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Tired of "freelancers"

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by tygrus, Jun 11, 2010.

  1. tygrus

    tygrus Supreme Member

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    Am I the only one that is frustrated working with these people?

    Most of the ones I have hired are:

    - either downright rude and culturally insensitive
    - cannot express themselves properly
    - do not bother to read and understand instructions
    - ask for extra payment when they misunderstand the work
    - are doing freelancing work part time, therefore put your work at the bottom of the priority list
    - constantly have sick relatives to attend to.
    - declare themselves as experts in every field so they can get more work, but cannot actually do the work (i.e. write clear english)
    - underestimate the work and timeframe
    - are not financially sound and therefore always need to you to pay them outside of the freelancer.com system cause they can't afford the $5 admin fee.

    Fortunately, I am almost done hiring these people. I have loaded up on a lot of automated software and will be doing it myself.

    I would never consider outsourcing my business because these people are not trustworthy unless I am supervising them in person.
     
  2. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    There are those that you describe but there are some guys on there that
    absolutely rock. I have a handful of guys that I use from Bangladesh who
    are outstanding... polite, work hard, provide a quality service, do the work
    in a timely manner and appreciate the work we offer them.

    A buddy and I refer to them as the Boys from Bangladesh.
     
  3. blazen

    blazen Regular Member

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    Well do you go for the ones with the high ratings or just the cheapest? Also there are other sites you post projects.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  4. digitalworldz

    digitalworldz Regular Member

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    I agree with blazen, work only with thouse who have a lot of positive reviews and you will be just fine...
     
  5. TheInternetHustler

    TheInternetHustler Regular Member

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    I have worked with excellent outsources with low rates from odesk. I have worked with many people from the Philippines, Bangladesh and elsewhere that speak english well and work hard for low rates. You should try odesk or something, your just doing a poor job of hiring.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  6. vebxperts

    vebxperts Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Have a look at my profile on freelancer website. Apart from that, have a look at my profile here on BHW.

    My opinion is, there are bad service providers as well as good service providers available on freelancer. Same like, there are bad buyers as well as good buyers available on freelancer. This is your luck that you meet a good guy or a bad one.

    Wishing you best of luck for your future ventures.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. dheer

    dheer Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    to the OP. I agree with most of your points but these are those guys who don't do it as a full time job.. They just do it for extra income and in spare time.. but there are lot of guys you can find on Elance, Freelancer or Odesk that provides you the services you deserve at a fair price..

    and as for selecting freelancer for your particular work I would suggest you to first check their profiles personally and read the reviews provided by their earlier clients for the relative jobs. I'm also a freelancer and doing it from past 2 Years so I know there are a lot of guys you can find there with higher ratings.. but these are all FAKE reviews exchanged with a circle of guys to put them on top on the list so they can get more jobs based on their ratings and feedbacks. Here most of the NEW outsourcers fail according to me. So you guys must be aware while visiting their profile to check if you are seeing many reviews posted by same guys again and again and exchanged to each other then you are going to be ripped off even if you hired a higher ratings provider.

    moral of the story, you need to be very careful while dealing with freelancers and your budget must be FAIR enough for the work you assign them.. as I feel that most of the guys who outsource their businesses wants to get their jobs done with very cheap rates.. which is not at all fair. Just think what if the same thing happens with you..? can you provide the quality work with such cheap rates? I don't think so..
     
  8. MisterGemini

    MisterGemini Senior Member

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    It takes quite a bit of time to figure out how the freelancer circuit works. I have lost tens of thousands of dollars to bad freelancers. I was paying them well too... How much you pay them has nothing to do with it. It's knowing how to spot the real deal, or someone who is screwing around with your money.

    Perhaps the best advice I can offer is to always always always always always always (did I say it enough?) get the terms of the project clear BEFORE you hire them. Before you award them the project. Talk about everything before hand to get a feel for who you are dealing with.

    I can understand your frustrations, I been there many many times. Sadly being impressed with the work I hired freelancers for is rarity rather than a norm.
     
  9. sipser

    sipser Newbie

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    To OP. As a freelancer previously, I have an answer for you:

    How much are you paying them?

    If you go around hiring people looking for a deal, you'll find shit.

    If you want to hire someone from America, ask yourself this - why aren't they already making $60k a year (modest programmer salary) working at a job? This is $5k/mo, full time. Without looking for work. Without dealing with cheapasses and idiots. Steady paycheck.

    Either way. What I'm saying is. Anyone charging less than $60/h and is good at programming (for example) has other mental issues and you better learn to deal with them. Or pay people with no mental issues what they are worth.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  10. sipser

    sipser Newbie

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    I agree and disagree at the same time. You have to balance paying well and learning to manage them. If you don't want to manage, you'll have to pay agency fees that have a physical office and project managers to oversee freelancer's performance. That, or pay extra $$ (4x-5x yearly salary, in hourly rate) to people with solid track record and portfolio.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
  11. sipser

    sipser Newbie

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    FYI, OP it goes on both ends. The reason I stopped freelancing is cause I got fed up and was constantly frustrated by working with people who have no business running a business.
     
  12. tygrus

    tygrus Supreme Member

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    Thanks for the advices. Yes there are some shenanigans going on with regard to the ratings of some of these freelancers so that is something to watch for.

    At this point though, I really only need link building and the odd article rewritten. I loaded up on scrapebox, social submitter and bookmark demon so I can do the link building myself, maybe SENuke too.
     
  13. len2503

    len2503 Junior Member

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    IMHO - the main reason, and some would argue the only reason
    why outsourcing fails, is that YOU the buyer have not specified
    the process properly.

    If you write up the process on a step by step basis with pictures and movies
    you can get ANY job done.

    But you gotta know how to do it yourself first


    my 2c

    len 2503
     
  14. MisterGemini

    MisterGemini Senior Member

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    I've tried that once with project managers and code checkers, lost $20k in the process. Not much you can do when they are in India either.

    Like I said before, learning to deal with freelancers is a process you can only figure out on your own over time.

    In all honesty, I believe that there is a fairly large segment of the market made up of guys who do nothing but skim the listings of jobs bidding $10 on everything in the hopes of picking up a newbie sucker. Say whatever they think the guy wants to hear just so they can get that $10. Take his money, then just keep stringing him along until he gives up. They have a list of various excuses to make it just drag on. Really, just how is it so many people who are freelancers seem to get bird flu right in the middle of a project? I can't even count how many times I have heard this not only with my projects, but others who hired freelancers.

    Or the 'I need partial payment now before I start work' even after they agreed to escrow payment on delivery. If I am a newbie, sure I expect a degree of distrust. If I am an established buyer with dozens and dozens of top reviews with a perfect score, then there is no reason for that. Everytime I mistakenly awarded a project to someone like this, I drop them on the spot and find someone else. You don't start an agreement by breaking it. These types of 'skimmers' make up a good 60% of bids on projects I have posted over the years. For people in any weaker to USD economy nation, all they need is 2-3 guys to hook each day for $10 and they are making a satisfying living. It's not a living though, it's theft. People of western culture cannot understand the absence of pride in work, or the sheer sense of survivalism that exists out there, and so this behaviour is just frustrating and confusing for most.

    In Africa, it is expected when you hire a guy, he is going to get part of the job done before he disappears. You then have to hire someone else to carry on and complete it. This isn't just online, this is the way it is for everything there. You budget work to be done, you always build in having to pay someone else to get the job done. In the Western world, you don't finish, you just sue the guy for it. There are consequences. In those parts of the world, there are no consequences, it's just survival. You say ANYTHING to get the job. You claim you can do things, when you really cannot. It's survival.

    Which is why over the years as more people got experienced they started gravitating to dealing with people in their own countries. At least they had a sense of how to deal with them.

    Legitimate freelancers have to deal with these things as well, since the dirt sticks to them as well by association of industry. Sort of like if you associate yourself with being a BHer, people call you a spammer.

    The OP has felt the brutality of the freelance world, and hopefully he has learned something from it. It seems a lot of you here were on the freelancer end of things and have had your fair share of issues. Both sides suck period, the only way above it all is to really put a lot of effort into who you select for a project, and as a freelancer, who you do business with.
     
  15. Hierarchy

    Hierarchy Regular Member

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    my best advice is to ask the right questions to ensure that you are hiring the right person. i have always hired 5 to 10 people for a small task first before deciding who to hire full time. after eliminating freelancers who dont work out you will find some decent sources. i was pretty frustrated too when it came to hiring freelancers but just like anything else nothing comes easy to anyone or else we would all be rich.
     
  16. kaidoristm

    kaidoristm Power Member

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    Always ask for prevorious work.
    Don't ever look those 10$ per project(day) dudes.
    Ask for contact information email,name and so on.
    Always Google their username,name,email.
    If something looks shady don't deal with him.
     
  17. Jason_parker700

    Jason_parker700 Regular Member

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    I am so damn happy to be living in India, cos here i have about 50-70 college students willing to work for 30 rupees per article, which is about 70 cents. Very soon i am going to be hiring these guys to write articles for me that i can sell on Constant content. Just waiting for a little startup money, hehe.
     
  18. arain

    arain Registered Member

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    I will suggest not to go with the cheapest one or either with those of too many rating try to stick with the people with 50+ and below 100 and you will do fine and try not to make them work for free pay them a fair price things will go fine
     
  19. MisterGemini

    MisterGemini Senior Member

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    Wow.. you can make a mint just taking the articles and submitting them to AC and places like that. $0.70 comes back at $3-$4. That's more than 300% ROI. If you can get 50 of them working for you turning out just 3 high quality ones a day, you would be making $10k a month AFTER your expenses and even including some bonuses for good work.

    I dunno about you, but I would get that seed money together FAST and get on top of that, before someone else does.
     
  20. nice1

    nice1 Regular Member

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    have you raed the four hour work week - its all about outsorcing - looks interesting - more virtula PA's than frellance hiring -