 

[Henry Cooper]

If you buy now you're just feeding the ponzi. They need a constant influx of buyers to keep the system alive after all.

Isn't that exactly what happens to bitcoins right now, after they locked out all the stupid-money coming from the paid advertisement channels?

 

[IG Professor]

I remember people posting the same posts when BTC was 3$. I used to agree with them, but today, when I see BTC at 6000/20K I am not agree.

 

[royserpa]

I am using crypto for receiving payments because many people likes it and pays using crypto but after year of active using, I think it will never kill real currencies because:

NO REAL VALUE
Nobody can guarantee value of crypto currency. It's not connected to stocks, real monetary system, real goods like oil, gold, etc.

HUGE ENERGY USAGE
To generate crypto currencies, we are using huge energy, more than small country needs. It's wasting of resources.

QUANTUM COMPUTERS ON HORIZON
Not now, not in one year but soon or later we will have explosion of quantum computers and their computing powers, every crypto algorithm will fall in few hours. We need something new, bulletproof solution for quantum computers and NO, quantum computers cannot encrypt keys to stop decryption by another quantum computer. Everything will be broken in minutes.

GOVERMENTS
You don't know but goverments can easily kill crypto currencies if they want. Banks will not work with crypto, you will not find any ATM, ISPs will block every payment processor. It will stay in dark web but not exchangeable to fiats.

PAYMENT PROCESSING
Pay for pizza? Ok, then restaurant will give you pizza tomorrow when they get enough network confirmations.

SCAMS
They are thousands scams arround crypto: ICO, fake coins, ponzi schemes, fraud advertisement and much more

We can enjoy crypto now but when you see something bad, run as fast you can.

Just ride the waves, dude. Thats the golden opportunity in crypto

 

[seogiantking]

Crypto is just a asset for online sell/purchase, just like paypal. It's never gonna replace fiat.

 

[Unreliable Witness]

For those who don't know the banking system, here some facts:

• The sum of all the debt is bigger than all the money in the world.
• All country borrows from the banks just to be able to repay the bank interest, if they do not succeed in time > interest increases so they borrow more and print more (cyclic crisis business model)
• When the government can not pay the citizens have to do it.
• The federal reserve is not federal.

And much more!

Obviously written by someone who doesn't know the banking system.

 

[virtualbyron]

Obviously written by someone who doesn't know the banking system.

Obviously written by someone who doesn't know who know the banking system.

Feel free to contest any of the facts stated above.

 

[Entrepreneur0508]

Since Nixon Ends Convertibility of US Dollars to Gold paper money become printable as much as they want so no real value anymore.. cryptocurrency is our freedom we print our own moneys but still there is a lot of issues.

 

[bartosimpsonio]

Isn't that exactly what happens to bitcoins right now, after they locked out all the stupid-money coming from the paid advertisement channels?

No because the Bitcoin supply is fixed and transparent. Every Bitcoin must be mined, there is no way to print Bitcoins at a different rate than 12.5 BTC per 10 minutes. They're always mined at a constant rate, regardless of how many new people join the game. For it to be a ponzi it'd require exponential people joining the game, which is not Bitcoin's case.

This contrasts with the FED's game, where they print money at bankers' request and 99.99% of people have no idea about it, the transparency is provided in a language nobody understands, using terms like "quantitative easing" which is a fancy way of saying "armed robbery of the citizens".

The Euro and the US dollar right now are the biggest ponzi in the history of mankind.

 

[zebrahat]

Bartsimpsonio has made the best points, I'll just throw in some miscellany:

"NO REAL VALUE"
The value of crypto is established by clear demand in the market for a medium of exchange that is not controlled by the banks or governments. That demand is real, so the value of crypto in serving that demand is real. It is based on intangible value, not tangible value like gold or other goods, but it does not have to be connected to tangible value to be real.

"HUGE ENERGY USAGE"
Most users of crypto are not active miners using mining to earn, beyond operating their local wallets to do transactions, so they are not using huge energy.

"QUANTUM COMPUTERS ON HORIZON"
Already solved. Developers are already implementing post-quantum cryptography. This hash tag based crypto will be the basis of upcoming generations of blockchains, and can also run on pre-quantum computer systems. Quantum resistant cryptography systems are being implemented faster than the quantum hardware. See:
https://singularityhub.com/2017/11/...-technology/#sm.00029gff9x8tezp11ml2qdxyooy11

"GOVERMENTS"
If governments could kill crypto they would have done it by now. They can't, because as decentralized open source software running on a peer network, it's not subject to shutdowns, seizures or court orders. There are already BTC ATMs, and most ISPs do not block crypto. The OP is confusing crypto with previous generation alternative processors that could be blocked because they were centralized or third party run, thus more easily subject to government intervention.

"PAYMENT PROCESSING"
As noted in other replies, there are many vendors who are accepting crypto.

"SCAMS"
As noted elsewhere, fiat money is the mothership of scams, both as being a debt-based Ponzi in and of itself, and because 95% of scams are done using the fiat systems. Crypto does not have try to replace fiat, it simply expects to be a resilient alternative. Fiat will more likely ultimately fail all by itself, with or without crypto.

 

[Henry Cooper]

No because the Bitcoin supply is fixed and transparent. Every Bitcoin must be mined, there is no way to print Bitcoins at a different rate than 12.5 BTC per 10 minutes. They're always mined at a constant rate, regardless of how many new people join the game. For it to be a ponzi it'd require exponential people joining the game, which is not Bitcoin's case.

So you are thinking, cutting of the stream of stupid investors (aka stupid-money), that have no underlying understanding of the technology or the future of it, does not play are role in the big price changes we are seeing? For something to rise in price there needs to be more relative demand then supply. Cutting off the stupid-money by reducing the exposure of getting-rich gurus and products (that spend millions to get into the face of the average consumer) could be seen as a cut of demand.

Since you seem to be experienced in the field I wonder what do you think is the capital ratio between: A) Early investors B) Wave and Short-Term Traders and C) Average Consumers that want to get rich and see this as if they would invest into the garage version of google. Additionally I wonder who do you think is paying for the profits that have been made with Bitcoins (a currency that is not attached to value, like our day to day money) in the end of the day (aka "The moment the song stops playing and no seats are left).

Also I am not sure if your answer was directly intended for me, since I did not use FIAT money in any of my question or arguments. @bartosimpsonio also thank you for taking time to answer to the above questions, if you find time. Please do not refer to FIAT regarding those questions, since I am sincerely interested in your objective opinion on the crypto-coin market (not FIAT vs CRYPTO-COIN market)

 

[bartosimpsonio]

So you are thinking, cutting of the stream of stupid investors (aka stupid-money), that have no underlying understanding of the technology or the future of it, does not play are role in the big price changes we are seeing? For something to rise in price there needs to be more relative demand then supply. Cutting off the stupid-money by reducing the exposure of getting-rich gurus and products (that spend millions to get into the face of the average consumer) could be seen as a cut of demand.

Since you seem to be experienced in the field I wonder what do you think is the capital ratio between: A) Early investors B) Wave and Short-Term Traders and C) Average Consumers that want to get rich and see this as if they would invest into the garage version of google. Additionally I wonder who do you think is paying for the profits that have been made with Bitcoins (a currency that is not attached to value, like our day to day money) in the end of the day (aka "The moment the song stops playing and no seats are left).

Also I am not sure if your answer was directly intended for me, since I did not use FIAT money in any of my question or arguments. @bartosimpsonio also thank you for taking time to answer to the above questions, if you find time. Please do not refer to FIAT regarding those questions, since I am sincerely interested in your objective opinion on the crypto-coin market (not FIAT vs CRYPTO-COIN market)

I think that a large margin of the crypto prices in December 2017 were artificially pumped by a few players. Once their game was discovered they were forced to cover because authorities were onto them. This explains the $20k to $10k drop. Then the mtgox guy sold half a billion which caused further drop. Then the ad bans by all 3 banker-owned corporations at once: Facebook, Google and Twitter all three banned cryptos at once in a concerted effort to please their banking overlords.

They thought these measures would kill cryptos, but Bitcoin remains above $7K despite these nuclear bombs dropped on it.

I think when it recovers it'll fly past the last all time high when people see the banking fraud in fiat and that Bitcoin is here to stay.