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When iframing CPA offers, is it necessary to fake both pages of the submit?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by invinceable, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. invinceable

    invinceable Regular Member

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    Do I need to just fake the referrer of the initial page that goes to the CPA offer? Because won't the second page of the CPA offer just show the 1st page as the referrer?

    I am confused why in some iframing solutions there is the ability to iframe both pages of the offer. It doesn't seem like you would need it. Although maybe someone with a little more technical know how than I can answer this question.
     
  2. Grizzy

    Grizzy Senior Member

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    hmm you wont be able to fake the second page of the offer, you have no control over that, and it will always be the first page. All you have to worry about is the referrer on the first page (as far as referrers go, there are plenty of other thing to worry about besides that)

    The reason there is a need to iframe the second page is because often the offer you might be working with is an email submit, but it converts on the second page. Or maybe it is a first page email submit, but you want to have more people fill out the contact information on the second page so your leads look more legit..
     
  3. invinceable

    invinceable Regular Member

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    Grizzy: awesome, that makes perfect sense. So you mean to resize the submit on the second page. When you say there are plenty of other things to worry about, are you talking about like lead quality? What other things should I be worried about?
     
  4. Grizzy

    Grizzy Senior Member

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    Yea can resize and change the position of the iframe after the first page has been submitted.

    You really need to worry about lead quality and possible iframe detection. So you need to mix in wh leads and probably do some extensive testing.
     
  5. moneygame

    moneygame Junior Member

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    When you say iframe detection, are you talking about them stumbling on your LP?

    But I agree, lead quality is extremely important, if your leads don't back out then they can pull you from the offer, or even worse, decide to not pay you. But as far as I know, the only way they could actually tell you are iframing would be go to their actual landing page, at least right now.
     
  6. invinceable

    invinceable Regular Member

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    Grizzy:

    Could you maybe provide an example of what you are talking about of the javascript or whatever that they would use to detect an iframe is being used?
     
  7. fotran

    fotran Newbie

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    Why are you trying to hide your referrer?

    Are you doing something against the CPA companies tos?
     
  8. Grizzy

    Grizzy Senior Member

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    Nah, they could easily modify an iframe breaker to silently record who is framing what.

    Well if your basic iframe breaker looks like this:
    Code:
    <script type="text/javascript">
     if (top.location != self.location) 
    {
     // break out of iframe
     top.location = self.location.href
    }
    </script>
    Then why not have it do something like this and pass back information to the server rather then breaking the frame.
    Code:
    <script type="text/javascript">
     if (top.location != self.location) 
    {
     // call some function that uses XMLHTTP object to pass current url to server
     SendRequest(location.href)
    }
    </script>
    That script could store every url being iframed in a db and then compliance could look at the url arguments to see what affiliate was iframing. Then it's all down hill from there..


    No way man, this is all for educational purposes only :D
     
  9. fotran

    fotran Newbie

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    I think this is the problem I was running into with facebook...
     
  10. Grizzy

    Grizzy Senior Member

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    you were trying to iframe facebook?
     
  11. moneygame

    moneygame Junior Member

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    Grizzy:

    Some good info there and I have some experience with iframing offers (actually about to release a product that might be helpful to you guys :) ) But check this out:

    Code:
    var prevent_bust = 0
    window.onbeforeunload = function() { prevent_bust++ }
    setInterval(function() {
      if (prevent_bust > 0) {
        prevent_bust -= 2
        window.top.location = 'server that responds with 204 error'
      }
    }, 1)
    You could easily bust out of an iframe with something like that.



    It is pretty easy to break out of an iframe, but like you said breaking out of an iframe is pretty worthless because only about 1% of offers (or even less) use some sort of iframe busting script. I also have been working with CPA networks for quite a while, and while you are right that they could get the info where you are iframing the offer, 99.9% of them don't. It is too much of a hassle for them to sort through literally tens of thousands email submits a day per offer (if they even have the technology which you describe implemented).
     
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  12. Grizzy

    Grizzy Senior Member

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    Great post man. I know that is just a very basic iframe breaker i posted, there are better ones out there. I think that more aren't broken because 100% iframing is basically an accepted practice with most networks. People do get burnt iframing tho. Heh don't do it with Steve's network is all I will say :D

    I think you make a great point about a networks ability to thwart iframing. I don't even know how much they care about it. Something that has always bothered me is the fact that it almost seems that advertisers design their landing pages to make it easier for them to be iframed... lol i dunno, maybe I am just a conspiracy nut :crazy:
     
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  13. fotran

    fotran Newbie

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    Yes, for some reason it redirects to some page and says that it was invalid traffic or something.
     
  14. music4mic

    music4mic Registered Member

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    I'm a little confused here. Unless the offer says no iframes aloud, it's typically ok. I've even had AM encourage it. And nearly always they will give you a warning before/cut you off the offer if there is a problem with your leads.
     
  15. moneygame

    moneygame Junior Member

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    LOL no I understand completely what you are saying man. But yeah, IMO you are right 100% about advertisers not getting iframed *to an extent*. The reason being is think about it, if you have an offer that say is giving away fr groceries, you are only going to be targeting people who want fr groceries. So most people think that any sort of other traffic would be bad for the advertisers, in some cases this is true, but 90% of the time it is not. The reason being is if you fill out the offer yourself, you will notice often (especially with the ones for like fr electronics and stuff) that you are taken to a page with all kinds of offers, credit reports, teeth whiteners, and much more stuff.

    The thing is affiliate marketing is halfway shady in itself (in my opinion of course) so they are turning the other way when shady stuff happens (iframing). Like you said, some networks do care, but the thing is if the advertisers really did care, they would throw up the easy code you suggested above and do away with 99% of iframers out there, but the fact of the matter is they don't, and that is why like you said, you see so many landing pages that look like they were made to iframe, because frankly, if an advertiser limits their traffic to something like "fr kohl's whatever" then they are limiting themselves to people who only want those types of specific. Now, if the affiliates (us) can make it seem like whatever we want, then that opens up the door for about 100 times as much traffic. And like I said, the reason why they want more traffic is because they are NOT, and I repeat NOT even just promoting that one whatever that the offer is for. They want to share your info, address, and get you to sign up on the back end for as many things as you can. Sign up for an email submit once and you will see exactly what I mean :)
     
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  16. moneygame

    moneygame Junior Member

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    Sorry for all of the weird words too man, since I am new I keep triggering the anti-spam system so it is blocking out certain words which is why my post might be halfway hard to understand.
     
  17. fotran

    fotran Newbie

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    I thought this method works on pages like FB where you get auto redirected with certain cpa networks.
     
  18. moneygame

    moneygame Junior Member

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    No you are correct, unless they specifically say iframing is not allowed either in the networks ToS or in the offer's ToS it is very much allowed, and often encouraged.