Why do homeless vagrants avoid jail but criminals don't?

This seems appropriate for a BlackHat forum.

Why do white collar criminals and petty crime offenses get jail time, but homeless vagrants mostly avoid jail?

Is it because the homeless serve a purpose to show hard-working commuters that things could be much worse, while the white-collar criminals in Lambos show them how things could be much better?

I never understood this.

Umm I’m lost for words here but @Festinger likes such drama he’ll enlighten us

Mr Positive said:

Umm I’m lost for words here but @Festinger likes such drama he’ll enlighten us

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Does that mean you're dumbfounded or you find me dumb?

Simply because society generally has a soft spot for those down on their luck and also enable their lifestyle by giving them money all the time. I see more often than not they are given money when begging for change that is why they seem to be more and more entitled which I noticed over the years. I have even been called a 'fucking prick' before by homeless because I refuse to give him money and many times they will get offended like they 'deserive' your money since they are so spoilt by the rest of society.

I am not saying 'let them die' btw I am saying it is useless giving them money and feeds their drug/alcohol habits but most people are just too short sighted and weak to refuse to give them and they just want to get rid of the guilt feeling so give them money then and there.

But as to why they 'get away with it' I think it is just too hard to enforce and police know they will just be out on the street in a few days anyway so it is a waste of time and resources. There just isn't a proper solution to the homeless issue that governments have devised so they just keep on with the broken cycle.

So OP is being homeless a crime?

Simply because society generally has a soft spot for those down on their luck and also enable their lifestyle by giving them money all the time. I see more often than not they are given money when begging for change that is why they seem to be more and more entitled which I noticed over the years. I have even been called a 'fucking prick' before by homeless because I refuse to give him money and many times they will get offended like they 'deserive' your money since they are so spoilt by the rest of society.

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Don't go too off topic, this thread isn't about the IRS.

I am not saying 'let them die' btw I am saying it is useless giving them money and feeds their drug/alcohol habits but most people are just too short sighted and weak to refuse to give them and they just want to get rid of the guilt feeling so give them money then and there.

But as to why they 'get away with it' I think it is just too hard to enforce and police know they will just be out on the street in a few days anyway so it is a waste of time and resources. There just isn't a proper solution to the homeless issue that governments have devised so they just keep on with the broken cycle.

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They're probably trying to experiment with different methods in different cities.

So OP is being homeless a crime?

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"Vagrant" implies panhandling (among other things), which is.

Maybe, homeless knows the cost of freedom.

Is jail an upgrade for them or not?
Actually, they can learn how to read there, read some IM books, and start making $$$. /s

So your great idea for someone who has absolutely nothing; no friends, no family, no home, no food... is to throw them in jail?
Brutal.

davids355 said:

So your great idea for someone who has absolutely nothing; no friends, no family, no home, no food... is to throw them in jail?
Brutal.

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You should be a lawyer with that deflection.

I think you need to compare a homesless persons sentence to a white collars sentence for the same crime.

Do you see the same homeless people comitting crimes, or is it new ones?

Would be good to know which country you speak of. Im guessing US?

MagKioko said:

So OP is being homeless a crime?

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No, but crime is.

blackhato_Owhiteheart said:

Is jail an upgrade for them or not?

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In a lot of cases yes.

davids355 said:

So your great idea for someone who has absolutely nothing; no friends, no family, no home, no food... is to throw them in jail?
Brutal.

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Yeah homelessness is probably one of the more complicated problems out there.. a majority have drug dependancy and/or mental issues, often severely for both. If you build a bunch of apartments and put them in there they get trashed and turn into mini-ghettos, programs understandably don't work for most homeless people.

Jailing them can often be more humane than the alternative, but it's hardly something that solves it. Not really an easy answer imo. At some point it's weighing up the needs of the individual homeless person vs the needs of society at large.

Maybe crime is illegal but vagrancy is not.

These weekend threads really do become weirder by the week.

You could run a business that fails, lose your home and become bankrupt and homeless through no criminal activity. Do you class that person the same as someone who has a home but is a criminal going our robbing or dealing drugs?

davids355 said:

So your great idea for someone who has absolutely nothing; no friends, no family, no home, no food... is to throw them in jail?
Brutal.

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They'd make plenty of new friends and end up sharing bars of soap


It could be argued that homeless people would appreciate a couple of weeks in jail with a bed, 3 meals a day, heating and showers instead of sleeping rough in the rain and freezing cold of winter.

I think most homeless people have a hint of craziness in them and want to be free.

I know a lot of people in my town where they prefer to beg than to work. They don't want to be tied to anything. Weird interpretation, but it makes sense. There is even one that gets regular visits from his mother. His mother owns a house and is doing decent. He prefers to do drugs on the streets.

alurosu said:

I think most homeless people have a hint of craziness in them and want to be free.

I know a lot of people in my town where they prefer to beg than to work. They don't want to be tied to anything. Weird interpretation, but it makes sense. There is even one that gets regular visits from his mother. His mother owns a house and is doing decent. He prefers to do drugs on the streets.

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Good point. There is a "homeless person" in my town, she is always outside of Tesco most days and evenings. But when I spoke to her a while back I was surprised to hear that she does have a flat. So maybe she just prefers being on the street.

Also I think its definitely true that when you look at someone who has "less" you just assume they must hate their situation, but in reality I think your situation is always relative and theres probably someone looking at our life thinking, that poor person

Even so, I personally think its important to appreciate what you have and always to try and give back, or at least consider, those who have less than you.

alurosu said:

I think most homeless people have a hint of craziness in them and want to be free.

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You also might be in denial to avoid the "this could be you" fear.

alurosu said:

I know a lot of people in my town where they prefer to beg than to work. They don't want to be tied to anything. Weird interpretation, but it makes sense. There is even one that gets regular visits from his mother. His mother owns a house and is doing decent. He prefers to do drugs on the streets.

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Two sides to every coin.

You could run a business that fails, lose your home and become bankrupt and homeless through no criminal activity. Do you class that person the same as someone who has a home but is a criminal going our robbing or dealing drugs?

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Again with the "are you saying all homeless people are criminals??" deflection from the mods

The first type of person you mentioned might:

• Turn to petty criminal activity, which could increase crime stats and help increase support for law enforcement
• Become long-term homeless or a victim which would also increase crime stats and help increase support for law enforcement
• ????
• Recover financially and become a more valuable, complacent and diligent worker to pay taxes for law enforcement

The second type of person you mentioned might see an example of "better living" and fall into a trap while trying to achieve it, which also increases crime stats and support for law enforcement.

Even so, I personally think its important to appreciate what you have and always to try and give back, or at least consider, those who have less than you.

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Taking things away to make someone appreciate the remainder is a mistake.

Appreciating what you "have" doesn't make sense and most people are on a ladder that can be tipped. Doing this only makes you complacent with what you're not allowed to have.

William Parsons said:

"Vagrant" implies panhandling (among other things), which is.

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Not in many jurisdictions.

I think its simply because in most places the cops have better things to do than bust some bum for panning.

usually the only time they “enforce” the whole pan handling or vagrancy laws is when some bum is getting aggressive or violent and they need a reason the get rid of him/her for a little while.

1. Vagrants dont have any money, so you cant fine them.
2. Working people have money so you can fine them.
3. Vagrants on average have more mental health issues, so cost more to incarcerate.
4. Working people have less mental health issues so are cheaper to incinerate.

I've worked on an off in mental health for over 30 years. The vast majority of people you see on the streets today I looked after 20 years ago in nice cosey purpose build facility, where they were chemically coshed into a happy place, given 3 squares a day, and held hands in a chain to visit the shops on a Saturday afternoon.

Then some do-good'ing middle class leftist liberals fresh out of Uni decided to score virtue points with their Marxist social studies teacher/lover and have them all released into society. Where they couldn't be monitored to stay on their meds and annoy the working class because that's the low cost social housing they where forced into.

Liberals are fucking tossers !