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The EMD Smokescreen To What's Really Been Happening

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by freller, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. freller

    freller Regular Member

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    Been doing a lot of research over the last week since the 'EMD slap' and I think I can now see what's really been happening.

    It started after I noticed that some of my EMDs had actually gone UP in the rankings - one in particular that Google really used to hate and outright refused to rank at all is now #1 for it's keyphrase after the 'slap'!

    So, have EMDs been 'hit' as such? No - they've just had the artificial boost that came from the EMD phrase removed. As an aside, Bing/Yahoo are still rocking like it's 1998 - no slap there.

    In fact, the whole EMD slap started at least two months ago and what we're seeing now is just a bigger rollout of the same. What HAS really started to be pushed by Google is Link Authority - big time.

    Niche sniper EMD sites normally don't have any kind of incoming link authority - they're 'fire and forget' most of the time, and that's why they've suffered in particular. Sheer number of links does not equal link authority, although it helps. What's really required is page authority on the linking sites, and very few blogs/article directories/bookmarking sites etc. provide that.

    It's also the reason why Wikipedia/Livestrong/eHow have done so well - they're internal linking pages usually have loads of individual page authority so they've benefited out of all proportion to any content quality they offer.

    So, bottom line, it's still all about links. EMDs absolutely do still offer advantages, but only where they're well linked with a good proportion of incoming keyphrase links (that's another red herring that's sent loads of people on the wrong road). Those Webmaster messages we were getting from Google really were important - sorting out link quality now needs to be an absolute priority.

    And as for social signals, I can see absolutely no linkage between them and the SERPs at present. That will doubtless change next year, but it's not there yet.
     
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  2. Teront

    Teront Newbie

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    I agree with you - I don't think sites are being penalised, just the boost they had from EMD is removed (which makes sense)
     
  3. creativepotion

    creativepotion Regular Member

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    If thats the case, then there is no point using EMD anymore? Since it doesnt quite offer a fair advantage afterall?
     
  4. Adam718

    Adam718 Senior Member

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    That isn't true whatsoever. EMD's that were hit still had solid backlink profiles and would rank well whether they were EMD's or not.

    Going from page 1 to oblivion is NOT just the result of EMD artificial boost being taken away. It's a penalty, so no need for denial.
     
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  5. radarsurge

    radarsurge Regular Member Premium Member

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    I've seen almost all my EMD's come back after getting slammed yesterday. but that's a good observation because they have been decreasing in rankings for about 2 months now... I think there is validity to what Freller is saying.
     
  6. freller

    freller Regular Member

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    The real test for me was acne.org, as I wrote in another thread. That site had always ranked highly for 'acne' and a whole bunch of other long tail keywords and from being #1 in most cases it was now being relegated to the second page. It looked to be unfair treatment so I investigated further and also at my own and many other sites. The conclusions became obvious pretty quickly and I see that others have come up with pretty much the same elsewhere - it's the removal of the EMD boost that's now exposing the real effect of link authority in reorganizing the SERPs.
     
  7. aakon7

    aakon7 Regular Member

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    The problem with this is people's definition of a 'solid backlink profile'. What I would consider a 'solid backlink profile' is very different from most other people so I would have to disagree. I believe the OP has it correct, but what do I know, I only have hundreds of EMD's under my control of which only three of them have been hit :)
     
  8. ibmethatswhoib

    ibmethatswhoib Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Thanks for your observation OP, but I just don't see how they can be booted into oblivion by just decreasing they're EMD juice like the other poster said. If it was a decrease in EMD juice you would only see a 1 to 3/4 page decrease.
     
  9. -adrian

    -adrian Registered Member

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    Good thread, because it's not just a theory, it's a reminder of what really matters to Google.. high value links from other sites. MC said that this algo change was meant to affect low value emd's, so a renewed focus on high value links is a good one to have, despite your opinions on this theory.
     
  10. Adam718

    Adam718 Senior Member

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    So you're saying that all these EMD's that were hit aren't even supposed to be in the first 50 pages of the serp? I can't believe some of you guys actually believe this.

    I've had EMD's with PR3+, 50+ unique articles, and good backlink profiles that are no where to be found now.

    A website WON'T go from #1 to #1,000 without a penalty. Period.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  11. DarkMeta

    DarkMeta BANNED BANNED

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    All EMD sites and lost their ranking, some faced little drop like mine and some big drops as we can see in this forum
     
  12. bobred

    bobred Registered Member

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    Whilst i don't know if it's a penalty or not, in a niche with 100's of millions of competing pages it is perfectly possible for a site to fall out of the top 1k results.
     
  13. thefarang

    thefarang Newbie

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    Like aakon7 says, quality is in the eye of the beholder. While I don't think OP's theory explains everything, it does a lot more to explain many of the drops I've seen people complaining about than many of the other theories.

    It would be interesting if someone who has taken a big hit could give more details about their total site profile. Backlinks, link authority, etc, etc. It would be a lot more informative if we could compare actual numbers rather than people's perceptions of quality links or content.
     
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  14. gullsinn

    gullsinn Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    If we read carefully about the update that means only 0.6% will be effected and those websites will lose ranking who are not quality websites.
     
  15. freller

    freller Regular Member

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    And as I said, I had EMDs that actually went UP not down in the last round.

    I've done a lot more on this since first posting and I'm more than ever convinced that this is a straightforward removal of a benefit plus a greater concentration on link quality. In fact, when I'm honest about those EMDs I had that did suffer I'm amazed they stayed as high as they did for as long as they did.
     
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  16. manny521

    manny521 Supreme Member

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    You have some good insights here and the quote above is something I figured out about 6 months ago and this is the only linking that I do now. Linking internally within pages on your site is one of the most powerful things you can do if you have an authority site. My site was hit by panda 3.3 and later penguin and I got myself out from these penalties by massive internal linking within my pages. Next time you find yourself on wikipedia, observe the number of internal links on the page you are looking at, it will amaze you! I have tried to tell as many people here about this as I could, but it really doesn't get people's attention b/c its so un-sexy, but its super effective.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  17. Scritty

    Scritty Elite Member Premium Member

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    Yup - this thread is - in the most part - speculation.

    Extreme Rank Transition
    Delayed Rank Transition

    Google openly said they were about to do it, now they ARE doing it, and people are saying "I wonder what Google are doing"
    We are getting cod theories and conspiracy bullshit rather than realizing we are getting exactly what we were told was coming in July.

    Quote (From Google, not some guy who spent "all last night researching")

    ERT and DRT are now a fact of life.

    The deliberate "shock and awe" approach of ERT, DRT, Penguin, Panda and "Over Op penalties and emails" (which have nothing to do with any of the other things) all in a short space of time.
    Deliberate confusion of certain key COMMERCIAL terms

    It's not manual either, it's an algorithm change they patented in July of this year

    In short - they fuck with you to see if you squeal.
    If you squeal they know they are fucking with the right site - and fuck with you some more.

    Example. You create a ton of crap links to your site. Google sees a lot of crap, changes your ranking. Then waits.
    You remove links that have been there for ages? They (think they) know they got a spammer
    You start creating massive amounts of links against the normal flow of inbounds..they (think they) know they got a spammer

    You add content, link sensibly, be patient. They (hopefully) give you the benefit - and over time you're back

    Some weird shit happens with ERT and DRT For example - check your PR - sometimes they boost your root domain PR while kicking you out of serps. PR jumps from 1 to 4 - but your site vanishes out of the top 1000.
    They rank deep pages in the top 20 rather than the more obvious root domain (for established sites)
    The link figures reported on google webmaster tools plummets - or skyrockets despite you doing nothing

    Google are quite openly saying "We are going to mess with your head". by poking you and see how you react if they suspect you are a link spammer.
    And they are doing it CONCURRENT with Penguin, Panda and over op email campaigns.

    Their aim is to get us all running around like headless chickens, and make BAD DECISIONS

    So - DON'T MAKE BAD DECISIONS

    What constituted sensible SEO yesterday still constitutes sensible SEO today - it's just that some have been getting away with crap for a while, and it might just be "adios muchachos" for them.
    The rest of you hang in, - do the right thing. WIN.

    Scritty
     
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  18. perfect10

    perfect10 Regular Member

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    3 of my EMD got hit, nowhere in top 1000. earlier they were ranking in top 5, all have good amount of hand written quality content by me. I am not going to do anything on those sites for another 1-2 months and then see what can be done.
     
  19. freller

    freller Regular Member

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    Whatever Google are going to do, or are currently doing, to mess with our minds, this present clearout does actually follow a pretty transparent pattern. I've had EMDs go up in the rankings and I'm now happy where they are based on link authority. I've also had EMDs which really should never have been as highly placed sink for the same reason.

    The SERPs now look more logical, based on link quality, than they did before (link quality/authority is NOT the same as PR or numbers of links). Link Authority doesn't guarantee good content though and neither does an EMD.

    But, and here's the kicker, sites like Wikipedia, Livestrong, eHow and the rest can now only get stronger in the SERPs and the first pages of Google are going to start looking very similar for an awfully large number of keyphrases. Yes, the 'randomization' patent may throw up some WTF moments, but basically the strong sites are only going to get stronger. Prepare yourself for a tide of WSOs pushing Squidoo, Hubpages, document sharing sites and the others once again.
     
  20. mikie46

    mikie46 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    This is true, but what about linking between your own pages when your not an authority site?