Tested - NoHandsSEO on a brand new site.

lineguy · Dec 13, 2011

I have seen a few people asking if NoHandsSEO would be good to run on their brand new site. I thought I would share my experience, but I did this a couple of weeks ago so please forgive me for not remembering all exact details.

I put a small site (one money page, plus "about" and "privacy policy" pages) on a brand new domain looking to rank for a primary keyword that gets 12.1k exact searches per month, according to the google tool. A day or two later, my site was between the bottom of the second page, to the top of the third page. This was with absolutely no links pointing back to my site.

On day 2 or 3, I ran NHSEO. I had set it to post to a minimum PR of either 1 or 2, and gave it a couple very relevant keywords. I only let it run until it reported a total of about 1,000 links.

The next day, my site had tanked. It dropped a few hundred positions.

Several days later (it was still hundreds of positions away from the front page) I created a pyramid of articles, web2.0's, profiles, and social bookmarks. I created them all with a single unique article (while spinning it, of course) and posted it all with SeNukeX. After finishing and pinging my links, my site was brought back up to position 22, where it rests right now.

Conclusion:
The downside: It sucks to see that I damaged my ranking with NHSEO, and it really sucks to see that I'm building a bunch of links just to make up for that damage.

The upside: It was nice to see how quickly and easily I could recover from absolutely destroying my ranking. It didn't take any time at all, and all I used was a spun article to post all over the net. I did not acquire a single link from a related authority site, or any other "high-quality" link.

lineguy · Dec 13, 2011

For all the noobs out there, I just want to point out that this was not the fault of NHSEO. It's been said around here many times that if you blast thousands of low quality links to a brand new site, you're going to tank it for a while. That still holds true, if this experience is teaching me correctly. The same thing happens with scrapebox, xrumer, etc.

zmoney · Dec 13, 2011

I had someone do that to my site 2 months ago. Took 2 weeks and I got the -50, on pages that were running at 3-10 in the serps went to 50-60. Site was 1.5 months old.

Learned my lesson. It's still down

Waiting too see what happens.

I just gave the guy ONE keyword and one page, I didn't know too much about it. So, I'm PRETTY SURE it was just my own stupidity, slamming 1 single keyword etc. NOT the fault of NHSEO, do not want to imply that. But I learned my lesson about good practice etc.

Just my experience.

~Rob.

LBrown · Dec 13, 2011

How many links did it create to your site? I imagine that if you set the PR to 1+ and let it post to 1000 blogs then it probably only succeeded at posting maybe 2-5 links, plus all the whois sites. It would take a long time for it to post to 1000 URLs with a PR 1+ so the results of your experiments are not what you think.

If you want to do a NHSEO experiment leave it on for more than a day. Leave it on weeks for even months. That's how I've been running it on the MNS sites I use it for and my results have been very good. One day's worth of links with this tool is miniscule and completely insignificant. They won't hurt or help your site at all. The only way they could hurt is if Google saw you getting a few hundred links one day then nothing, so it is a link velocity problem. Your site dropped because you did nothing to make it deserve a page two position in Google for a term with 12k searches. When you started to build more significant links than your 2-5 comment links you started to rank. That makes sense to me and has nothing to do with the tool.

omida86 · Dec 13, 2011

LBrown said:
How many links did it create to your site? I imagine that if you set the PR to 1+ and let it post to 1000 blogs then it probably only succeeded at posting maybe 2-5 links, plus all the whois sites. It would take a long time for it to post to 1000 URLs with a PR 1+ so the results of your experiments are not what you think.

If you want to do a NHSEO experiment leave it on for more than a day. Leave it on weeks for even months. That's how I've been running it on the MNS sites I use it for and my results have been very good. One day's worth of links with this tool is miniscule and completely insignificant. They won't hurt or help your site at all. The only way they could hurt is if Google saw you getting a few hundred links one day then nothing, so it is a link velocity problem. Your site dropped because you did nothing to make it deserve a page two position in Google for a term with 12k searches. When you started to build more significant links than your 2-5 comment links you started to rank. That makes sense to me and has nothing to do with the tool.

I agree. Also, thin sites with a lot of backlinks usually get penalized. Google knows it's not natural for thin sites to have a lot of backlinks.

Autumn · Dec 13, 2011

I can't comment on NHSEO, but I'm extremely skeptical that _any_ link building technique is going to get you turfed the following day, especially 1000 links (which in reality would be much less as LBrown suggested). Gbot isn't that active and it doesn't spider the entire web every day; it would then take even longer for those extra links to be computed into the index and for you to receive any benefit or loss.

Also you ruined the validity of your case study by then going and building a whole bunch of other links - you have no way of knowing whether the gains you saw were a result of the NHSEO or the later stuff, or a combo of both.

therockz · Dec 13, 2011

I use nhseo to blast my backlinks on autopilot and it does a really nice job

charlie3 · Dec 13, 2011

I've heard a few different things about No Hands SEO, but I would assume if you set the limits very strict like no more than 100 OBLs and PR > 1 you can only get a few good links a day. Setting the limits very lenient can get you bad results I would assume.

Thoughts?

lineguy · Dec 13, 2011

LBrown said:
One day's worth of links with this tool is miniscule and completely insignificant. They won't hurt or help your site at all. The only way they could hurt is if Google saw you getting a few hundred links one day then nothing, so it is a link velocity problem. Your site dropped because you did nothing to make it deserve a page two position in Google for a term with 12k searches.

If you think that it couldn't have done anything positive or negative to my site, how do you explain it dropping hundreds of positions immediately after running NHSEO?

You're link velocity theory doesn't make any sense at all to me. I do understand the concept of a link growth profile reflecting certain things and being a useful indicator to Google. However, I do not see any reason that a tiny spike in links would cause a massive drop in rankings afterwards.

If you have any sort of source to back up your theory, please provide it.

gamingmaster42 · Dec 13, 2011

Interesting, I tested NHS on a brand new site, now it's ranking #4 for a mildly competitive keyword. Guess it depends on your niche, and your luck

LBrown · Dec 13, 2011

charlie3 said:
I've heard a few different things about No Hands SEO, but I would assume if you set the limits very strict like no more than 100 OBLs and PR > 1 you can only get a few good links a day. Setting the limits very lenient can get you bad results I would assume.

Thoughts?

I set my limits to be very lenient and it has done fine. I get 100-200 comments per day per project which really is not much at all.

I think people have a problem because they let it run for one day or one week and then stop suddenly. They are creating a link velocity problem and Google doesn't really like it if you are building links, building links, building links, then the links suddenly stop.

lineguy said:
If you think that it couldn't have done anything positive or negative to my site, how do you explain it dropping hundreds of positions immediately after running NHSEO?

You're link velocity theory doesn't make any sense at all to me. I do understand the concept of a link growth profile reflecting certain things and being a useful indicator to Google. However, I do not see any reason that a tiny spike in links would cause a massive drop in rankings afterwards.

If you have any sort of source to back up your theory, please provide it.

Your problem was not link velocity, but I think most people who write about the failings of NHSEO have a link velocity problem. Your problem was that you did nothing to the site but let NHSEO make a small number of comments. It was on page 2 because it had a new site bump. Then it went where it deserved to be: not ranking, because it had insufficient links. When you built the links you started ranking.

Autumn · Dec 13, 2011

lineguy said:
If you think that it couldn't have done anything positive or negative to my site, how do you explain it dropping hundreds of positions immediately after running NHSEO?

You're link velocity theory doesn't make any sense at all to me. I do understand the concept of a link growth profile reflecting certain things and being a useful indicator to Google. However, I do not see any reason that a tiny spike in links would cause a massive drop in rankings afterwards.

If you have any sort of source to back up your theory, please provide it.

I personally don't think that this is a link velocity issue; I think you're mistaking correlation with causation. 24 hours isn't enough time for your 1000 shitty links to get spidered and then factored into the index. Low quality bulk link building doesn't work like that. However, 1000 shit links for a 3 day old site is a pretty big red flag.

However, there are numerous patents that reference link velocity and penalizing sites with dubious rates of link growth, eg.

Code:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,346,839.PN.&OS=PN/7,346,839&RS=PN/7,346,839

While a spiky rate of growth in the number of back links may be a factor used by search engine 125 to score documents, it may also signal an attempt to spam search engine 125. Accordingly, in this situation, search engine 125 may actually lower the score of a document(s) to reduce the effect of spamming.

LBrown said:
It was on page 2 because it had a new site bump. Then it went where it deserved to be: not ranking, because it had insufficient links. When you built the links you started ranking.

That's it in a nutshell.

lineguy · Dec 13, 2011

Autumn said:
I can't comment on NHSEO, but I'm extremely skeptical that _any_ link building technique is going to get you turfed the following day, especially 1000 links (which in reality would be much less as LBrown suggested).

It is possible that the site dropped due to it's age only. IIRC I have had sites pop up for the first day or so, and then drop way back without any activity of my own. On the other hand, I don't recall ever having a site drop this far back. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but it does seem highly unlikely to me. My site was pushed back hundreds of positions, back to where the crappy sites are (sites that have been penalized by Panda, and sites that aren't even in english). Considering my page used unique content and had the on page SEO done alright, it doesn't seem to make sense that it was launched into the garbage realm without any sort of penalty being enacted.

Autumn said:
Also you ruined the validity of your case study by then going and building a whole bunch of other links - you have no way of knowing whether the gains you saw were a result of the NHSEO or the later stuff, or a combo of both.

Several days later, my ranking was the same. Within hours of creating new links, my rank dramatically changed. If that was from the links created by NHSEO, that would be one hell of a timing coincidence, wouldn't it?

Autumn · Dec 13, 2011

lineguy said:
It is possible that the site dropped due to it's age only. IIRC I have had sites pop up for the first day or so, and then drop way back without any activity of my own. On the other hand, I don't recall ever having a site drop this far back. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but it does seem highly unlikely to me. My site was pushed back hundreds of positions, back to where the crappy sites are (sites that have been penalized by Panda, and sites that aren't even in english). Considering my page used unique content and had the on page SEO done alright, it doesn't seem to make sense that it was launched into the garbage realm without any sort of penalty being enacted.

Several days later, my ranking was the same. Within hours of creating new links, my rank dramatically changed. If that was from the links created by NHSEO, that would be one hell of a timing coincidence, wouldn't it?

Ranking is ALL about links and has very little to do with content, regardless of what the whitehats might say. The fact that your site had what you think is nice content is irrelevant to ranking; it got the new sites boost that all sites get and then it got shitcanned because it had no links.

You don't mention whether you actually validated that the NHSEO links actually even existed, you don't mention whether they got indexed or not, whether you backlinked your backlinks etc. A quick look at teh NHSEO site indicates that they're really shitty bottom of the barrel links anyway (trackbacks, whois sites, NF comment links... the worst way to start off a new site).

If your second round of link building got you some links from trusted web2.0s that got indexed fast then that could explain your sudden increase in rankings. But without proper research and hard numbers (by you) it's just a bunch of maybes.

In short: no offense but your case study sucks and you haven't "tested" anything in any meaningful way.

lineguy · Dec 13, 2011

Wow Autumn, I bet your real fun at parties.

floombus · Dec 13, 2011

The OP is wrong and is another noob who has once again posted stupid comments about a tool which is good in the hands of someone who has common sense and experience in Im.

Your half decent rankings before you used nhseo is a thing called goggle love. It doesn't last long and it's basically goggles finding New Site, you putting itin the index and waiting.

Secondly, the whengoogle saw you werebuilding links, It put you intothe google dance trying to figure out where itshould then put you.

Third there are tens more factors which can contribute to your sites rankings. Not just 1 nhseo blast.

I was once a noob, and but instead posting false accusations giving shhit to good programs, I read more bhw, experimented more.

floombus · Dec 13, 2011

lineguy said:
Wow Autumn, I bet your real fun at parties.

The dude autmn is 110% correct.

W1zdom · Dec 13, 2011

NHSEO works for me !

sixalarm · Dec 13, 2011

If you are gonna do a proper case study, then you need to let it run a lot longer. I havent used NHSEO, but I would be skeptical that is caused your site to plummet that quickly. Could it have? Entirely possible. However, the way you performed the test it is impossible to tell. A good test isolates a single variable and tests it without any other variables being in play. Also, seo takes time. It takes time for google to find links and incorporate them into the serps. If I were you, I would do another test. Run NHSEO for several weeks and record what your site does each day. Document what links are getting indexed and what kind of link they are. Don't run any other programs or do anything other than NHSEO. Once you know what it can do by itself, then you will be able to know how to incorporate it into a full scale link building campaign (if it is worth it). Really, testing is the key to learning this stuff. I have found that out the hard way. But testing is the only way to figure out what works and what doesnt.

StreamlineWeb · Dec 13, 2011

I've used NHSEO on a 1 month old side, ran it day & night for at least a month, blasting only 1 keyword. No negative issues..

I think the challenge is we don't know if it was the sudden drop in your link building that caused it... but I suspect that is why. Google thought your link was timely, such as a death of a celebrity. LOTS of backlinks (allegedly) overnight, but then a sudden stop. Google doesn't judge how timely your message is; ie. it wouldn't know that the average timely message (celebrity death) is supposed to last X days, it just sees the pattern of LOTS OF LINKS, then suddenly _no_ links.

Disclaimer: This is all my own opinion and based on a mishmash of what I've read. I have no scientific evidence to back myself up... but it makes sense to me!

Tested - NoHandsSEO on a brand new site.

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