Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by shailzrocks, Feb 21, 2013.
shailzrocks that's deep
I wonder how much was the production cost.
Really good stuff. I watched it few hours back and I watched it again. Thanks for sharing.
Vid was nice, voice over was awesome, positive parts were ok, parts about bullying were crap. Why? Because bullying builds character. Is part of life. Is a social thing. We live on Earth where there are also assholes not just fluffy angels that smile at you. You have to learn to hold your ground.
Kids who are depressed and suicide or whatever were weaker, but was not the bullying that made them like that. That was just an excuse of some sort. Thing is many if not most parents do their best to raise their children and i guess they think they do a great job. At the end of the day however they're probably too busy with life to actually really notice their child, the subtle signs about him. You don't go from happy to depressed to death over night. It takes time. What's worse parents are sometimes part of the problem. Either because of abuses of any sort or even just because they're too busy to guide their child into positive thinking or even worse because they themselves have crappy thinking they project onto their children.
Bullying can be positive. If you hold your ground and you don't crumble you learn from it, it empowers you. However some kids by the time they start to get bullied are already half broken and the bullying is just the drop that fills the glass maybe.
Seen vids on youtube from kids that were making a big deal out of bullying, responses from adults and other kids as well feeling for them. Whole thing viral and a big deal. GTFO! You can't tell me you got to cut your arms, wrists, whatever because some kid of similar age is bullying you at school. No, that's the lest of your problems. Your real problem is your thinking, kid. Your thinking is fucked up! Life throws shit at you. You choose whether you dig deeper and roll in the shit pile and feel defeated or if you get up, clean yourself and learn to spot it and duck when shit flies towards you.
All that aside, USA is fucked up in many ways, this being one. Kids supposedly have ADHD and stuff and you give them pills. They depressed, you give them pills, they don't understand math you give them pills, they agitated you give them pills, they calm you give them pills. WTF is that? Just let them be. Maybe they're naturally agitated or calm or not wired for math or maybe they just don't like paying attention to same shit for 2 hours straight. Is normal. Let them be. Then you have kids bringing a pen, a notebook and a machine gun at school and shooting those who pissed them. This is not normal. I guess some would say this is the price you pay from being so pro-war. Yeah, maybe it's karma payback and the effect of all the advertisement of fighting and shit news but fuck that. In the end is a matter of choices and crap mentalities. When i was in highschool some kids would come with switchblades to look grown-up and badass. everybody knew they'd never have the stupidity (because is not about courage) to cut somebody. If they would have bought a gun at school everybody in the school would have probably beat the shit out of them. I'm not kidding you. And buying a fire arm on the black market here is pretty much impossible for the average Joe not to mention for a kid. Here parents would literally fuck up somebody if something like that happened. There's one thing to have a fight as kids and there's another to have your child stabbed by another kid. Not normal.
Bottom line - stop whining about bullying and all that. That is not a real problem. If you think it is you're worse than a pussy. When he was 20yo my grandpa would weekly cross the woods at night and keep his shit when wolves would come (he wasn't alone but that's irrelevant). He'd walk about once a month about 40km+40km back to get to the city and buy shit. WALK! I get cramps and leg pain if i walk 5-10km. He worked since 14yo till 65yo roughly 14 hours/day, every day, including Sunday. Ancestors from 100 years ago had an even tougher life. 500 years ago even worse. So stop fucking whining about bullying.
I didn't really like the video, both the animation and the narration.
Weak argument, let 's refute it
How about a beating? Does beating a kid build a character?
How about torture? Does torturing a fellow human helps build his character? Where the slave drivers performing a humanitarian service?
So is murder, rape, theft. Do you condone those as well?
Any voluntary interaction between humans is a social thing. The involuntary ones aren't, we call them oppression.
Which mean to stand against immoral and hurtful action like bullying. Bullying is oppression. Just because it 's done by kids to kids doesn't make it less worse.
Perhaps they don't have a character because they were not bullied enough when they were kids?
So is a car accident. If you survive you become a stronger character - you might have lost a foot or two, but hey, perhaps you were weak of body - should have hit that gym to keep the muscles tight.
Should you go around with a truck causing accidents?
Yes, of course. It 's always the victim 's fault. Just like in some backwards countries were the woman that gets raped gets stoned to death because clearly it was her fault.
Do you believe that if all people on Earth really think the Sun is a strawberry, you can harvest marmalade from it in the summer?
Yea, and let 's not forget the ones who had to kill the Mammoths. Damn, that was hard. Well guess what, it 's also irrelevant. Different ages, different environments, different problems. Doesn't mean less pain.
My daughter tried to kill herself because of school bullying. Very nearly managed it, the only thing that saved her was my other daughter waking up at 2am (ish) needing the toilet.
She spent a week in hospital and needs periodical screening for organ damage now so yeah, guess I'll stop whining...
I'd love to quote more of your post but I just can't be arsed to reply to that shit.
The key to not being affecting by bullying is to just not give a fuck.
It sounds like your condoning bullying. Yea, your right though, It dose build character; enough character for kids to grow up and go back to those very same schools where they were bullied and shot as much kids and teachers as they can. Or better yet, pull a fire alarm and wait for those very same kids that were bullying them to come running out and showing them how much character they help them build. Very few adults today can handle being bullied, what makes you think kids can do a better job at handling all that pressure from there piers?
Grate poem shailzrocks , Loved the Poem , the animation and voice over. All in all very positive video. I love the fact that their shedding some light on a topic that hardly gets any attention even though it is the cause of so many tragedies happening today.
Although madoctopus may not be correct he has a point though. I'm not going to bother getting into this because there are many different factors. Society plays a big role in this.
I've been picked on/ punked/ jumped/ made fun of.... lol I did it right back... I don't believe it is the way to go AT ALL... I made me stronger but I had to really work and THINKING different and believing my truths VS theirs .... it comes down to parents .. not kids.. A bully usually lashes out because they don't really see themselves in the best light either (from many different reasons.. family..friends..etc) and then they dish it out to other kids.... its a big crappy cycle.. so parents need to step it up...peace!
yes it does, torture too. they become part of you and your way of seeing life. yeah i actually believe in that. but, very important is not what happened to you but how you handled it. what you took from it. you can be beaten or tortured or bullied and crash, become a victim, feel defeated, etc. or it can make you stronger. it is a matter of how you use it. a choice. i'm not saying it will not affect you negatively since if when they torture you they cut your dick or some fingers etc. obviously it affects you. but it is a choice if you take strength from it or allow it to soften you. you are only defeated when you accept defeat. only then.
Kids fighting and murder/rape are two different things. Theft... i won't comment on because would be a long talk. Also there is a victim's profile in case of rape and some cases of murder too. So yes, in some cases I do think they got it because they pushed their luck. If i'm in a bar and there's a fight, I GTFO. If you stay because you have a big ego and want to show how badass you are, don't complain if you get killed. It was your choice. Then there are the situations where it was not your choice to stay, you just ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, it is quite irrelevant because if it happened you're fucked no matter how many people give you your support in vids on YT. It is life and it comes with shit like this. Nobody likes it obviously but it exists. It simply does because it is part of human nature and even the kindest person out there is capable of grotesque things just like the most grotesque person is capable of good things. And let's not forget rape/thieft/murder all are possible because of education and I don't mean formal education but life lessons. If you live in a place where life means nothing, you will absorb that as a truth and live by it. At least most do.
I agree but i'm thinking more in terms of bullying being the natural process through which children in a social group establish their social status within the group. This can be established through other means as well but it usually involves a dominator/dominated situation. It is present not just in human societies but also in animal societies - think wolf packs, lions, etc. You may say it is an animal thing and we as humans should be better. Yeah, but we're not. What we should be like ideally and what we are in practice are 2 different things. Again, main point remains that this exists and you have to manage with it. In most cases I would say if the bullied fights back, even if he is defeated, he will not be oppressed again, especially if it happens several times and he always fights back.
Is not less worse because is not kid vs adult is kid vs kid so obviously the victim suffers since he is in a dominated/inferior position. I agree with that. But again, just because one stands against something does not make that thing go away. This only comes from education - both of potential victim (everybody) and of the aggressor. The aggressor is like that because of a certain background - social, family, intelectual, spiritual, etc. He has his own fears and problems and I would say most if not all of the time that is exactly why he bullies - to prove to himself he is stronger and not a victim. Best example are 2 colleagues I had - one in primary school, one in high school - both were short, thin, looked weak. They were mean and "problem" kids for teachers. Why? Because they had a complex because they were smaller. And they bullied everybody, they got in fights they could win and couldn't win just to prove themselves they are not weak and small and all that.
No. There is a lack of communication as I said, maybe they're too busy with work or whatever to much stress and grownup problems that they miss details in the child's behavior. I think if you don't notice something wrong with your kid, there's a break there in the communication and attention. Then you have the maybe not so frequent case where parent's behavior will be perceived to a certain extent by the child as a different form of bullying. Might sound strange or extreme but things that seem normal or ok for a parent might affect a child a lot in his own head/inner world. Could be very simple things like not letting the kid go somewhere and he feels punished not understanding you were worried about what bad thing could happen if he goes or interfering with his social life (not let your girl wear makeup). I'm not saying you should let them do whatever they want, not at all. That would have way worse results. But you have to bring them in and communicate so they understand you.
Why you trying to put words in my mouth or make logic connections that are forced and without sense. Yes a car accident or any accident could be a lesson. Not all are but there may be a lesson. Maybe one you don't see as a lesson but in a certain way it changes you even if you don't notice. Everything changes you. When I said bullying can be positive I said it because if you get bullied and you fight back then you get confidence in yourself. This gets interwoven with the social/hierarchy part i talked about earlier.
Victim's fault in case of bullying is he doesn't fight back. Is not a fault per-se but the passivity brings only worse. It pictures you as a victim as somebody that can be fucked with without consequences. What I said had nothing to do with being his fault though. I said he's half broken hence feels weak/victim. He is afraid, he does not react, is passive, etc. This comes from many things from poor self esteem to fear to even simply being a too much of a nice person. I was hit more than once by bullies and could literally not hit them back because the thought of hurting them made me feel bad. Maybe that sounds really crazy but some people are like that, they don't like to hurt others. Again I see you choose to make some forced connections with the Saudi's habits and all that. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote with a less defensive mind and frame it differently than it seems to you the first time.
No but i don't follow the connection with what i said. It is not a real problem unless you choose to make it one. It is a problem only because you as a person choose it to be like that. For me it is something that exists, it is part of life, hence you have to manage with it and handle it. It is no more of a problem than having shitty teachers, politicians that have a different agenda than what they advertise, police officers that abuse their power, etc. It is only a problem if for some reason you expect life to be easy, perfect or even fair. It is not. Or if you have high expectations from people. Which they obviously will not meet.
Yeah, lets not forget them. Point is life is hard, unfair, full of shitty people, full of downright mean people, pain, hassle, useless things, etc. and you're right in the middle of it. And you simply have two choices - pull your shit together and do your best to live well or become a leaf in the wind.
I am sorry to hear that but as much as this question might hurt, disgust or upset you: how comes she never told you about it, looked for your advice and went to kill herself. This doesn't happen over night. You don't get bullied today and tomorrow you kill yourself. This takes time. If a kid at school tried to kill her than yeah i'd see why all the hate towards bullying and making a big deal about it. But thing is the children like your daughter do what they do because they get to choose it. They crack from the pressure, feel they can't live like that anymore, that there's no solution, etc. If they feel they can't talk to somebody or they do but don't get out of it something to help them reframe the situation in their mind, it's even worse. They choose to accept peer opinion/words/pressure/opinions about themselves over their own. If peer opinion is good (you're Angelina Jolie and every guy in the school wants you and girls envy you and you're popular and all) then you grow self confidence. If you're overweight and kinda invisible socially and even you have a bit of a bad opinion about you, any word is going to cut you like a blade.
I think you're really an octopus no way you can write that with just 2 hands
So how dont u see my point then? The victim becomes the bully. That's what all bullies are - victims. Something is cracking him outside of school (at home usually) and making him aggressive towards others. Is a vicious cycle. His drunk father beats him, he hears his mother have sex through the wall, his friends or other people bully him or say hes weak or whatever. He then goes to school and finds people he feels confident he can mess with. So he does. He's full of hate and bitter and obviously that's what he spreads. And this are the bully "leaders" the extreme cases. Most of the time if a victim is soft enough and has a bad enough self esteem, even somebody saying "you look like Mikey Mouse" will make that victim feel bad. And maybe the guy who said it wasn't even meaning to hurt. Maybe he thinks that's actually cool to look like mikey mouse. But the rest of the people there have herd mentality and inflate it, make it a big deal, scream it louder, put the spotlight on the victim who now feels small and being attacked and all that. Today, next day, so on if this repeats enough it breaks you if you have a weaker self esteem or character. But you break because of yourself because you choose to allow it to be important. And yeah not everybody is strong enough to find his way by himself. That's exactly why I say communication parent-child is paramount. So when he has a problem he comes and talks to you and seeks your help. And then you deflate the build-up of poor self esteem in him.
I was bullied as a kid in junior high, until i snapped and decided to strike back. beating all those bullies a** felt good but getting kicked out of school did not. I was never messed with again for the rest of school, and all the popular girls started to talk to me. Who would have thought.
oookaaaay - let me guess, instead of pizza, you order the local Sadomist for a few didactical whips?
Yea, yea, and let 's add the thousand of stories of beaten down people coming back to full glory. It happens, there 's no denying it.
But I don't care about that. I am a good compassionate person. I care about the people who didn't meet your survival standards. I will never endorse any oppression over any person. Once you get into the mindset of "he deserved it", you can justify any atrocity ever committed.
No, it isn't. They only differ in volume but their core - oppression to the victim by the offender is the one and same thing.
Aha. Now this makes more of an argument rather than that "it 's a social thing". So let me comment on it.
We humans are not like other animals. We (among other things) have the capacity of understanding natural rights. While it is natural that the strong animal will impose its will on the weak animal, this does not derive that the same thing has to be happening among humans. There is the basis of morality. We humans are equipped with intelligence to approve or disapprove of actions based on their consequenses over natural rights.
To make it simple. Maybe a guy can beat the shit out of me because he 's stronger. It doesn't mean that I 'd approve of it (and hopefully he doesn't either )
Yes, it exists. And just like humans have eliminated other things far more dangerous (e.g. the plague), they can eliminate the undesirable oppressive behaviors. At least, we can try. Accepting bad shit as natural is simply providing an ideological excuse to offenders. That 's what is the first thing we must stop and the reason for my responses.
Not putting words in your mouth. The easiest way to show an argument is moot is take it to the extreme. That 's what I 've been doing.
So, you condone rape as well? Because the victim is beaten into submission there as well.
It meant that in reality, it doesn't matter if you (or me or anyone) think some people are pussies.
@jazzc i don't really disagree with u mate, i just don't see it very constructive to complain about life being tough instead of kicking and fighting.
morality - that is something only a moral person has so you can not say morality and refer to human species because many people are simply not moral. morality is a choice and requires a certain personal spiritual and intelectual level and most importantly the lack of pressure. you can not be moral if bullets fly past your window and bombs drop in your backyard and you are in survival mode. and you can't be moral if you are dominated by fear. And animals have moral too. Even more honest than human one. It is called law of nature - is the same thing though i suspect you will disagree and look at it from a human subjective perspective. Human morality is subjective is what you choose to be ok with accepting and important. Your system of values. Animal morality is also subjective and is from what the animals choose. Stoning a raped woman to death in Saudi Arabia is their subjective morality. Morality as everything comes down to choice. What YOU choose to consider moral or not. I've met people who said that if a woman is dressed very sexy and has sex appeal she wants a fuck hence if he fucks her (as in grab & fuck/rape as opposed to seducing) she wanted it. I can see why its retarded, you can see it too, he thinks its ok. His morality allows it.
"Maybe a guy can beat the shit out of me because he 's stronger. It doesn't mean that I 'd approve of it (and hopefully he doesn't either )" no truly strong man or animal will hurt another just to hurt it unless he's in a really bad place in his mind/soul, which means he's actually not really strong and balanced.
Thing is you can't really help the weak by "killing" their oppressors. That's not helping them, just taking the lessons away from them. You want to help the weak, then you focus on him, the weak one, not the oppressor. When he will be strong, the power of the oppressor simply disappears. If my kid gets beaten at school I'm not helping him if I'm moving him to some other school or go and scare the kid that beat him. It is his fight and he has to fight it one way or another today or 20 years from now. And if he fights it today, 20 years from now he will not feel week in a similar situation. Experiences are what form you, what define you, what give you strength and weakness. They are the foundation of how you grow. Obviously more than you can handle is not really constructive either. But usually you can handle so much more than you think you can.
Damn, after reading that last paragraph of yours, madoctopus, I think you should write a book!
If everyone was like you jazzc the world would be a better place but unfortunately not everyone sees these things the way you see them. Not everyone has your mindset.
I wanted to counter Madocptopus's arguments fiercely, but it may end up into a full-blown argument. So let's keep it short, no matter what is the after-effects of a wrong action, at the end of day it's a wrong action. A woman gets raped and it makes her cynical about her surrounding. She starts keeping safety equipment in her bag and joins karate classes, so indirectly rape made the woman stronger ( This is what my friend Madoptopus is trying to point out), but the stain (mental torture) of rape will last in her mind forever. Bullying is a crime and the impact of this act varies from person to person, so we can't term someone who decides to give up his life as pussy. Although I will never promote or support suicide or anything similar to that, but I have come across people who have tried taking up their lives and they were not weak, but when they decided to suicide, they did in the state of helplessness. The situation and surrounding crippled them and they had nowhere to go, so for them suicide was the easiest option. Bullying is wrong, and those who bully must be taught a good lesson.
I remember my younger brother's childhood days. My brother got into the school at an early age, so he was fairly young when compared to other kids in his class. By the time he reached 8th standard, there were kids half a feet taller than him. Those tall kids used to regularly beat up my brother for one or another reason and my brother used to come home crying. It went on for 3 months until one fine day I saw my brother's swollen face and I decided enough is enough and these bullies need to be taught a lesson. Thereafter, I made a group of guys who used to regularly meet these guys and slap them. We kept on beating those bullies for 7 days until they called their parents at the school and complained to the principal. I told their parents the entire story and made them realize their son's mistake. I was suspended for 7 days from school, nevertheless after that day my brother never cried in school.
I narrated this story because I am trying to make a point here and it is that bullies must be tackled at an early age. Most of the bullies have personal problems or bad past, so they love tormenting others for pleasure. Proper counselling and diagnosis can solve the problem.
Sometimes (Often) the person being bullied isn't strong enough, so it becomes really difficult for him to tackle his bully. Although such a situation makes him stronger, but if he doesn't have support system, then he will feel completely alienated. The fact that if someone helps him once when he's bullied doesn't make him weaker, instead it would instill confidence within him and he'll feel more safer and also believe that bullies can be tackled. He just need to be told that bullies can be tackled and it's the belief that matters.
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