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the argument of "if you're so good at seo, why is your own site not ranking at the top"

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by kasher9, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. kasher9

    kasher9 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    FYI: i'm not in seo anymore, I'm just curious.

    I attended an event a few weeks back in london and the guy was giving typical bs about backlinks, improving content bla bla bla.

    Someone (me) asked "If you're so good at seo, why don't you rank for "SEO London" for your agency" He gave me the typical answer of competiton etc.

    For those of you that don't know, London is literally full of digital marketing agencies, and I know for a fact only a handful of them get clients through organic keywords.

    What about the rest? I mean for those who own a "Digital marketing agency", what do you say to your client when he says "If you're good at seo, why is your own site not ranking"? It's a valid point imo. BTW kudos to those who are ranking for their keywords, but I'm sure not everybody is, so how do you deal with that? I mean do you answer with honesty or do you just try and BS your way out of it?

    My curiosity comes from the fact that I'm part of a digital marketing community in London, and in every SEO related event I hear a load of crap and useless buzzwords being thrown around, do you do the same or is there an alternative approach to roping the client in?
     
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    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  2. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    tanh z = (sinh z)/(cosh z) = (e^z - e^-z)/(e^z + e^-z) = (e^(2z) - 1)/(e^(2z) + 1)

    What you mean you do not understand it because you do not have all the information? No one outside of Google has all the information.
     
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  3. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Tell them that there are 2 types of SEO Agency, those that want to become Gurutards, that rank their own sites at the expense of their clients and those SEO Professionals who spend all their time ranking client sites.
    Tell them you don't even need a website because you get more referrals from word of mouth than you can handle and that you are selective on which clients you take on.
     
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  4. whatsapp

    whatsapp Regular Member

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    I've never been asked this sort of question, some clients will ask if you have experience working in this niche etc, but that's about it.
     
  5. mickyfu

    mickyfu Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I think you should just rank your site for SEO related keywords, then you will not have this issue.
     
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  6. Reaver

    Reaver Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You mean...do actual work?

    Nope.
     
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  7. whatsapp

    whatsapp Regular Member

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    Ranking SEO agency and related keywords for most local UK areas is easy enough. Ranking for London will require a bootload of £££. I have never ranked my own website, however I have helped to rank a handful of local SEO agencies.
     
  8. davids355

    davids355 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    How about:

    I get clients by attending these events, by word of mouth and by reputation. as a result I don't need to rank for keyword xyz = lower fixed costs and ultimately this is how I can offer far more competitive rates than the top 5 agencies ranking for "seo in xyz"
     
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  9. kasher9

    kasher9 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    lol

    lol
    lol

    How dare you suggest real work

    Wise words.

    Were you at an event a few weeks back and a strapping young man asked you "If you're so good at SEO, why arent' you ranking for your own keywords?"
     
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  10. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    I just tell them I use artificial intelligence.

    [​IMG]

    After all Google Brain is AI. Call it a fight of the machine. Skynet be damned.

    On the more serious side, only Google really knows what all the triggers are. Probably no single person in Google knows all of the triggers though. The best that the rest of us artificial intelligences can accomplish is best guess based upon trial and error.

    So very few actually take a random URL from a SERP and try to rank it. And this is often the failure of many an SEO. They lack data to make a determination from and are loath to experiment with their or others URL.

    No amount of reading BHW, Blackhat SEO, Search Engine Land, or other sites is going to take the place of experimenting. Other sites may have been around longer, or have experimented more and thus rank better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  11. kasher9

    kasher9 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    Give swine pearls and what do they do? They trample them. No sense in giving them diamonds.
     
  13. kasher9

    kasher9 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Don't think there's any sense in giving swine anything tbh, can I have the diamonds instead?
    Yes yes your points are valid, but I seriously don't care, I'm not in SEO anymore, haven't been for a few years. I was just curious how people respond to valid questions from potential clients. Yes, ranking a site is just ultimately experienced trial and error, but if you're able to apply it to your own site, wouldn't that give you more credibility as opposed to others?

    My quarrel would be in this scenario; I'm looking for a SEO company, how do I find the right one? I mean they're all selling the same horseshit, and being a mellenial swine, I shall use the net to find a credible seo company, but how do you differentiate?
     
  14. Zwielicht

    Zwielicht Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    I've never been asked that.

    Whenever I receive a new client, I use my business site as an example of the SEO tactics I plan to employ on their website. I usually sit down with them and explain what their site is missing, whilst showing them examples on one or more of my sites, and how the same changes I've applied to my sites can be used to improve their rankings and bring in new customers.
     
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  15. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    Simple fact is that with incomplete knowledge of the algorithms of the major search engines and the specific niche and area (city, state, country) ranking anything is a crap shoot and shooting for luck. To minimize the chance of error you need to experiment to fill out that which is unknown. I do experiment on my own site. I am just as likely to take a url five pages back in the same niche and experiment with it to find what works for that niche.

    But, if someone asks me to do work for them, I tell them right up front that it is a matter of luck and persistence. For any number of reasons, having a URL at number one is not an indication of the skill of the individual SEO. As an example, in my Landscaping niche I am unable to outrank a business of the same name in another state that uses Facebook. But then, I am not really trying hard - I am content to rank in the first five.

    I can tell you that while legal oriented links do not work well in Lawn Care/Landscaping, they kick ass in realty.

    Rather than answering a person asks why they do not rank first in SEO, you might be better off asking what the ranking factors might be. Instead of answering why you don't rank #1, you might be better off answering that there are many factors than make up a slot in the serps and that no one really knows what they are.

    As you can tell one on this site that is long in reading but short in experience, you can do so in the world in just about any subject.

    What you are asking is similar to a question my friend that owns the garage was asked by a physicist. The physicist asked what might be wrong with his car. My friend answered that the problem was probably the battery. The physicist went on to a long dialog as to why the problem could not be the battery. Later when he came back to pick the car up, he asked my friend what he did to make the car run better. My friend answered: "Changed the battery."
     
  16. splishsplash

    splishsplash Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Ranking is not shooting for luck at ALL :)

    You don't need to know every detail of the algorithm.

    We already know enough. The information is out there. You just have to test, read, test some more and put all the pieces together and you'll be amazed at just how easy it is to rank.

    Hint: It's these things, mostly :-

    1) Topical relevance - You need to be an authority in a topic otherwise you will be beaten by other topical authorities no matter how many backlinks you have.
    2) Trust - Links from trusted sites. (Relevance = not important)
    3) Power - Links from powerful sites (Relevance = less important. Contextual = less important, non-contextual = more important)
    4) Relevancy - Links from relevant sites (Power is less important)

    Ie, some links for trust, some links for power, and a bunch of links for relevancy. A step up is powerful relevant links, but that's not THAT important. You just don't want 80% non-relevant links. 20-30% relevant, 30-60% relevant to the general area and the rest just power/trust.

    It's a fairly static formula and google is pretty predictable. Rank enough sites and do enough experiments and you'll see what I mean. It just SEEMS random until you figure it out.

     
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  17. JustUs

    JustUs Power Member

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    I see you have done a lot of reading, but little ranking. You are doing nothing more than regurgitating.
     
  18. swagwaffle

    swagwaffle Registered Member

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  19. ContentWriter

    ContentWriter Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good one, @Asif WILSON Khan. It's a valid point, too. However, some might still raise an eyebrow with that response. I'm not an SEO service provider, however.
     
  20. Walt1SUCCESS

    Walt1SUCCESS Registered Member

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    I've never been asked this question. In 100% of seriousness, I do rank #1 on Google for "SEO services" in a foreign country. I got proof at my blog, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to it on BHW.

    /edit: If I would be asked of this question, I'd tell them to just Google me. My work talks for itself. Case closed.