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Why did this happen? Did I just stumble on something BIG?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by WebInvestor, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. WebInvestor

    WebInvestor Registered Member

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    Hey Guys,

    I had some weird stuff happen to one of my sites and I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge on the subject.

    I opened a brand new site with an exact match domain, and built sidebar links to it which resulted in about 1500 links.

    I was position #1 for my exact match keyword.

    However position #5 for a second keyword that received more traffic.

    I figured let me build more links targeting the second keyword, so I experimented with an Exrumer blast of 7,500 links mainly focusing on the second keyword.

    Two days later I'm #410+ for any keyword except my exact match.

    I decided to try some PPC, and sent around 1,000 unique views, as well as used the site in a web site building webinar, and had around 200 people on the site for around 15 minutes plus.

    My traffic shot up and my bounce rate hit below 30%

    All of a sudden the next day I was out of the sandbox with a strong #1 across 5 keywords.

    I'm a little perplexed to what happened, but recently another site hit the sandbox so I was wondering if I sent real organic traffic, if that helps it get out of the sandbox?

    Anybody experience something like this before?
     
  2. Sharksfan

    Sharksfan Registered Member

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    I have heard - and I can't verify this, but I've heard it multiple times - that using PPC to send traffic to a new site gets it out of the sandbox - especially if you are the high bidder for a particular keyword.

    And it kind of makes sense - one of the possible ways Google could be working their magic would be to only allow sites out of the sandbox to show up in the listings. They would be missing out on revenue if they had hard rules on letting someone out if they were bidding high and had a good QS.

    How was your quality score for those PPC campaigns?
     
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  3. allpleasure

    allpleasure Newbie

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    Google dance could be the reason, but it is worth to do some research upon this.
     
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  4. PureMind

    PureMind Regular Member Premium Member

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    It actually make quite good sense, as sites blasted with spam usually is low quality. Then you prove that your site is quality by having a low bounce rate and visitors stay long.

    But for getting out of sandbox the best thing is to add content, always work!
     
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  5. WebInvestor

    WebInvestor Registered Member

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    hmmm...

    well some good ideas here, I will check on the quality score, off the top of my head I think it was 3.

    maybe I'll try it again on the other domain name, however just with PPC, the bounce rate would probably increase or stay the same, so I don't know what did it, the tutorials or the PPC traffic.

    god I hate relying on G
     
  6. deezydiamonds

    deezydiamonds Newbie

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    I hear you brother
     
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  7. blackhatdavid

    blackhatdavid Regular Member

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    All of the items listed are probably "part" of the equation. Google has openly stated that there are hundreds (or thousands) of items that go into calculating where a site ranks for a search term. Most people don't realize that actual traffic is one of those (and a relatively important one). So if people search for a term and click through to your site (maybe via either PPC or organic results), Google remembers this and gives your site more value in future rankings for this search. This is a (possible) reason I would suspect anyway.
     
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  8. SpeakToTman

    SpeakToTman Regular Member

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    I agree 100%...but i also think that a major factor in this increase in ranking is the fact that the OP had a lot of people stay on his site for a very long time...and this would tell Google that people liked the content there..

    So i think that the big G definitely considers traffic,and "what people think" of your site when ranking it...

    In fact, i noticed in the WF that someone was selling a piece of software that simply searched your keyword in the search engines, found your site in the listings and clicked on it! And the people that bought it there were seeing pretty good results!
     
  9. WebInvestor

    WebInvestor Registered Member

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    So with that logic...

    do you think hiring XXX people using crowd sourcing to just come to the site and spend 3 minutes on 5 pages to total 15 minutes, to insure quality bounce and time on site would result in a better ranking/ out of the sandbox?
     
  10. SpeakToTman

    SpeakToTman Regular Member

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    To be honest, i think yeah, it would help your ranking...question is though...how long are you going to keep your position?
     
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  11. WebInvestor

    WebInvestor Registered Member

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    interesting...

    something worth testing. Well, the site is loaded with backlinks, thus the sandbox, so in theory once Google allows the links to hold water, and releases me from the depths of their heavy quicksand, I should end up being fine.
     
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  12. dumbodrop

    dumbodrop Regular Member

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    This sounds the like regular google dance which happens to everyone after link building. Nothing to worry about! congrats on your rankings :)
     
  13. Cnotey

    Cnotey Power Member

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    Link to this software? I have also noticed some strange things with google's algo the last month or so. Some of the people ranking for my keyword have 0 backlinks, and they are beating out people with 10,000 backlinks.

    I am starting to think there is truth to what the "crazies" are saying, that backlinks don't matter for SERPs anymore.
     
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  14. ShiftySituation

    ShiftySituation Power Member

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    Here are my thoughts...

    You have a site that you know has more authority than sites that are ranking on page 1 but your site isn't showing up there for some reason or another. You purchase PPC but your site doesn't move above the sites that are of lower authority. Can you sue G for forcing you to pay for ads on their search engine because your site isn't showing where it should?

    There are plenty of studies out there and programs that show you what is needed to get to #1 in the rankings and they are pretty accurate. If you've showed your site SEO stats compared to others in your niche in a Court of Law as you pursued your suit against G, their lawyers would have to bring up compelling evidence showing why your site is where it is in the rankings and to prove that G isn't stacking the deck to get more PPC revenue.

    With that being said, I think G will give you a more true ranking when you purchase PPC hitting keywords that your site targets to cover their ass.

    On another note, Google doesn't know if people visit your site unless you have Google Analytics on it. They don't know anything about your visitors; referrer, length on site, where are they from, ect.. unless you install that code that lets them know. The only way that will know if someone visits your site w/o installing analytics, is if they click on your site from their search engine. Traffic has nothing or at best very little to do with serps and if you think it does, think about this... Ranking #1 gets a ton more traffic than #2, so if you are #2 and site visitors had much to do with serps, you'd never see #1.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2010
  15. flibbertigibbet

    flibbertigibbet Regular Member

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    Absolutely not. People using AdWords need to learn how to use it properly, that's all. People lose a lot of money with this PPC program because they don't know how to use it efficiently. You don't sue Google becuase you don't know how to use their tools... It's CONTEXTUAL advertising... so that means that your ads will be in context to what your website its about. The best way to do this is to make sure:

    1) the file name of the web page that you're using adsense on MATCHES the keyword that you're going for
    2) that your H1 tag MATCHES the filename of your webpage
    3) that you have your keyword BOLDED several times through out the post

    that way the adsense bot will have no problem understanding what your web page is about.

    Those silly little ad section targeting tags are necessary if you follow these rules. It's worked without fail EVERYTIME I've done it this way.
     
  16. normanbates

    normanbates Newbie

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    i would blame google dance