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Volation of U.S Law? False Bank Account..

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by MarkKB, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. MarkKB

    MarkKB Newbie

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    Hello

    Im wondering if it's a violation of U.S law for American citizen to open a OFFSHORE BANK ACCOUNT under false identity (false docs / photo ID)... Is he violating U.S law since the account isn't being opens in The U.S? Also what if person uses postal service to deliver bank docs - anything illegal there?

    Note: the purpose of opening such a bank account is NOT for ANYTHING ILLEGAL. Don't ask why someone would need this.

    Anyone?

    Thanks
     
  2. fun4uoc

    fun4uoc Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    This is a bad place to ask for legal advice.

    If you're serious about this you need to consult with an attorney.

    Oh, yeah, and the United States takes their Tax revenue VERY seriously...
     
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  3. SH44tre

    SH44tre Newbie

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    I don't think setting up the account itself would be bad.. but putting any money in it could be. If you have offshore funds and don't tell the government they are owned by you (so they can keep track of and tax it) I believe that's tax evasion. Not a big deal unless you get audited (tons of people get away with it) but I wouldn't, personally.

    I know forging identification documents is illegal (passport, driver's licence, birth certificates, Social security, etc.) but I'm not sure if just filling a fake name and address on an online form counts, I think that's between you and the bank itself.

    EDIT: to let you know how serious the states is about their taxes, a relative of mine who has been living in Canada for the past 40 years has been issued a bill for retroactive taxes, because they just passed a bill saying that americans living in other countries still have to pay US tax, even if they have no assets in the states, and haven't been official american citizens in years.

    Basically, just because you're born there, the gov't apparently has a right to tax whatever money you make, wherever you live.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Regular Member

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    i dont know much about us law, but if you are committing any kind of tax evasion then its illegal.
    But like someone earlier said that you need someone who knows this stuff eg an attorney or someone,ask them
     
  5. ja1myn

    ja1myn Senior Member

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    Don't screw with the IRS. It's not worth it. They will find you and they'll do everything in their power (which is pretty much limitless) to make sure you never forget your mistake.
     
  6. MarkKB

    MarkKB Newbie

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    Why is everyone giving me tax advice when I wrote this is not for anything illegal?

    All this has nothing to do w my question
     
  7. SH44tre

    SH44tre Newbie

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    It's illegal if you use it to evade taxes.

    This is not necessarily intentional, it could be a by-product of having offshore accounts.

    Just because you're not doing anything illegal with the money doesn't mean you aren't violating law by just having it there.

    Tax advice = advice to avoid illegality.

    Has everything to do with your question.

    EDIT: also see my earlier post about forging documents. I don't think you've actually read or understood "All this" as much of it does, in fact, pertain to your question.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  8. fun4uoc

    fun4uoc Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    If that's what you think, then you're a fucking idiot...

    More than likely, in the eyes of the U.S. fake overseas account=TAX EVASION!!!

    And Tax evasion=what???

    Thats right, illegal.
     
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  9. damagesmith

    damagesmith Regular Member

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    This has been the laws for years. It has not just passed. What has just passed is they are getting tougher with enforcement. Also its not the states that is doing it, if your relative has been living in Canada for the last 40 years, he does not owe any state money, be it the state of Newyork or the state of wisconsin. He might however owe the Government of the United States money.


    EDIT: to let you know how serious the states is about their taxes, a relative of mine who has been living in Canada for the past 40 years has been issued a bill for retroactive taxes, because they just passed a bill saying that americans living in other countries still have to pay US tax, even if they have no assets in the states, and haven't been official american citizens in years.

    Basically, just because you're born there, the gov't apparently has a right to tax whatever money you make, wherever you live.[/QUOTE]
     
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  10. damagesmith

    damagesmith Regular Member

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    Now to try to answer your question
    is it illegal for a US Citizen to falsify information when opening a foreign bank account
    the short answer is yes.
    The reason is that the USA has what is called reciprocal agreements. To falsify your id is illegal in most countries, and even if you are not directly breaking a use
    law, the United States will respect the last in the country that you have broken and will work with that country to enforce it.
     
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  11. MarkKB

    MarkKB Newbie

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    Thanks this is the info I was looking for.Does this mean that the U.S won't care / intervene unless prompted by another country?
     
  12. SH44tre

    SH44tre Newbie

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    Interesting... Even though the person is not an american citizen according to other national government agencies? (Revoked dual-citizenship years ago). I guess I'm just having trouble believing that a government body would be so... invasive.. to citizens of other countries.

    I should have clarified that 'states' = abbreviation for United 'states' of america
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  13. damagesmith

    damagesmith Regular Member

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    If you are paying your USA Taxes, and you are not breaking any Direct USA Laws then, the chances are the USA government wont interfere.
    But and this is the but, how do you plan on paying your US Taxes. For example you open an account in country Timbuktoo. You tell the USA government that you got
    12,000 dollars in a bank account in Timbuktoo, as you need to compley with FABR (or some name like that) so the IRS sends out a letter to the bank in Timbuktoo asking for verification and saying can you please confirm thar Markkb has an accountwith $12,000 dollars in it. The bank in Timbuktoo never heard of you, and writes back we have not customer named Markkb. So that will start the ball rolling, now what is your plan?
     
  14. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    If the person dropped u.s. citizenship but failed to pay back taxes,then they would still have to pay those back taxes as well as interest. But earnings after they gave up citizenship would not taxed by the u.s. government.
     
  15. SH44tre

    SH44tre Newbie

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    That is what's happening, however. They came after her once quite a while back for taxes. She paid them off and renounced her dual-citizenship to avoid more taxation, and as she was now a full Canadian citizen, it really wasn't that big a change.

    However, now they have returned stating that since she is an american citizen by birth, she still owes taxes from after revoking her citizenship to now (as you can't give up your birthright, I guess? Even though she doesn't have any of the rights of a citizen...). It just doesn't seem to make any sense. She's fortunate enough to be able to afford a good lawyer, but she's been threatened that if she doesn't pay soon, she will be arrested should she enter the US, and the legal costs are going to come close to what they claim she owes anyway...
     
  16. Roparadise

    Roparadise BANNED BANNED

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    The IRS is going to lose in court
     
  17. SH44tre

    SH44tre Newbie

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    fingers crossed
     
  18. MarkKB

    MarkKB Newbie

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    Bec I will have two bank accounts in Timbuktoo 1 w real name 1 w fake name. The funds from fake account will be transfered to real account and I will report that account for taxes...
     
  19. iampresent

    iampresent Junior Member

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    yeah seriously enough to have a presidential candidate that has paid less in taxes than its average citizen, and more thank likely has an offshore account.
     
  20. zebrahat

    zebrahat Elite Member

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    If you are a statutory 'US citizen' or 'US person' you are supposed to disclose all offshore financial accounts and income, and are subject to IRS jurisdiction, including all it's determinations regarding your tax liability. BUT, (as per tax honesty advocates) most Americans are NOT 'US citizens' or persons as legally defined (public officers or government workers who receive federal privileges, who are domiciled in Washington, DC or other federal territories), thus NOT subject to IRS jurisdiction, determinations or reporting requirements.

    The IRS still tries to presume universal jurisdiction over everybody, and bakes prejudicial language into all its standard forms to make you admit to being their tax slave under your signature, before you can earn or deposit funds anywhere, but their presumptions do not equal the facts. As a practical matter as the path of least resistance, most Americans seeking to lawfully avoid the misapplication of US tax laws to their situation can retain their property and financial privacy through using pseudonym identities in non-US based accounts. This tactic permits you to avoid the automatic tracking of your activity by SSN/tax ID that leads to the misapplication in the first place.

    As for the Romneys of the world paying a smaller percentage of taxes than other US taxpayers, it's just a fact that most wealthy peoples' earnings are in the form of passive income, and passive income is taxed at a lower rate than is active (i.e., job) income, even if deductions are not considered. Money controlled in corporations and trusts are going to always have favored tax treatment as long as they are permitted in the law, as that is a main reason for their existence.