1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The reason most BST sellers don't make a whole lot and work too much

Discussion in 'Making Money' started by macdonjo3, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,652
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    I'm making this because of my frustration as a buyer, not as a seller. I find it difficult to find the services I need for my clients, and literally pile up several unique profitable BST ideas as the days go by. While everyone is chasing around the same old ideas in a race to the bottom, there is money left on the table for the creative individuals.

    I've been selling in BSTs for longer than most people have been on the forum, so I figured I'd offer some insight. I remember 5 years ago when approval was so strict that there were sellers pulling 5 or 6 figures in a month from a thread. There were only a few sellers, and they did very well. The quality was there because everyone knew how to charge, so that they didn't have to cut corners when it came to the product. That's become quite rare these days and let me explain why.

    Back in 2010 or so, I listed the first micro niche BST on BHW. There was only 1 other thread selling websites, and I believe they were selling autoblogs. When I contacted tymillz, now super mod, he denied me because the other service was just too similar to mine.

    About 30 days later, I was finally approved after explaining that my sister were MFA and they were static and used HTML while the other guy was using WordPress.

    I was probably 14 or 15 years old at the time, and I turned a solid profit. I knew how to charge, and made my 5 figures. I moved on, ran Keyword Scout, did 6 figures with that before ever graduating high school. That wasn't just from BHW, so don't be deceived by that. I had a marketing strategy on several websites, along with major affiliate connections. It's a networking game and I was surprisingly a good (and lucky talker) when it came to affiliate outreach.

    Now days, you make a BST, it might be hard to differentiate yourself. You won't get the number of clients you once would, but you can easily beat out everyone by raising quality.

    I've already talked here about my advice to social signal providers. Basically, all of the providers are now offshore flight-by-night and the quality has pretty much disappeared. First world sellers may have lost confidence in their ability to earn a first world income with these low price sellers competing. Don't worry, they're leaving money on the table and let me explain why.

    By the way, I've been selling high quality domains on here since Summer 2014, before pretty much every other seller except hardcore biker who beat me to market about a month earlier. Everyone else jumped on board as soon as they saw the opportunity we found. Even with the offshore people jumping in and selling domains for $5 or $10 a piece, I'm still closing sales from $250-$500 on weekly basis, without too much of a time commitment. I don't need to monitor my Skype 24/7 etc. My buyers are high budget, very understanding, happy people and easy to deal with. The 2 last buyers have both spend over $2000+ with me. You're going to understand, this is not a numbers game.

    To make $2000 this week, you can either sell $2000 worth of goods to 1 high budget client who you've built a long term relationship with, will keep their word and pretty much buy any high quality thing you throw at them, or you can run around, close 100 miserable $20 sales, be on Skype 12 hours a day, work a ton, stress, deal with unreasonable people and all those other headaches. It gives me a headache just thinking about it.

    Here's my advice.

    1. Triple your prices and triple the quantity

    As a buyer, I continuously struggle to find high quality services to sub-contact my client's SEO budget to. For example, you have the black hat posts, either $15 guest posts or 15 PBN posts for $100. The PBNs are not monitored for quality of the site their out-linking to and you're basically throwing your website on an unmonitored house of cards. As soon as one idiot screws up and gets a manual action, it doesn't take a rocket scientist for a Google employee to look at where his backlinks came from and penalize the whole network. Google isn't going to come on here and buy links, so stop worrying about that. Google will however find the 1 idiot out of the other 50+ that are on the PBN, and reverse through the PBN.

    2. If the only buying feature of your product is price, you're doing it wrong

    I've seen it anytime a new service comes around. Someone will start selling something, whether it's micro niche sites or keyword tools or expired domains, and then they'll come through and their primary selling point will be "mine is cheaper!" You're really proud of making less money? You need a business crash course on learning how to value your time and charging what you're worth. I think meathead1234 charges 15% from both the seller and the buyer every time he sells a website. Yeah, sure there's Flippa and other competition who offer for less, but when you ramp up the quality and what you do for the buyers, you can charge what you want and close out those 6 figure months like meathead1234.

    3. Cater to white hat agencies, they have the big money

    So look at the members here on BHW. You'll find a lot don't have a whole lot of money to spend other than what's left over from their weekly paycheque at their day job. Who has $1000 to blow on your product or service every month? Agencies! The hot shots in NYC who bill clients for 10x that amount every week. Look at what they need. They need someone who is first, very easy to get along with. They need to be respectful. This morning I contacted someone to buy guest posts from them, I received so much sass. You think you're going to build a relationship that way? GOOD LUCK!! Next, you must be able to be reached by phone, and speak English without an accent. Americans want someone who is generally around sometime in their 9-5 EST workday to schedule a call. Third, you need to handle their problems. If you charge properly, you don't have an issue with re-doing an order for free if it messed up. This will keep your relationship in perfect condition and keep them a buyer. Fourth, you need to offer white hat quality. There are agencies on here who have Fortune 500 clients. They don't want your garbage $15 guest post. They want your $500 guest post on some awesome site. Heck, you could probably double it and they'd still pay it. It's like I said earlier about social signals, they don't want to pay peanuts for low quality signals, they want to pay big time for quality that will actually show results.

    As a buyer, I really hope a lot of sellers take my advice, and fulfill the needs spotted in this thread. There is a lot of money left on table. Yeah, a couple years ago, I would have snatched up these opportunities and did it myself but there gets to a point when you just take on too much. I already have solid businesses on the go and I don't need more. I'll let this inspire the 15 year old version of me and let you drop $40k on your first vehicle, just like I did. Don't worry, you can do it! Value your time, work less, charge more, and you'll be fine. Have fun! :)

    Screw proof reading... POST.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 25
  2. pirrtaste

    pirrtaste Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    48
    You seem to have some real knowledge on online marketing but I disagree with your "race to the bottom" comment. I been making bank due to cheap
    prices , this is the beauty of capitalism and how it spreads wealth. While I would love to charge $1000 for my services I do quite well charging $50 and selling to the masses.
    A lot more diversity and branding come into play, plus as people learn the tips and tricks of the pros expect a huge drop in price.
     
  3. _Bryan_

    _Bryan_ Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    137
    I remember you lol. I think we had an argument or something a few years back and since then I had a condescending opinion of you. I hadn't seen you in a while though so I'm glad you've scaled up and running your own businesses successfully. Actually, I can relate to your post because even though I've been in the "game" for several years, I've dedicated my time to short term projects that brought in relatively low profits. Probably less than I could've pulled in at a corporate job given my level of expertise on several fields as well as my 6+ years of experience.

    What you've said here is the reason why I basically quit everything I was working on and started working on a single, large project rather than focusing on several small ones that eat up my whole time. I realized that the most important part is planning and evaluating your options. Now I've made it my motto to work smart, not hard.

    So thank you for your post and I hope that people will value the advice. Value your time folks :)
     
  4. 2spoons

    2spoons Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    404
    Likes Received:
    182
    Occupation:
    Internet Marketer and Coach
    Location:
    UK
    Home Page:
    Thanks for the tips. I'm about to launch a BST myself soon, so this couldn't have come at a better time!

    Any tips for getting your BST infront of as many people as possible? Do stickies work for example?

    cheers
     
  5. nomad1500

    nomad1500 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2012
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    152
    Awesome post and very true on most fronts...

    I for one would be willing to pay a premium price for guest posts on a premium PBN, but wholly fuck, try to find one here on BHW!

    Anyway thanks for the great post, I hope it inspires someone to come up with a great quality PBN guest posting service

    P.S.

    If anybody has a super high quality PBN for guest posting on, or knows of one, let me know
     
  6. FeroXs

    FeroXs Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    115
    Location:
    51st State
    Great post - I was actually thinking this the other day. I noticed how some services, which were priced a lot higher than others, were still getting the same or more orders because of the quality. This gave me the confidence to start planning my future BST as before I couldn't justify competing with the super cheap/lower quality sales pitches.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. cryptexicebone

    cryptexicebone Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    79
    Occupation:
    Baller
    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    I'm the guy you'll be buying your services from, give it 3 months or so. :cool:
     
  8. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,652
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    $50 is fair, I'm more talking about the people who are literally charging less than $10 per customer.
     
  9. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,652
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    They are hard to find. They are pretty much all auto-approve. Any that don't filter who can buy and who can't buy, just ends badly.

    The best way to go about this is to find 3-4 other people in your industry and just split the costs of a PBN in that niche. That way you get lowered costs and still control what happens.

    Another option yet is trading PBN posts. Build one, and then trade posts on yours for posts on others so that you can grow.
     
  10. MisterF

    MisterF Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    7,856
    Likes Received:
    6,382
    Occupation:
    Conference Organiser, Business Advisor.,
    Location:
    JADIP
    Home Page:
    Sadly there are sellers who don't deliver what they promise, meaning as a buyer I have to spend time and effort constantly chasing for updates, chasing to see what is / isn't being done and why there is no response to emails as the job has overrun.

    Sellers should ensure they have enough time / staff to meet deadlines, I ordered sites on 1st January and these are still not complete, the job has been a nightmare from the start. Thse were basic MNS, not 100 page authority sites.
     
  11. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Messages:
    12,774
    Likes Received:
    11,429
    Occupation:
    COINZ
    Location:
    BUYAH
    Home Page:
    Nice writeup, summarizes a lot of the opinions I have as a BST buyer as well.
     
  12. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,652
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    I've been working on an awesome business news site that isn't going to be a PBN but it's going to be a single site, with lots of age, authority, social proof, excellent design, etc and you can register and make posts for $50 or $100 per post. Everything is manually approved. It'll be in the BST section probably in 2-3 months.

    I think there's a lot of opportunity for everyone. Most of the current sellers won't even put up a fight. The guys who go for the $12 guest posts, you don't want them as customers anyways.
     
  13. t0mmy

    t0mmy Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,732
    Likes Received:
    14,432
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    Home Page:
    Some very valid points. Things here have changed immensely over the past few years, rules back in the day around "uniqueness" were great.. well, for the first guy in with the idea. When we first started with Speed Rank the rule was still in force, so for a good few months we were the only guys selling those links. Then the rules changed, along came some replica services. It sucked to begin with, but no big deal really.. competition is healthy, it helped us to improve and gave buyers more options.

    What happened then was a lot of guys started submitting services, driving prices and obviously quality down. All trying to outdo each other in price.. with little regard for quality. Still though I don't see it as a huge problem, because the quality services usually become evident.. I mean it's very easy to tell that a "guest post" costing $19 isn't a guest post at all. Perhaps because I was already well established here the influx of new sellers didn't phase me. People really don't mind paying more if they're getting their monies worth.

    Personally from my perspective as a seller that's done well over 7 figures here - Don't undersell yourself, if your product/service is of a superior quality then make sure your clients know this and that the price reflects it. It's a great market place with a lot to offer. You're right about attracting agencies, there are LOTS of them lingering around here and I've spoke about it in my threads a few times, they're some of our biggest clients.

    Edit: @nomad: Real guest posts are not on a "PBN" though, that's the problem I see a lot of here. A real guest post is obtained through manual outreach.. contacting webmasters and pitching them in order to obtain a guest post on their site, a lot of sites will already openly welcome guest posts which is half the battle. That's why it's referred to as a "guest" post really.. you're a guest, posting a piece of content on their site.. a real site. Not buying a post on a blog designed solely for the purpose of posting to aka "pbn". We recently brought our "outreach" service here. Feel free to check it out. No $19 offers though I'm afraid.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  14. Wuconnect

    Wuconnect Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    At the moment in the Forums lol
    I will first go on to say that this was a magnificent post macdonjo, as I agree with most things. As you can see from my join date, I haven't been here that long (even with my lurking, I wanted to say I found BHW a month or 2 before then lol). For me personally...since being here on BHW, my buying habits have actually changed a great deal, the biggest being I basically don't even buy from Warrior Forums anymore.

    I've had enough of the recycled BS and the coaching programs I've been in. Not trying to bash the coaches but majority of them explained to continue the trend of writing crap and peddle it to newbies who don't know any better... (wasn't in me to do this). But anyways...

    Here's what I look into when buying a product or a service:

    * What is it that you are selling: Generic, but... you know we are just throwing that in there.

    * How much value are you providing?: Is your value enough to warrant me even considering the Purchase basically.A

    * The cost: I know some are very mixed in this category but like said... charge your services to your worth. And it only takes a few SOLID Reviews to justify the cost

    *Reviews: I tend not to pay attention to the ones in the beginning because in experience, they were given review copies and will almost ALWAYS say something great about the product. As time goes on, you start to read the more genuine reviews from people who forked over the money for it. Like some will say something like "did order as described but...so and so and such and such didn't pan out like I wanted...but still a great product." Like alright he's stating something that he didn't like about it, but all and all still justifies the cost. Maybe I'm just weird like that lol.

    * Who are you?: This may come as a bit of pettiness on my end as a buyer but..it is nice to know who you are. Do you have good standing in the forum? what do others say about you? what other threads have you started, what have you said in them? etc etc. I actually didn't really start to do this till I saw Wilson really digging in people who think they could get away with whatever.


    Again this is just my stages for reviewing if said product or service is worth it.
     
  15. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,652
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    The fact that people are false labeling guest posts is more of a problem with the BHW approval on the thread than the seller itself. The job of the mod who reviews the service is to see if the description matches the product. Can you blame them for manipulating the system and false labelling the product if it's allowed?
     
  16. healbean

    healbean Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    how do i do that?
     
  17. t0mmy

    t0mmy Executive VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2011
    Messages:
    6,732
    Likes Received:
    14,432
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Spain
    Home Page:
    Well it's half a dozen of one, and six of the other. I mean "guest post on my pbn" they're pretty much advertising it as it is - a guest post on their PBN. The wording isn't a lie.. it's a guest post on their PBN. I think a buyer has a duty to be educated enough to know the difference in this vs a real guest post, long before they even think about opening their wallet. Otherwise you're just throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.

    Honestly, I think the mods do enough in the review process.. especially the past few months, there has been major improvements. There is only so much you can limit people, and like I pointed out - it's all in how it's worded. The buck stops with the buyer, he's the one pulling his wallet out.. proper due diligence should be a priority.
     
  18. royserpa

    royserpa Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,986
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Negative Options aka Rebills!
    Location:
    Exploiting Loopholes!
    Home Page:
    The better and more you serve, the better the return ;)
     
  19. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,652
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Location:
    Toronto
    Home Page:
    Well, it mostly bothers me because I'll search for "guest posts" but then still having to filter through the "guest posts" which are not actually stated to be on a blog network. I think I checked a random 6 this morning. 5 of them were not actual guest posts.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. SEO1337

    SEO1337 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,882
    Likes Received:
    807
    Stickies are excellent and there's a reason why in the SEO section they're sold out and there's usually a waiting list for it.