1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What is Fraud?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by gbmack, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. gbmack

    gbmack Power Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    686
    Many twats here at BHW are misinformed of the definition of fraud.

    This thread serves as an example:
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...1614-some-you-fuckers-need-stop-scamming.html

    The OP says "99% of the blackhatters on CL are just being blackhat, while the other 1% are committing nice federal crimes.."


    There are so many inconsistencies in that post...





    Fraud: is an intentional deception made for personal gain OR to damage another individual.

    Notice the OR in that sentence. Fraud doesn't have to be both personal gain and damage to another individual, it just has to be one.

    In most of our cases here at BHW, it's usually the former, "personal gain."

    Many of us post at Craigslist. And many of us earn through blackhat methods.

    Let's take the Craigslist jobs method as our example.
    You're tricking someone looking for a job into filling out your CPA offer.
    In the end that person never gets a job, and you profit.
    That's fraud right there.

    How about iframing e-mail submits?
    Let's say we offer a free xbox 360 if you enter your e-mail address in this little iframed box. That person never gets an xbox 360, and you profit. Fraud.

    E-whoring?
    Most of the time, you're telling someone to sign up at a dating website for a specific reason, maybe to get to communicate through a "trusted" website so you can filter out the sex predators. Either way, you are giving the victim an incentive, and they fill out your CPA offer or form. The victim never gets what he/she wants (to meet up with you, talk with you, see your profile, or w/e they want) and you profit. Fraud.

    Now of course, there are many cases in which fraud isn't committed.
    If you iframe an e-mail submit and tell the user to enter their e-mail address for a naked pic of jessica alba, and they actually get a naked pic of jessica alba after entering their e-mail address, then it's not fraud. But most of the time a blackhatter doesn't give the victim what the victim wants because they can't do anythign about it.

    fraud = illegal which is a federal offense.

    I'm assuming a large chunk of BHW does CPA and posts on Craigslist, incentivizing their offers, but the victim never gets it. In that case it would be illegal because it is fraud.

    However, what are the punishments? It's very unlikely you will get anything other than a banned CPA account. Seriously. The gov doesn't give a shit.

    Finally, there are different levels of fraud.
    The type of fraud the average BHW user commits is very, very low on the "fraud scale." (like stealing vegetables from the grocery store)


    Now there are always "higher" levels of fraud like stealing financial information, but you get my point.



    OH! And about that thread, DON'T USE THAT METHOD!!!
    The person who orders the free trial will call the advertiser and say "WHERE THE FUCK IS MY $1200!?!" And of course they will forward an e-mail copy and the advertiser will see the $1200 offered. The advertiser will contact the affiliate network to get you banned. No more no less.

    Even if you say you will get payed in 30 days, the victim will see a $100 charge a week later, and the advertiser will be notified and boom you're banned.

    All in all, BHW is a place to discuss illegal activites and most of us are scammers, but we just aren't bigtime scammers.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  2. angelas111

    angelas111 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,569
    Likes Received:
    1,016
    Location:
    ohio
    agreed. however not all fraud is created equally. i don't want to run campaigns that will hurt anyone. or cause any financial distress to people. i can sleep at night knowing that i am actually helping my leads by providing exactly what they are looking for. you can be blackhat and still have morals at the same time.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. danchoksy

    danchoksy BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    28
    bam! right on the money.. i guess everything is fraud, but if you read carefully i am ok with a lot of stuff, not just fucking over someone like that.. an email submit doesnt hurt much, tellin someone they have been hired, and to incur some charges & you will refund them, hurts a lot.. thats why i have a problem with it..
     
  4. gimmedat

    gimmedat Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    52
    Occupation:
    cartographer
    Location:
    VA
    I'm adding you all to The Shit List, you can be sure of that.

    Filthy Fraudsters.
     
  5. Remington

    Remington Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    148
    Finally someone has a clue about the law! I see so many "what we wish" definitions of fraud here that sometimes I think people (those who should be carefully hiding, but aren't) would be shocked if the feds showed up at their door.

    "Ignorance is no defense" against criminal charges; that's why I make sure to know for sure what the law says! I want to KNOW if I'll need a Belize/Cayman Island/Philippines address before pulling some method.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. ForeverNever

    ForeverNever Power Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    727
    Likes Received:
    365
    This is a good post and it really signifies the fact that blackhat will be dead one day because this relatively un-policed industry will one day, maybe soon, become a heavily policed industry.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. danchoksy

    danchoksy BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    28
    Thanks guys, at least some people see my point.. many people here are violating federal laws left and right, and dont even know it..

    if you are gonna be doing some illegal shit at least move to a different country, or make sure your affiliate company can western union you (haha)
     
  8. heiny

    heiny Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    103
    Good thing not all of us is in the US. Thank God
     
  9. tonlilaz

    tonlilaz Executive VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,558
    Likes Received:
    1,700
    Occupation:
    Deleting crappy threads on BHW, making good use of
    Location:
    Over There
    Home Page:
    'What is Fraud?'.....sounds like the name of that one dance song...


    'What is Fraud?
    Baby Don't Scam Me, Don't Scam Me...No More
    Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh
    Whoa whoa whoa, oooh oooh '

    i'd add my opinion on the matter, but honestly, this entire subject isn't worth getting banned over...

    ;)




     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1