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Why New SEO's Should Not Consider Outsourcing Or Automation Straight Away

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Scritty, Aug 10, 2013.

  1. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    A real busy day in my inbox today. Gloves off... I sell a range of SEO producuts on 3 SEO orientated sites. They aren't the sites that make me the most cash. Golfing holiday niche is the killer here - I tell you this without fear - (well not much) - unless you have the patience of a saint and a 5 figure sum you aren't knocking my 17 year old PR7 20,000 URL 220,000 unique visitor a day sites off that perch :).

    But in terms of offering service, SEO is by far and away the most demanding. I mean in terms of pre sales and after sales service. Which, as the hundreds here who have bought from my site know, I am normally quite happy to do.

    That being said, there is a time when even the most avid $ chaser, salesman type just has to go "Whoooah - let's put the brakes on here and take a look before you commit your cash buddy"

    The questions these days are all about direct high PR links. What they should be - where they should be sourced "Does this tool or service provide the links and/or content I need"

    Basically the subtext of the pre sales questions is:
    "I know nothing about SEO - If I buy this and press a a button will it make me money"

    Stepping back a little here, most of the questions are to do with direct links, something we have come to call "1st tier" links.
    I'm as guilty as anyone else here talking about my "first tier" you know what I don't have "a" first tier for a site. Over the years some of my sites have had 20-30 even more "first tiers" all built up - supported - using different platforms and techniques.

    Most of my sites are blog style and I post to them at least 10x a month each with new content. Somtimes a blog post, if I think it will hit a nerve - gets it's own "first tier" as a new URL to promote to get traffic numbers. Not every landing page has to be an overt sales page. With bigger sites you want to hit the zeitgeist of discussion OFTEN have a post, a new twist or opinion of what is going on in your niche - and then PROMOTE THE FUCK OUT OF IT.

    If your site gets 100,000 uniques a month - regardles of what page they are landing on, and you've monetized your site even half correctly - you should be making a living or your in a pure spam niche and need to rethink... I digress...

    There are services that offer you "50 - 100 or 150" high PR links. But they are no frikking good to me. Why?
    Even with only 8 sites I have about 75,000 URL's to promote and although I use (and like) SAPE type links for the odd thing here or there, the cost of getting just 10 good serp links to say just the top 1% of my URL's (the ones that have the most potential) would mean sourcing over 7,500 SAPE links ($30,000 US dollars a month or thereabouts)

    Ok that's hypothetical, but it's also horses for courses.
    Take the other extreme... If you have one site with 1 or 2 "money" landing pages then I reckon your options are:

    1) Make your own Tier one" Why not? Use automation to make tier 2 use whatever you like to do that.
    2) Use a service like SAPE. If you do use PRIVATE link networks then know the risks - it works fantastically - but even the responsible sellers say it will go down one day - long estimates put this at 18 months - most say not less than 3 months - truth is they can't know. Could be tomorrow, could be 2015...

    However if you blog, have several sites, have many URL's you want to promote, and want a good number of high quality links to all these URL's want to be able to make a post, and then set your tool on powering it up - then the next day make another ad infinitum (or ad nauseum it feels some days) then unless you are a glutton for punishment you are going to want to outsource or automate.

    I know it's the same drum I often bang here - but there is no "one size fits all" solution to SEO. There is no "good link" just good for your site. There is no "good content" just content that ranks and is better than your competitors in your niche.

    That's probably why the most popular thread I have here is about making your own WEB2.0 structures. It's what EVERYONE should do first. Whether you are going to expand and use tools later or not LEARN THE ROPE FIRST

    Back to the point.

    Do you know what one of the most common things I say to people asking too many pre-order questions about general SEO about any of the other tools I sell is?

    PLEASE DON'T BUY IT - OR IF YOU DO - DON'T BUY IT FROM ME! (until you know a little about SEO)

    Yeah they might go and buy from someone else. But early on when I decided to branch in the SEO market I was spending hours on Skype and email answering so many general SEO queastions.

    "How do I make anchor text?"
    "Won't Google find out my email address"
    "What's an embedded link"
    "What's a profile"
    "Why won't Squidoo let me promote porn?"
    "What does Page rank do?"
    "I don't want forum links cause I heard they are 'bad' - are they?" (saints pre-fucking-serve us)
    "I made these links yesterday but my site hasn't moved - what's happening?"

    Yes - these are real questions - I only wish I'd only heard each one - or variations thereon just once or twice.

    Seriously - if you don't know the answer to these questions no way you should be even considering automation or outsourcing.
    Learning the basics can take someone with an IQ the proper side of 100 just a day or two (you won't be an expert - but you'll know what you're on about) and the best way to learn is to DO

    Create your own WEB2.0, WIKI and article links. See what the automation tool does. See how some sites reject, or how when you try and create another the same day they won't let you, or how to embed video and images. How email verification works...2 days and you'll have it sorted then you can think "Hell I only have to make 20 of these for my little site - and that's me done - no need for any tools at all" or you might go "Fuck me - I''ve got 10 sites now each with 10 URL's and I'm making more sites or URL's every week, I need help here"

    That's why I provide so many downloadable SEO guides. It's a cheaters way of not having to answer so many emails - and boy do I get a LOT of emails. Weekends we are talking perhaps 50+ questions a day from members of this forum alone. All told maybe 200 a week.


    Here's a simple Q n A exercise...

    "What sort of enterprise do I have - number of sites - number of URL's I need to promote"
    "How hard will these be to promote. Lots of hard competition but high potential reward or just a few easy niche words that I can crush on my own"
    (And every shade in between these two extremes of course)

    Armed with the answers to these two basic questions you can make a decision. Do it all yourself - outsource - automate.


    • Do it all yourself? (As I said this should be done by EVERYONE to begin with to learn about SEO)
    • Outsource - buy a link service that provides it's own content - great if you have few URL's to promote. Remember the risk of private link networks - but there are also public netweks with little or no risk.
    • Automate - The option if you have more URL's to promote or want personal control of linking targets and cost when creating them all yourself would take too long and outsourcing would cost too much

    No method is "ideal" no method is "best" - just one that is right for your website and your skillset.
    If anyone tells you to "link like this" of "buy this tool" without knowing about your site or your skills or your experience in SEO - they are not giving you very good advice.

    Confucus say "Know Yourself"

    Scritty
     
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  2. RuiGomes

    RuiGomes BANNED BANNED

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    Great content, thanks given.

    I was surprised by the number of questions that people using serious automated tools asked too when I first got into SEO. You shouldn't definitely be using a tool that produces 1k backlinks an hour based on "I heard online that building links helps the rankings" :p
     
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  3. srinu0812

    srinu0812 Supreme Member

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    Amazing!
     
  4. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    Abolsutey - but I reckon 30-40% of people who buy these services or tools do with exactly that mind set.
    It's not good for them, it's not good in the long term for the tools or services. Ill informed customers are not good for any business I can think of full stop short of a ponzi scam or something.

    Scritty
     
  5. SkyrocketSEO

    SkyrocketSEO Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Your threads should fall into next category:

    "I've opened all my cards in front of SEO newbies, but it was pearls before the swine since they will stick with 10K blog comments/day"
     
  6. twitter.followers

    twitter.followers Elite Member

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    This post needs to be read by all the newbies since the questions which they ask as you mentioned are simply ridiculous sometimes to answer. Looks like they're coming from Fiverr.

    Anyways, the thread's simply amazing! Worth a read. Thanks and +rep added!
     
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  7. capricious

    capricious Junior Member

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    nice info. and yes, before buying the tools, one should know how to use it. Its not a one click automated solution to make money, but a tool to reduce labor work. thanks :)
     
  8. abhi007

    abhi007 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    always love going through your threads.
     
  9. Goal Line Technology

    Goal Line Technology Senior Member

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    No method is "ideal" no method is "best" - just one that is right for your website and your skillset.

    Just to emphasize the above line, and perhaps just add.... "at any given point in time" and
    remember that slow and steady wins the race.
    If you work slowly but constantly, you will succeed better than if you work fast for a short while and do not continue.
    (Associated with Aesop's fable of "The Tortoise and the Hare.")

    Always take a slow progression from White Hat to Grey Hat to Black Hat,
    then and only then will any individual know what is the best strategy / tactic for them at that time.

    Thanks +reps Scritty
     
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  10. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    Thats' not a bad way to think of it. Start clean - understand - expand.
     
  11. Peter Ngo

    Peter Ngo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Hi Scritty,

    I have been reading many of your posts and i really really like your writing style, humble but still a little bit of sarcasm in it. ;)

    i thought i was a total noob before i read this, now i think i am a little bit better than a noob ;)

    Cheers
    Peter
     
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  12. jdog37

    jdog37 Power Member

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    +rep from me.... You took the gloves off and grabbed a hammer to nail that point home. I vote for this to be a sticky thread.
     
  13. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    I don't want people to think I have no sympathy for people new to SEO - I do - we were all there once. But like any other endevour - one you hope to make a living out of - a little pre-thought and understanding is essential.

    I have no desire to EVER sell anything (even something as ephemeral as "an idea") to someone who is not ready for it. It can seem intimidating from the outside, but a couple of days reading and practicing the right material and methods will save the average newcomer a lot of taime and potentially a fortune in cash and grief.

    Thanks for the reply.

    Scritty
     
  14. Peter Ngo

    Peter Ngo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    i see no intimidation in your servicing style instead it is what clients call professional (i would), just that it is a mind set and normal behavior of human being. if you think the other way around, some noobs actually buy SEO service to learn and they feel the risk when doing it their own with all the updates and stuffs.

    And yes in your case, i think it would be a great idea to make yourself a huge list of FAQs, because even with ebook, they wont even bother to read. Just my 2cent though.

    Regards,
    Peter
     
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  15. Furious George

    Furious George Supreme Member Premium Member

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    One of the first websites I started years and years ago... I had no idea what to do, so I purchased SENuke. Then I realized I had to purchase captcha software, and then I realized my ip was only good for a two passes or so.

    HUGE mistake on my part. I thought, oh, well, SENuke will do everything for me, it's only 100 bucks a month! They have a great marketing strategy... but it's not noob friendly. If you don't know what it does or why, it's a waste. That site took me years to get indexed again. It got nuked alright...

    Since I learned to do things manually, without assistance, I'm much much better off.
     
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  16. Guyon Dantonio

    Guyon Dantonio Newbie

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    Thanks for writing this post, great content. I'm outsourcing SEO for a long time, although I learn new things everyday! ;)
     
  17. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    I still write all my blog posts myself - would never trust anyone else to do it.
    With so much else to do I outsource "offsite" content and automate 65% of the link building. So I guess that'a a hybrid method
     
  18. Gyuman82

    Gyuman82 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Golfing holiday niche? Challenge accepted :)

    Haha jk, great post as always Scritty.
     
  19. mike2000

    mike2000 Elite Member

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    Great post and must read for starters.

    There are lots of thread pop out each and everyday here asking about various general and sometimes very minute things. Many of them don't even try searching. Newbies should understand that there will be help for them, as always in here, but they also should be willing to make some effort to learn and try things rather than waiting for someone to spoon feed.
     
  20. lmxftw

    lmxftw BANNED BANNED

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    thank you sir!

    as i said in previous posts your knowledge shines upon this forum :)