Where does the bull market actually come from?

Ensili

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Hello everyone,

looking at the current development of the crypto market as well as the countless messages of any type of media outlet, I can not help but wonder where the bull market is supposed to be coming from this time in order to get back to ATHs, let alone reach prices beyond.

Let me first clarify that I am an absolute proponent of not only blockchain as a technology but cryptocurrency as well. I understand that it is still full of flaws but I can see its superior technology prevail in the long run, one way or the other.

However, I feel like the majority (still) invested is currently asking the wrong questions with regard to a potential price recovery of total market cap to ATHs.
Most of the discussion is about bear vs bull market but where does the majority of a bull market actually come from?

Until end of last year the mass market was not yet involved in cryptocurrency. Once crypto experienced mass adoption for the first time, we saw prices and market cap reach ATHs until January this year.
Since then we have seen prices of even the top cryptos cut in half - market cap as of writing this thread is hovering around $300b give or take. ATH was over $800b.

Where are $500b (and more) supposed to come from? Let's go through the different options I can currently come up with:
1.) Most importantly, the mass market. Well, this market is a dumb, uneducated but most influential collective that moves pretty much everything. Let's face it - it doesn't care about the potential use cases and technology (yet). It is heavily perception driven and crypto is largely perceived as an investment; high risk/ high reward - not as a long-term technology with practical use cases. Cryptocurrencies' mass market success has been based on hype and FOMO not on rational thinking.

This perception is detrimental right now because the mass market doesn't forgive and forget easily. It has seen prices decrease to a level where the overall message conveyed by mass media albeit populist holds true. "Crypto is a highly volatile market and you will probably lose all your money!"

How can the larger majority forget that people lost actual property by taking out second mortgages?! Especially because media thankfully picks up any negative press about crypto as quickly as they can. It doesn't matter that those individuals were stupid enough to do so - all that matters is that the mass market most likely won't make the same mistake twice.

So my question for this option is: Is there still a mass market that has not yet adopted to cryptocurrency? Maybe countries that weren't as invested since the first mass adoption phase last couple of months.
Is there still the possibility that the previously invested mass market is going to reinvest albeit all the arguments speaking against it?

2.) Second option I see is that we will see ATHs again due to institutions, banks, large companies, major investors, countries jumping into cryptocurrency. This is obviously already happening but on a larger scale in the future.
I guess it might make the market less volatile but at the same time, wouldn't that development be against pretty much everything cryptocurrency stands for? Large amounts of total market cap in the hands of the powerful 1%? (Not that this shift is already happening anyway).

3.) Another option I can see while market cap may or may not recover, current market value is going to be redistributed between top cryptocurrencies away from altcoins without any major following and more importantly without any practical use cases. This is something the larger majority of "experts" in the crypto space (from what I have seen) view as a realistic development.

I guess most realistically all of these options will develop simultaneously in the future - at least in my opinion. But will it be enough for the bull market to return to ATHs and beyond?

Another psychological factor I want to quickly point out is how the market cap/ crypto price is currently decreasing.
Right now it is not necessarily perceived as a volatile crash but as a slowly depleting market. Which is worse in my opinion because it leads to people being less involved in any positive development as well which in return results in what we are currently seeing with most coins. Prices decrease by 10% only to increase again by 5%, they decrease by 15% and increase by 7%.

In the long run without any major attention towards positive developments in the crypto market (and it has to be big news with great impact) which of these options above (or others I didn't think about) will be able to shift the current downward momentum?
Will it take months or years for an actual bull market to return?

Obviously most of what I've written is up for debate and I'd very much appreciate any insight by more knowledgeable people in this space and from members of this forum that value constructive discussions over name calling and absolutes.

I am for now a bit dumbstruck by what is currently happening and I sincerely hope that I am wrong for the most part in my assessment.


I am not a native speaker and I wrote my thoughts down without any structure behind it, so I hope I was able to get my point across.


Have a great day everyone,

Ensili
 
Taking that we're at 300b mc right now, we don't need 500b to reach a 800b mc. The sum can be a lot less. This is what I wanted to add to your post :D

But yeah, you've got it right and maybe someone more experienced needs to expand on what specific things need to occur to drive this market up again.
 
Taking that we're at 300b mc right now, we don't need 500b to reach a 800b mc. The sum can be a lot less. This is what I wanted to add to your post :D

But yeah, you've got it right and maybe someone more experienced needs to expand on what specific things need to occur to drive this market up again.

Good point! Thank you. I am always forgetting about that.
 
fat whales wallets are getting fatter and fatter, that must tell something about if this is going to crash or not.
 
Nice analysis mate.

Eventually crypto market is as volatile as it can get.
Pretty much it is gambling.

Thinking to start day trading instead of holding for the long gone 50x. If the market continues to go downward we will kiss good bye even x10 as well.
Few ICOs in the past months managed to get an increase over the ICO price and stay there.
Even Credits with their marketing and promise of 1 mill transactions barely got somewhere around x2 these days.
 
That's not how marketcap works. A single 1 billion dollar buy order would probably send it back to $800 billion in a few hours.
 
That's not how marketcap works. A single 1 billion dollar buy order would probably send it back to $800 billion in a few hours.

Right. As I replied to Bentrepreneur using market cap is probably not the best metric to visualize the differences between where we are right now and where we have get to (again) for a healthy recovery.

Still I think the general message I am trying to convey holds true. Demand by the masses is plummeting, the hype is over for good - at least for now. What would have to happen realistically for it to pick up and reach a longer lasting bull run again?
 
How can the larger majority forget that people lost actual property by taking out second mortgages?!

You forget that people vary in their risk aversion. So if it starts climbing again, the profit opportunity will be sought after. And once that reaches a threshold, the mass will start moving again.

Will it take months or years for an actual bull market to return?

Without a major event, years.
 
It all depends.
An example:

Take the Standard & Poor's 500, or just the S&P, an American stock market index based on the market capitalizations of 500 large companies having common stock listed on the NYSE or NASDAQ.

Follow me here:

1. S&P Market Cap: $24 trillion!!

2. Cryptocurrency Market Cap: $325.840.247.623 at the moment

1 / 2 = 80

Meaning that the current Cryptocurrency Market Cap only represents 1.25%
relative to the current S&P Market Cap.

Good to know: the S&P represents 2.5% of GLOBAL stock market capitalization.

So if the the Cryptocurrency Market Cap multiplies by factor 80 and
reaches the same heights as the S&P Market Cap, it will still only
represent 2.5% of GLOBAL stock market capitalization.

Knowing that Blockchain technology and digital assets/currencies
will be a everywhere around us in a few years from now, I bet
you can see the immense growth opportunities here now.
 
Extruser its right and bitcoin whales are still accumulating more and more bitcoin, this is not the time to sale.
 
You forget that people vary in their risk aversion. So if it starts climbing again, the profit opportunity will be sought after. And once that reaches a threshold, the mass will start moving again.



Without a major event, years.

Good insight. Thanks! I still see the mass market as one collective. While they probably differ in risk aversion if you look at the individual, compared to someone with higher affinity towards cryptocurrency the mass market is still generally less risk averse or more importantly gets scared far easier. So even if a larger chunk of the mass market were more risk averse during hype, they have been burned now and as you said it might take months to years for perception to change again.
Comparatively I think it will take more than "just" a few positive news to move the consensus pro crypto in the long term again. That is not to say that we won't see a short bull run in the meantime of course.

The example of second mortgages is an extreme but I have seen several people using it as an example when they describe their cautiousness towards crypto since February. I guess the mass market tends towards populist views - especially when they make uneducated decisions.

Still I hope I am wrong of course.
 
It all depends.
An example:

Take the Standard & Poor's 500, or just the S&P, an American stock market index based on the market capitalizations of 500 large companies having common stock listed on the NYSE or NASDAQ.

Follow me here:

1. S&P Market Cap: $24 trillion!!

2. Cryptocurrency Market Cap: $325.840.247.623 at the moment

1 / 2 = 80

Meaning that the current Cryptocurrency Market Cap only represents 1.25%
relative to the current S&P Market Cap.

Good to know: the S&P represents 2.5% of GLOBAL stock market capitalization.

So if the the Cryptocurrency Market Cap multiplies by factor 80 and
reaches the same heights as the S&P Market Cap, it will still only
represent 2.5% of GLOBAL stock market capitalization.

Knowing that Blockchain technology and digital assets/currencies
will be a everywhere around us in a few years from now, I bet
you can see the immense growth opportunities here now.

I generally agree with your assessment but we are talking about two different questions here.

I never said that the opportunities and room for growth weren't massive in the future. In fact your example provided is a great summary about why we have such great potential in front of us.
My questions are intended to provide answers to WHAT will be needed to reach such growth and WHEN can we expect to achieve it, conservatively speaking.

In my opinion these are important questions to be asked because I see majority of the crypto community not answer them.
Everyone talks about how another long bull run is needed but most don't seem to ask the question - where is this bull run supposed to come from realistically?
 
First of all most cryptocurrency market cap is fake.

Secondly, 70% of this fake market cap is traded in Tether.

This explains why $400 million from the mtgox guy crashed the market. Those hundreds of billions of market cap are mostly fake. If most people tried to cash their BTC they would not be able to.

Having said this, neither could you cash your US dollars either. Most US dollars are fake too due to fractional reserve banking. If everyone attempted to "withdraw" their cash, the system would go under.

The FED creates fake money and people live by this fake money. Think about it this way: money is a number on a database. What's stopping a big bank with 200 billion in reserves to simply make up $1 million for the weekend parties? Nothing. They can freely do that. I've asked friends in IT departments within banks, they say there is nothing stopping you from adding $1 million to an account with several billion in it.

The main fear of cryptocurrencies is not that they become a payment system. Banks could just join in and create their own systems using it too. The main fear of cryptocurrencies is allowing the average person to realize that the US dollar and the Euro are just as fake as Tether. When everyone realizes that the banks have been freely printing money and that everyone else is working 9-5 for this same fake money, the system will collapse. The People cannot believe that this whole system is based on inexistent value.

Why is so much wealth concentrated in the hands of a few bankers? Are they really so much better than us all? Are they more competent, more hard working, more intelligent than us all? No. They simply print money for themselves.

The real "threat" of cryptocurrencies is allowing the average Joe to understand how money minting works.

First step: the user says Bitcoin is 100% fake.

Second step: the user questions how US dollar is different from Bitcoin and Tethers.

And then Eureka! They aren't different. And that's what banks are terrified of. Soon as the masses understand the fraud of a system we've been living under since 1970, the whole fraud goes down.
 
Most retail investors start panicking when something drops 5%, and there are a lot of weak hand in crypto, not to mention “day traders” some of whom are gambling addicts that just can wait to get their money in play.

I think we have to wait a while (1-2 years) before the next big run, mostly due to all the negative press people hear. The John Oliver skit, making all cryptos out to be Ponzi schemes like bitconnect, Ellen comparing bitcoin to a picture of a kitty (looks good but no value), and NPRs article about how hackers now can force your computer to mine for them, all negatively affect the many people who need to accept it as a currency alternative. We just have to be patient and put our money where our mouth is, waiting for those big returns again.

Long term blockchain’s potential is massive, but long term could involve seeing $4k bitcoin again.
 
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