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Why did you fire your last SEO company?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by BRAIN_PAIN, Nov 26, 2013.

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Why did you fire your last SEO company?

  1. Prices were too high for what they delivered

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  2. Quality was too low

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  3. Support was very bad

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  4. Communication was very bad

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  5. No actual results

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  6. Did not deliver what they promised

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  7. Other (let me know in the comments)

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Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. BRAIN_PAIN

    BRAIN_PAIN Junior Member

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    I am very curious what are the most common reasons for a client to leave his current SEO company. Can you please share your opinions and experience here in this thread ?

    I will list a couple of general answers as a poll, but I would really appreciate if people share their thoughts in a post here.

    So why did you leave or fire your last SEO company/SEO expert?

    You can have multiple choices in the poll so feel free to use them :typing:
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  2. MafiaBoss

    MafiaBoss Elite Member

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    i don't think its a good idea.
     
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  3. BRAIN_PAIN

    BRAIN_PAIN Junior Member

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    Ok, I agree, lets just focus on the question without sharing specific names. That is not important. I just want to know what was the reason for you to leave your SEO company :)

     
  4. innozemec

    innozemec Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  5. SkyrocketSEO

    SkyrocketSEO Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Your poll is missing:
    * Everything above
     
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  6. Windmill

    Windmill Supreme Member

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    In my earlier days, I knew onsite SEO - but I didn't know offsite SEO. I figured out that I could outsource that work that I didn't understand, and rank. Well, it worked OK - for a time. I got ranking for some keywords, it was OK. But then Google updates hit. Suddenly, their web 2.0 links that I was purchasing were not doing much. The price I paid was beyond reasonable considering hours involved, but I was paying someone to create useless junk.

    So I took time to actually learn it myself. When I learned how to do it, I realized that my previous SEO outsourcer was giving me really shit links. My fault, I requested them. Now I handle my SEO completely solo and its made everything much better.

    I've got one site that has been penalized as a result of purchasing these links that I just can't fix.
     
  7. BRAIN_PAIN

    BRAIN_PAIN Junior Member

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    [​IMG]

    :cool:

    Yes you can :) But there must be some other reason behind it?

    Yes it is missing that, but I made it a Multiple Choice Poll so you can just select all the answers. Anyway can I edit the poll now and add it? I can't find that option.

    Hmm, yeah sometimes it is just better to do things by ourselves or pay more for a better quality. Can you provide more details about the web 2.0's ? What was wrong with them? Were they using spun unreadable content or just over-optimizing for the same anchor ? Too much exact match links?

    When something is that cheap, there must be some quality problems. I see a lot of services offering web 2.0's with unique content and a bunch of other links for like 60-70$ and when you think about it, that is not enough to cover only the content cost.

    Nobody is insured against Google updates. The SEO environment is very dynamic.
     
  8. bradhawk

    bradhawk Newbie

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    Bcz company condition is very bad..:p
     
  9. BRAIN_PAIN

    BRAIN_PAIN Junior Member

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    Currently the answer that leads is: Did not deliver what they promised

    Can someone specify what exactly was not delivered? Was it because of a deadline or they just never ever delivered the promised links?

    I would like to get more people involved in this thread :)
     
  10. Reyone

    Reyone Elite Member

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    I started a huge whitehat project and I had pretty much shit clue about SEO.

    I put my trust into this guy who I thought was knowledgeable; he was really nice and he would be there anytime I needed. Problem is, he had pretty much no fucking clue about SEO, my site got penalized and so on.

    In terms of companies that know SEO? They will either sell you shit for a normal price or they will provide quality at a really high price.

    Its really simple man, if you TRULY know how to SEO and you can do SEO for companies, you will either charge REALLY high beacuse you will need to (obviously you will hire HQ writers, you will have your networks and youll get a lot more HQ stuff), or you will simply SEO your own shit, because if you truly know that you can rank whatever you want, wasting your time making a MARGINAL profit of $100 when charging $300 is something you will not do.

    Buy a product, rank it and sell it, billion times more profit than getting shitty money from customers.

    The only way to be a completely successful SEO company is to 1 charge really high to afford all costs, getting hq people and getting a good profit, be able to provide good results and so on. If you charge low and you get shitty stuff to your clients, some will eventually get hit, you will run into managerial problems and at the end of it you will be so fucking burnt you will most likely quit.

    Seriously, theres about a BILLION people offering SEO, but if you are actually pretending to hit big clients, RETAIN THEM and gain new big clients, the only way to do it is by investing into QUALITY, and explaining clients this is the quality they want. Of course, this is something ULTRA hard to do, hence pretty much all of seo "companies" fail hard.

    You also get those fucked up "seo companies" who are simply into seo to make a living... just think about it man... a person that can seo something big wont waste his/her time for a $100/month, knowing the client is banking 100 times more.

    Anyways, just my thoughts, fuck 99% of the seo gurus and seo companies out there, they either rip you off by offer normal quality at an exacerbated price or by fucking your site up.


    /e: oh almost forgot. You also have those CUNTS who know what they are doing, they will get your money, your site will go up, they will get a lot more clients, a lot more money and then run the fuck off with it. A month later, you all are penalized and off the SERPS.
    If you are serious about SEO, GET SERIOUS SHIT TOGETHER, and stop creating SHIT ASS FUCKING PLANS that will fail.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  11. ShadeDream

    ShadeDream Elite Member

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    Because they wouldn't stop asking stupid questions. :D
     
  12. OnlineA

    OnlineA Regular Member

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    Honesty, I think 99.9% of all SEO companies are a joke, just reselling cheap backlinks from others. Thats why every company only keeps you ranking until the next google update, then they say "Uuuups, it was the update, not us". Even some companies who have these fancy sales threads on here, most fail on each update and get your website off google. The serious companies don't need money upfront, because they can actually deliver and know they get more money afterwards.
     
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  13. BRAIN_PAIN

    BRAIN_PAIN Junior Member

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    :D Stupid questions like what :)

    Reyone, Thank you for your post!

    You are right for the quality, I agree.

    What if there are those guys good at SEO, but can't actually make good sites that convert, can't monetize them well. And there are those guys good at monetizing and converting, selling, but not good at SEO :)

    They can help each other :) One by offering SEO services and benefiting from the profit and the second getting those SEO services to rank and bank :)

    OnlineA, these serious companies that don't want money upfront, I guess they sign a contract or something stating that if they rank you, you have to sign for 6 months with them. Otherwise I don't see how can they benefit. And also nobody is insured against updates.

    You can be the best at SEO and still get affected by the updates.

    There are ups and downs.

    Please share other opinions, they are interesting :)
     
  14. mickyfu

    mickyfu Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Because for $5 I expected to be ranking at least at no1.
     
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  15. Danny1111

    Danny1111 Elite Member

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    Well I run a small Seo Company - and I have been looking at some of the very large 170+ employee Seo Firms and what they do.

    First they charge $15,000 to even look at your website .. then monthly retainer of $15,000+ for that you get a team leader and 3 staff working on your project ... however they do exactly what we do as a smaller company in terms of getting you ranked.

    The main difference between them and us - is they get the large corporate accounts due to the set-up they have created.

    So the quality of the Seo work isn't different - but your paying for the office space/benefits etc of the people working on your project.

    Second Example : company makes 100 million a year from selling Seo services - they just fired all their local workers here - and now bought companies in Philippines and Sri Lanka with 100+ workers at each Site to do all the work... and they plan to scale up.

    Go to the other end of the spectrum buying Seo for $100-$300 a month for that your getting Automated Link Building with little overall plan - that works for a while but fades away.

    So therefore you really have to consider what your looking for in an Seo Company and what is a realistic budget to get you what you want .. because there is a wide spectrum of choices... that will deliver various levels of quality.
     
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  16. unitedsolutions

    unitedsolutions Registered Member

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    Prices/questions/non results/and they think they all know what they are talking about. ......

    FYI, I know a very, very basic amount about SEO. But I know understand its flow and what is for and why people use it, out side of that I am a moron when it comes to SEO.

    PRICES-
    I will ALMOST never pay upfront for any non-hard product, usually service companies in this industry are all talk and no walk. They ask for money up front (haha) and they all tell you it is amazing and blah blah blah.

    QUESTIONS:
    They ask a million questions about your business to attempt to get a "better idea" for your business and then they say I got the right this or that... all scripts and sales (how do I know, I write scripts and help companies with sales performance with a specialty in over the phone/online services) they ask those questions to find out HOW TO BETTER SELL YOU AND WHAT PACKAGE TO SELL YOU ON!

    NON RESULTS:
    All you get is a "bullshit" answer, but THEY wilL NEVER take accountability for not doing what they are supposed to. They don't offer some kinda of extra work with out charge or anything. Just kinda oh well pay us more!

    At the end the worst part is they talk to you like you DON'T know shit about it, which in this case I don't, but when I ask questions I get sales answer which means they don't know wtf they are talking about and that is sad coming from someone who doesn't know much about seo.

    I am now learning SEO and I will basically hire someone at 9-10 bucks an hour for 20 hours a week to come in and do SEO for me, just the work part. This is way more cost effective then giving a seo company money. I just gotta learn it first, then its like having your own personal seo department THAT YOU don't need to keep paying for nothing results and bs remarks.....you just have your team (or yourself do it)!
     
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  17. Reyone

    Reyone Elite Member

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    Sorry, but I absolutely do not agree with that.

    Firstly, when you say you want to scale up by getting third world country workers instead of getting them from around the block, does not work like that.
    Usually people who work for pennies, have no education, have a harder time understanding things and overall they just don't click the same way an educated person who wouldnt work for pennies.

    Now you talk about 1 person, following your model "scaling up" with hundreds of people who fall under this category, in order to make it all work you would need an absolutely outstanding managerial system to allow you to take advantage from those people; you would need to invest a lot more time in training, and also you might need to fire/hire a ton of people in order to get a few proper ones. Therefore what might seem cheap will come out to be expensive.

    When you speak about a company charging xxxxxx/month and saying they work under one model, you must be absolutely 100% sure to know what they do, otherwise you are simply guessing. If I was to make a large profit by charging large bucks to companies, I would of course make sure the links and the quality would be a lot higher.

    Now lets talk about writers (English writers); there is no way in hell or heaven you are going to get the same writing level if you hire people who have attended to university and have learnt to do essays, proper structure and also creative writing, than if you hire people who are willing to work for pennies who have no education whatsoever. Fine, you might find some good ones, but again, when it comes to larger numbers, you will not.

    If you think that setting up cheap labor (for SEO) is going to be cheaper, you might be wrong. Time is money and money is time, weight your options and so on. Also, when facing clients, if you have a full team of people with a degree in a US university in journalism, is not the same as saying you got a team of third world country workers. As bad as it sounds, countries matter A LOT. A US client is 100% more likely to buy a service from the US than a service from India, I've faced this tons of times.

    Anyways, just my thoughts of course.
     
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  18. loopline

    loopline Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I agree with most of what you said. I own part of a brick and mortar marketing agency (which includes a heavy focus on SEO) and we work with brick and mortar companies, mostly in California. We, as a general rule, take the client based on their word and bill them at the end of month 1. No money needed up front, but our sales guys have met the people in person and been to their business, talked to them on the phone multiple times etc...

    I rarely talk to people here on BHW here on the phone, although it has happened on occasion. Ive never met 99.9999999% of the people here, even fewer then Ive talked to on the phone. So when I offer 1 off services here on BHW I require payment up front, because I have no idea if I am working with the most legitimate person ever, or if I am working with a scammer from who knows where. So I don't think collecting money up front is necessarily a red flag that a company is poor, but rather should be taken into account given how the client and company are associated.

    As for results, I agree as well, lots of people just resell links or even automated links, hey I have done it when I was getting started. As a marketing agency we handle every thing from coordinating with web developers and programmers for the client, to content creation, conversion optimization, on page seo, off page seo, social presence, and more. The point is that there are lots of bad companies out there, but there are good companies too. I think we all here have such a heavy online focus that we get involved with and see a lot of fly by night type companies, when in reality there are lots of good, real, and helpful seo companies out there.

    That said, of course the "seo" portion does certainly have elements that are more art then science but when you bring it together with an overall business/marketing plan its more science then art.




    HAHA!




    I have to agree, your spot on on a lot of your points there. We have 1 employee who is from the philipines and he is sharp. He has been with us for almost 3 years now. We have tried others, even people he found from his neighborhood and they didn't work out. I don't think all of it is that they have no education, etc... but you are right, US folks buy from US folks. We have a brick and mortar office in the suburbs of LA and our clients (mostly from LA) buy from us in part due to the fact they know they can drive down to the office and sit in the meeting room and hash it out if there is an issue. At the same time, a company in the Philippines is more likely to buy seo from another company in the Philippines.

    Local people know how other locals work, think and buy, so they want to work local. Also someone from the Philippines is not as likely to hire a writer from the US as they would be from the Philippines. So its give and take, just I think there is a lot of people on forums like this in North America and Europe that want to work with people from those places and someone from India doesn't think the same way. I have found when outsourcing to other countries that there are diamonds in the rough, but largely the best thing to do is to hand off repeatable tasks. If its a process that works the same way every time, its going to work out better then if you try to get them to engage in something that requires what I would deem as "common sense" Whats common sense to me, won't be "Common" to them and vice versa as we have different world views. Of course education and experience do play a part. Especially if the person you are hiring has been unfortunate to the level they had to leave school as a child to work to help earn money for the family to live. Its not their fault they couldn't go to school and they are doing the best they can in life to survive. That said, I would love to fix the world and I do my part, I donate money, goods and time to charity, to my church, missionaries and those less fortunate around the world, but when it comes to business I have to run a thriving business in order to be able to do that. Since I can't fix the whole world I need to hire people who can help me perform and as noted, there is a gap there that can not be filled by many people from another country.


    Writing, same thing. We get a few lesser quality articles done that go on 3rd party sites. Then we monitor them and if they begin to rank we replace the content with better content. However on customers money sites we only use Copy Army or the like. The copy is top notch, conversion centric and product focused, while also taking into account keywords and such for seo purposes. It costs me like $90 for 600 words (ish). When your spending $75-$150 per page on content alone that your creating for a customer, and you create multiple pages a month, you can't charge them $300, you will be in the poor house. However I can promise you that when real world customers land on pages we create, the conversion rate is higher and the client makes money money then they do when they get content from the people charging $500 a month.

    Management is also key. Our CEO (not myself, although I have some "moderate" management skills), has been CEO or in a top position at multiple companies including companies he has either started or purchased and built. The level of leadership it takes to grow a business as it reaches each stage is beyond simplicity. Meaning if you just "show up and hope for the best" your going to fail. In fact "Ready Fire, Aim" by Michael Masterson is an excellent book on this topic.

    So in short I think the age old adage (all things being equal) "You get what you pay for" is about right no par.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  19. phpbuilt

    phpbuilt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You're asking a bunch of SEOs why they fired their last SEO company?

    Whats next, ask a bunch of bookkeepers why they fired their last accountant?
     
  20. loopline

    loopline Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Many people come to these forums not so they can learn SEO so much as get a grasp and find someone else to do it for them. If there weren't people here looking to "buy seo services" you would not have a thriving Buy Sell Trade section.
     
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