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Would you pursue this niche if more than half are SEO optimized?

Discussion in 'White Hat SEO' started by ajushi, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    Hi everyone! I'm a noob hunting for niches. I came across this niche using MS and I'm wondering if it's worth pursuing even if more than half have optimized the title, url, desc and header? What would you guys advise?

    Attached is the screenshot.

    Thanks in advance!
     

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  2. tygrus

    tygrus Supreme Member

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    Well that depends on whether you have scrapebox and xrumer in your corner, then no niche is out of your reach.
     
  3. ytrekk

    ytrekk Newbie

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    Considering this is the White Hat forum, I would say no. To make anything off of a niche with a keyword this competitive using strictly WH methods would not be easy. You'd need to make it into the top 3 if you wanted any share of the traffic, and that would be quite the job judging by the results you posted. Perhaps you could find a long-tail keyword in the same niche and go for that instead. It would be smarter, and a hell of a lot easier.
     
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  4. Imhotep

    Imhotep Regular Member

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    I agree, from the looks of that matrix the top 10 is mostly authority sites and would be impossible to outrank with pure whitehat. :(
     
  5. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    Thanks for the advice ytrekk! Based on the data, why don't you think it'll be an easy job dominating this niche? What SEO competition filters do you seek before pursuing a niche?
     
  6. ytrekk

    ytrekk Newbie

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    [Incoming wall of text]
    Note: Some pretty colors added to make it a tad less bland.

    Well, firstly, it's not a matter of whether pursuing the niche is worthwhile, but a matter of whether pursuing the keyword is worthwhile. You can make money in any niche, but how easily you make that money depends on how well you choose your keyword. Honestly, I'm going to half-withdraw my first reply, because it really is challenging to tell how hard it would be to compete when judging by just this one screenshot.

    For example, if a few of the top-ranking URLs were Web 2.0 properties like Squidoo lenses, or maybe Ezine Articles...articles, some of the columns would show big numbers. However, a Squidoo lens and an Ezine article could easily be outranked because they don't hold very much authority for a competitive keyword. Then again, if one of the ranking sites that maintained good optimization was Wikipedia, it's a safe bet you won't be outranking it any time soon.

    Basically, as I said, it's hard to tell from this screen in MS. You really have to go in-depth on your keyword research. Using MS, analyze your keyword. Check how many searches it gets a month, check what the estimated SEO Traffic is for the #1 ranking site. Anything over 100 searches a day probably has some steady competitors trying to rank for it. Also check out the SEOC and SEOTCR colums. SEOC will give the total number of websites in Google's index that mention your keyword in the same word order, and SEOTCR will give the percentage of those pages that have the keyword in their title tag (which indicates what percentage of pages are really trying to compete).

    There's a lot of useful information, but it's all based on educated guesses. SEO is not 100% understood at this point, because Google has never released their entire algorithm; we can only base our programs and our research upon what we believe to be true. Once you think you've found the right keyword in MS, head to the Big G and type it in yourself, see what kind of pages are ranking, see what kind of content they have, and check what they're promoting. If the SERPs are filled with pages that are fully optimized and that are attacking a keyword, making it their only goal and only dedication, chances are you'll have a hard time ranking.

    You can only know when you try to rank for the keyword yourself, and only time will tell.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  7. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    Thanks for the helpful reply! It added to my mindset of finding good keywords :)
    BTW what values for SEOC and SEOTCR do you recommend?
     
  8. bizroot

    bizroot Supreme Member

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    If search volume is good then i will go for this niche... Most of them are old times and listed on dmoz or yahoo... It also seems they are optimized with SEO in mind but none of them are promoting it... They just happend to have this page because they were covering for whole niche but they are not targeting it, they will not work on it...

    So go with it if you got enough volume, wouldn't be tough to get ranking...
     
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  9. ytrekk

    ytrekk Newbie

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    I usually check for SEOC below the 50K mark, and I look for SEOTCR anywhere from 10-60%, but this number can, at times, be very sporadic. "Searches" is important as well; phrases with a higher number of searches generally will be harder to rank for. I've chosen the following keyword as an example:

    why cant i lose weight 118 49 81% 39,300 6,060 15%

    • SEOTCR of 15%
    • SEOTC of 6,060 (6,060 pages that are most likely trying to rank for the keyword)
    • 118 searches/day

    Looks good. So I type it into Google. #1 site is a reputable medical site, WebMD, with a PR3 ranking. Next one is what seems to be like a competitor, bunch of keywordness all over their page. Next two are Oprah and CNN, respectively. Now it seems like it might be some tough competition. I head over to a domain name checker, and find that the domains without hyphens (whycantiloseweight.n3t,.0rg, etc.) are taken, but the hyphenated domains are not. It shows that someone is trying to compete, but that the keyword is not overly competitive.

    This is a term that, according to Adwords Keyword Tool, gets 4400 searches a month, which might not seem to be that many. As I said, though, it's really hard to tell just how hard it is until you try. Keyword testing is important, and even making a simple blog that is optimized, and waiting for it to get indexed so you can check its ranking (before backlinking) can be helpful when determining the right keyword.

    Additionally: bizroot makes a very good point. By looking through the sites you can determine which sites are promoting a product, which sites are dedicated to the keyword, and which sites just happen to rank for it. For example, in my example, while Oprah and CNN might seem like high-authority websites (because they are), their pages are not necessarily designed with SEO in mind, and they are definitely not trying to optimize for keywords. With their user base I'm sure they could care less about specific keyword optimization. If you were able to create a page dedicated to the keyword with great optimization, and push it with link building, theres no doubt you could compete.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  10. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    Wow ytrekk you posts seems to get awesomer :) I'm getting a sense on what you mean.

    bizroot: That's what I thought too. I guess I was turned off that a lot of top 10 sites are listed on dmoz and yahoo dir.
     
  11. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    Addtional noobie question, is it ok to use keywords with brand names in them?
     
  12. bizroot

    bizroot Supreme Member

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    Check with your affiliate company or advertiser for their TOS although i don't see any problem... I could try amazon review or sony vaio review or xbox review... These are keywords... Although i would not buy domains with brand name... Keywords are OK...
     
  13. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    Cool! Thanks for the tip bizroot! I'm planning on using adsense BTW.

    Also I'm also in a situation like this:
    I found a nice niche without too much competition. Let's say notebooks (the paper kind). I found nice keywords:notebooks with cat covers, notebooks with dog covers etc.. according to MS they're good! The thing is I don't know what to use for my domain (notebookswithcatcovers.com or notebookswithdogcovers.com?).

    Should I make a general domain for them like schoolnotebooks.com and create contents for the keywords I found?

    Also I'm worried that the articles might not provide good content since there's not much difference between a notebook with cat or dog cover. What do you guys think?

    Again I appreciate everyone's help. It's really nice that everyone's cool and helpful here at BHW :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  14. bizroot

    bizroot Supreme Member

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    Your niche is not notebooks with cat covers or notebooks with dog covers but your niche is notebookscovers or schoolnotebook... Get domain name related to it then you can make multiple pages one for cat cover and another for dog cover etc.

    Find any freelancer for articles... You will pay them only if they provide you good quality content and it's not your problem how they write it down... I know some one who wrote 1500 articles for acai berry alone... Good content and every one was copyscape verified... All of them were on ezine live under his account and were getting decent traffic for him so it's possible...
     
  15. ajushi

    ajushi Registered Member

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    You got a point bizroot but I'm confused. The situation is that using MS or MNF, I found out that notebooks with cat covers and notebooks with dog covers have low competition therefore they're good keywords. But using MNF or MS, notebookscovers or schoolnotebook has very tough competition. Should I still use it as my domain? Should the article in the front page still be notebookscovers or schoolnotebook? This would clear up a lot.

    Cool, thanks for sharing your experience man. BTW I've been following your other thread and it's been inspiring and great reading about your journey. Kudos :)
     
  16. aReJay

    aReJay Power Member

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    [OFF TOPIC]
    Hey, nice posts. Seems like you know you shit, and your here helping the n00bs.

    Rep given!
    [/OFF TOPIC]

    In reference to the OP, as long as you can get a domain match I would give this a shot. For all of the top 10 there is 1 page back link.

    It costs like $9 to buy a domain, take a shot!

    -aReJay