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This is why I don't give you a job

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by Ricky Roma, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. Ricky Roma

    Ricky Roma Regular Member

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    I could hire 12 people with ?760 net salary, but I don't. I tell you why. You could work for my service provider company in a nice office. It's not telemarketing, it's not a scam. You would do serious work that requires high skills, 8 hours daily, only weekdays. I would employ you legally, I would pay your taxes and social security. I could give such a job to a dozen people, but I will not, and here I explain why.

    I wouldn't hire a woman.

    The reason is very simple: women give birth to children. I don't have the right to ask if she still wanted to. If I had the right, and she would answer, she could deceive me deliberately or she could change her mind.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't have any problem with women giving birth to children. That's how I was born and that's how my child was born. I wouldn't hire a woman because when she gets pregnant, she goes for a 3 years maternity leave, during which I can't fire her. If she wants two children, the vacation is 6 years long.

    Of course, work has to be done, so I would have to hire somebody who works instead of her while she is spending her long holiday years. But not only I couldn't fire her while she's away, I couldn't fire her when she comes back either. So I would have to fire the one who's been working instead of her for the whole time. When a woman would come back from the maternity leave I would be legally forced to increase her salary to the present level in her position, and also, give out her normal vacation days, that she has collected during the maternity leave. When she would come back to work, she would start with 2-4 months of fully paid vacation.

    I wouldn't hire people over 50 either.

    Not that I have any problem with the most experienced professionals. I wouldn't hire them, because they are soon in the protected age. And then I would be trapped with them, similar to the trap with employing women. You can't fire people in the protected age, so I would have to pay the salary and its total cost even if he or she doesn't work well or at least up to acceptable standards. I couldn't fire the protected employee, but someone would have to do the job right, so I would have to hire another person. It's all right with me if they're protected, but then I won't hire them.

    I would only hire 25-50 years old men.

    They're also risky to hire, because I don't have the right to fire them either, if for any reason (I don't have enough income, or I don't like how they work) I want to. There's a high risk that they will go to court, and there's a high chance they will win. But this risk I would be prepared to handle.

    You would cost me ?1572.Your Net Salary: Your Gross Salary: My Total Cost: State markup:
    ? 185 ? 238 ? 306 165%
    ? 227 ? 306 ? 393 173%
    ? 322 ? 458 ? 589 183%
    ? 408 ? 612 ? 786 193%
    ? 479 ? 765 ? 982 205%
    ? 570 ? 917 ? 1178 207%
    ? 760 ? 1223 ? 1572 207%
    ? 950 ? 1529 ? 1965 207%


    This is actual 2011 data from the www.nettober.com salary calculator. As you can see, your ?760 salary would cost my company ?1572. This 2x state multiplier could only be lower, if I would pay less salary. But I wouldn't hire you for less money, because I think if you made less then ?760, you couldn't make a decent living. You would become depressed, destroy your own life, my company and even me. So, I am not willing to hire anybody for less than this.

    It's only Hungary that is so fucked up:

    [​IMG]

    This chart is from a Deloitte study. As you can see, the state doesn't take away more than half of your salary anywhere else. It's annoying that I pay you more than ?1500, but you only receive less than half of it. Especially, because you will not get any better medical care than anybody registered with a minimum wage.

    I would also have to take into consideration, that a 35 years old person is entitled 25 days of vacation per year. That means 1 extra month of working days. If I needed 12 persons' work, I would have to employ 13 to account for the one who's on vacation.

    But I would still give you a job despite all of the above.

    I am a braveheart entrepreneur. I would sell my apartment, and I would move to a rented flat. I would hope, that the ?90,000 that I would make this way will be enough. I would launch my business bravely, and if I didn't succeed (that is quite likely with startups) I wouldn't be a crybaby.

    My company would provide an excellent service, and it's impossible to provide without decent working conditions. I would employ 13 people. I would constantly need 12 persons' work, plus the one who works instead of the one on vacation. 14 people including me would work in the 158 sqm nicely furbished, comfortable office. This would cost 10 ?/sqm/month rent, and 3,5 ?/sqm/month utility fees, a total of 2133 ?/month.

    These would be my monthly expenses:

    Office: ? 2,133
    Wages: 13 x ?1572 = ? 20,436
    Other expenses (accounting, marketing, etc.): ? 3,058
    Total: ? 25,627

    Pretty scary for monthly bills isn't it? This is how much I would have to pay out every month, regardless of my income. In the good months, and the bad months too. In the summer low season, and before Christmas when we do much less work.

    This company couldn't possibly sell more than 1000 hours / month of billable service in the average month. This means, that to break even, in order to make enough income to cover my costs, I would need to set my pricing ?25,627 / 1000 = ?25 / hour. But breaking even isn't enough, I would also need some profit.

    I am not greedy, the market is tough too, I would markup my prices with 20% profit. This would increase my hourly rate to ?30, that is pronounced as thirty Euros plus VAT, ?37,5. I would round this sum (down), so our customers would pay ?37 / hour for our service.

    Out of this ?37, 7 would go directly to the state, 30 would be company income. I am an optimist person. Our marketing would kick ass, my plans would work perfectly, indeed we would succeed selling an average of 1000 hours of service monthly. Business would fly, I would be lucky with all my employees, everybody would work like a charm.

    This would generate 1000 x ?30 = ?30,000 company income.

    ?4,373 would be profit. I could pay ?2,446 gross salary to myself, that would cost my company ?3,144. Out of that, ?1,521 would be my net salary, almost the double of what my employees make, and the company would make ?948 profit before taxation. Out of this, I would pay ?95 corporate tax, and the local business tax, that is 2% of company income, that is ?587. At the end, the company would have ?266 left, this is how much my company's capital could grow per month.

    So I would make ?1,521 per month, but don't forget, that I sold my ?90,000 apartment, and I invested it in the company. So I would have to rent a flat for at least ?300, otherwise I would become homeless. I would live a modest life, wouldn't spend a lot, my wife would also make money, I wouldn't even have the time to spend a lot, because unlike my employees, I would work 12 hours even on the weekends.

    This way I could save ?900 per month, so my ?90,000 investment would return in 100 months. It would take 9 years to recover the money that I invested in the company, so I could buy myself an apartment again. From then on I wouldn't have to live on a tight budget, I wouldn't have to pay rents, and wouldn't have to save either. I would live like a European.

    Under these circumstances - I hope it's understandable - I don't feel strongly urged to sell my apartment and invest the money into a new company. But for 4 reasons I will definitely not do it.
    The competition sells the same service, but illegally, under really crappy circumstances, charging ?9 per hour. They simply pocket the money, without even issuing an invoice, it doesn't even include the VAT. They don't have to take any responsibility, there are no warranties, they officially don't even do anything, there's not even an official, legal trace of their existence. They don't have to rent an office, hire an accountant. By doing this 5 hours a day, they can easily make ?1,000. They would point their middle fingers to my ?760 job offer, where they wouldn't be allowed to do crappy work, but show up in time every day and meet very high professional standards in their work, they wouldn't be allowed to defraud the customers, and if they did, they would be fired.
    The competition would do smear campaigns against my company. I would have to face anti-capitalist propaganda, I would be seen as a greedy asshole who charges ?37 for what they charge ?9, I would be an enemy of the nice Hungarian people, while others work honestly for the fraction of my price...
    Many of my employees would only come to work for me to learn my business secrets and to steal my clients. They would lure them by lying that they will get the same value and quality of service, but at the fraction of the price. After they stole enough clients, they would deliberately cause a lot of harm to my company to get themselves fired. They would then go to court, stating that I fired them illegally, and they would win the case. In the meantime, they would of course work happily for the stolen clientele, that has cost me a fortune to build up. And of course they would be offended. They would trumpet on all kind of forums, that they have worked for my company, they know what they're talking about. Not only it is very expensive, but the service is a piece of crap too.
    Complaining about all this wouldn't help, no one would give a flying fuck.

    So this is why I don't give a job. And I think a lot of other entrepreneurs who have experienced it, will also not give a job because of this. And this is why more and more people are jobless, who buy less and less things, so they pay less and less VAT. And this is why there are less and less decent companies, who hire less and less employees, who pay less and less taxes, so there's less and less state money for social aids, and this is why social aid is about to come in the form of concentration camps.

    I will only give a job if:
    I can fire you, if I want to.
    If VAT goes down to at least 20%, better yet 15%.
    If the state takes away "only" 30% of your money.
    If higher income is not exponentially punished.
    If the state punishes corruption instead of decent companies.

    Until these things don't change, hell I don't give a job. Until the state promotes corruption in every possible aspect, I don't start a business, and I don't give a job.



    *This is not my text, I copied it from: http://andorjakab.blog.hu/2012/01/06/this_is_why_i_don_t_give_you_a_job *
     
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  2. tribulus-tv

    tribulus-tv Newbie

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    Sad bu true.
     
  3. IamNRE

    IamNRE Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Too long; short it down to a few sentences.
     
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  4. w84it

    w84it Regular Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Bonaparte

    Bonaparte Registered Member

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    I'm not in Hungary, but that was a nice read, would read again.
     
  6. TheIllestBrew

    TheIllestBrew Registered Member

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    Every goddamn sentence has the word "would."
     
  7. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Let 's TAX it :D
     
  8. DamageX

    DamageX Elite Member

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    Thank fuck for independent online contractors, to whom you can outsource your work!

    Oh and I agree with the text. The "can't fire people" rule is virtually omnipresent throughout the EU, in various forms. State shouldn't fuck with the markets in any way, just run defense and the justice system. All the rest should be left to the free market.
     
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  9. Bonaparte

    Bonaparte Registered Member

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    Haha, I just noticed, this would be a good time to promote my new article spinner.
     
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  10. pisco

    pisco Regular Member

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    I'm from Portugal, and i thought my 30% were high...

    >50% is really a killer number.
     
  11. twilightofidols

    twilightofidols Power Member

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    Tell us more I've ever HUNGARY for knowledge
     
  12. Ricky Roma

    Ricky Roma Regular Member

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    @IamNRE It is rant from EU entrepreneur. He writes about hiring "protected class", taxes and regulation.
     
  13. bigg_capp

    bigg_capp Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    So this isn't even your Rant?
     
  14. B7s4quattro

    B7s4quattro Newbie

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    what the hell am i reading? could you breif it into a few sentences
     
  15. TNphoneman

    TNphoneman Senior Member

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    And people complain about the US and tell us to move to Europe... LOL By the way my grandparents are from the Hungarian/Romanian border area and they came to the US in 1957 and said they would only go back to visit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  16. Dally

    Dally Junior Member

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    I learnt about that in economics the other day. I agree that the government should intervine less, but shouldn't stop completely. The labour market always fails when left to market forces (demand & supply)
     
  17. xboxps3wow

    xboxps3wow Power Member

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    why not just link to the article?
     
  18. jazzc

    jazzc Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    How would the law of demand & supply ever lead to failure? :(
     
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  19. matei

    matei Junior Member

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    DUDES, READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE, you lazy dogs.
    It's one of the best articles I've read this year, and gues what, it's true. Government is killing the mall entrepreneurs with their insanely huge taxes.

    Stay illegal all the way!
     
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  20. DamageX

    DamageX Elite Member

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    No, it doesn't. You can still form unions and do collective bargaining on both sides. You just wouldn't have to hit a floor of minimum wage laws and other crap that the government adds in, which weakens the market forces and stifles growth and innovation.
     
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