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Terrified of Charge backs... I need some guidence

Discussion in 'Business & Tax Advice' started by Plus44, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Plus44

    Plus44 Power Member

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    This type of money may seem like fun coupons to some of you, but to me, this type of shit is almost half what I make at my day job in a week http://i.imgur.com/BGQ8PKy.jpg

    Back in July I had a kid do over $100 in chargebacks for nearly 50 different payments that he sent over a period of 2 months...I simply called PP and won them all... But now as my site is growing and getting more attention, I'm becoming a little more afraid of handling the types of orders I'm getting. I have now had a few customers spend over $500 total on this site over the past few months... What if one of them is just being an asshole, using me for all I can offer, then just plans to do a chargeback for everything once they're finished with me?

    Say my PP is linked to my bank account that has $500 in it, then I get a chargeback for $1000... This could possibly overdraft my bank account if I do not have the funds to cover it, right? I have also read here on BHW that if you get too many chargebacks, then you either get limited or banned... This site of mine has had about 700 total unique orders now with almost 40 chargebacks.

    Can someone shed some light on this for me? I even unlinked my bank account from my business PP account because I am just F******** terrified that I'll go out to dinner with people one night, leaving with $1,000 in my bank account, then my card will get declined just cuz some assholes do a chargeback while I'm out at the wrong time. I've been sending the money from my business account to my personal account and withdrawing from there...And the fees aren't fun

    I'm stressing hard
     
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  2. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    This is a great question. Where are the Paypal/Online Business experts of Blackhatworld?

    I'm not where the OP is money-wise, but I'm in a similar boat. I would like some responses to this question too.
     
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  3. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    Double post... by mistake...

    mmm... BUMP!!
     
  4. hammonds22

    hammonds22 BANNED BANNED

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    I also would love to know how to get protection against this multiple transactions from 1 individual.. Coz the bad scenario is really possible.
     
  5. Elliot305

    Elliot305 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    The main rule I follow is to not be weak about these type issues. I've experienced my fair share of people trying to scam me and I respond by sending them a copy of what I will send to Paypal, so they have only 1 chance of taking care of the issue before shit gets real:

    To: PayPal

    Re: Charge-back filed on xxx

    (INTRO) This letter will serve as a timeline for the events that have led up to this charge back claim of "item not received." After you read this letter and the attached supporting documents you will have a clear picture that this is a fraudulent claim and Mr. xxx is committing numerous acts in violation of Federal law. After this investigation is completed I would ask that you take all necessary action in your power against Mr. xxx, including but not limited to: (1) terminating his PayPal account (2) contacting his credit card issuing bank and reporting such fraudulent conduct (3) contacting Visa and reporting such fraudulent conduct (4) contacting applicable U.S. Federal authorities and reporting such fraudulent conduct (5) contacting the applicable local authorities where Mr. xxx resides and reporting such fraudulent conduct.

    Such blatant misconduct and fraudulent activities should not be tolerated. This is a clear case of credit card fraud whereby Mr. xxx purchased consulting services from me and now claims he never received them. I would first like you to look at the prima facie evidence and ask yourself the following question: Is it reasonable to think that someone who paid for goods and services back in December, acknowledged receipt of said goods and services and utilized them during that same time, can now make a claim of "item not received" in March?! I was astounded and befuddled by this blatant attempt of credit card fraud by Mr. xxx. However, as with all criminals, they don't really think things through. So let's begin...

    (DETAILS ABOUT YOUR SITUATION GO HERE)

    (CLOSING)

    I have no clue what Mr. xxx's intentions are in doing the charge back. CLEARLY, he received what he was supposed to receive. It's sad that Mr. XXX has decided to take this fraudulent path but the damage is now done. As such, I would demand that this case be closed effective immediately and any and all deductions be credited back to my account and Mr. xxx be investigated to the fullest extent of the law for credit card fraud. I will also be contacting the DA's office independently and will reference this letter in my complaint with them. Once I hear back that you've decided to pursue this matter with the credit card company (i.e, fighting on my behalf), I will then initiate litigation against Mr. xxx on my own behalf while you investigate the fraudulent activities on your end. I have attached a screenshot of his online profile in case the authorities need it for identification purposes.

    Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.


    To sum up, fight fire with fire.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
  6. Sythix

    Sythix Senior Member

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    Simple. Stop withdrawing the money until the 30 days or whatever it takes that they can't charge back or ask for a refund. I am going through the same thing right now, I have profit money in my account, but I'm not even going to think about spending or moving it until it's been a month or so, for this very reason.
     
  7. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    Damn Elliot. That's brutal man. Really great stuff.

    Haha Paypal goes, "We don't need the hassle. This guy looks like he might take this all the way up to the supreme court. Just let him have his money. We don't care about the proof. Give the man his money!!" :D
     
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  8. mineallmine

    mineallmine Newbie

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    Almost everytime I have fought a chargeback I have won. Usually you have some idiot doing the chargeback just to see if he can get away with it. If you respond with something that says you delivered what was promised via the PP dispute interface, they will usually give up on it and you will win.
     
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  9. Elliot305

    Elliot305 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yes, I won against all scammers whether that would be Paypal siding on my behalf, the credit card company siding on my behalf or the scammer deciding to just drop the matter completely. Although with the latter they may have researched my background in litigation and knew it was a lost cause which made their decision that much easier.
     
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  10. soulcollector

    soulcollector Senior Member

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    I make people pay for shipping and sign when the item arrives. IF no signature or they refuse to do it, then I simply don't sell to that scammer. You will find it also works with having them provide valid proof of identification on file for you if you are doing thousands of dollars in business with them. I also have them sign and acknowledge multiple agreements that cover my ass and ultimately hold them responsible for their actions with my services / products.

    There is no easy way to get rid of scammers, you just need to be prepared that one day, that one scammer was setup so correctly that he was able to take you for a nice ride. you move on, report it, cry on it, hope the asshole gets caught, etc.
     
  11. azen068

    azen068 Junior Member

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    Nice stuff Elliot, really nice.
     
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  12. ajay88

    ajay88 Newbie

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    im getting this on my site, too, lots of fruadsters trying to order.

    whats the best way to deal with this? im presuming shipping to the billing address is playing it super safe right? rather than shipping to a alternative shipping address?
     
  13. Pookok

    Pookok Newbie

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    Wow! I need Elliot in my life! This is just amazing! I have had enough of kids charging back claiming they have not received their intangible / virtual goods when they actually have as I have an automated system that gives it out to them and if there was really an error with the system why do they still have their virtual goods etc...
     
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  14. GrahamCrackers

    GrahamCrackers BANNED BANNED

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    I just stopped using PayPal. I still have an account with them but too many people use them because they know if they don't get what "they feel" is deserved. They are behind a computer and can click a button and nit feel any type of bad doing fraud.
    I just had a situation where the dude committed to my service but gave me the runaround about not paying because he had "bad vibes"
    I don't need your money that bad. If you can't handle my terms then you aren't at my level. Many people see PayPal as a means to a "back up"
    Get Venmo. Btc. I do understand being scammed from a buyers side but most aren't here to scam.

    I may have less business because I simply won't take PayPal unless you totally trustworthy or something phenomenal.

    Just the nature of the business. Lots of people who have no idea what they are doing and when something doesn't work in the manner they feel it should. They won't hesitate to exploit it so they can have their money.
     
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  15. bugmaster

    bugmaster BANNED BANNED

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    I dislike Paypal for this same reason. I utilize it and other payment methods because of the fact when I removed it as a payment option in the past my sales went down dramatically. I very rarely get a dispute but when I do I usullay win or If it is a small amount I will just refund the money. But the statement Elliot Wrote I love and may use If I get a large dispute.
     
  16. Ste Fishkin

    Ste Fishkin Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Open another bank account.

    Chargebacks happen, its part of selling online.

    Open another bank account to receive payments, once a day/week/month all the incoming money you take should be transferred to another bank account. This stops paypal taking money you need to operate so at least you have cash to buy goods and survive.

    Now when a charge back comes in there are two types:
    1. The goods did not arrive
    2. Unauthorised transaction

    For the goods not arriving you need to prove you sent it and it did indeed arrive. We have fought loads of these and won them all with this step by step process. (we use sagepay, not paypal).
    1. Provide the original invoice the buyer should have gotten.
    2. Provide invoice for the product you sold to prove you had it.
    3. Provide invoice for the postal service you used.
    4. Provide a print out of the tracking information.
    5. Provide a print out of the signature the courier got from the customer.
    6. provide a cover letter explaining what all this is.
    7. scan and copy the original letter you received from the payment processor.

    For unauthorised transactions this is on a case by case basis. With paypal I would argue its their responsibility to ensure that users accounts are safe and that your site meets all their security criteria they have laid out. Offer to supply any information you can to solve the problem and just aim to help them as much as you can. We have not had any of these cases against us yet but I'm confident it would not be our problem if it arose.

    but the best bit of advice you will get is stop using paypal. They always side with the buyer and despite the fact you are their customer also they simply will not give a fuck about you. Stripe are the same...

    Get a merchant account ASAP and use a company like sagepay or worldpay. They are so much better to deal with and they are much much cheaper.
     
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