okay.. so what is the reason that everyone continues blackhat SEO when it is obviously,, not working to good anymore.? Don't get me wrong, i am sure there are still some methods that can fool google. but here is the thing, and i want everyones opinion. MATT CUTTS HIMSELF IS ON BHW!? So he obviously know's what we do and how to counter it, than man is really smart! I mean, I really feel like he sits at home reading BHW laughing at all of us because everytime someone posts something new about a BH method, he can read it and find a way to counter it. now i know that there are some things BH that are really hard to counter. But all the experts out there, i ask you. Have you had better success with BH or WH? I really am interested in knowing. I dont believe we can get away with the things we used to. I also feel there is no point since whitehat SEO is so easy. We can use our tools for whitehat seo. there are some of us that know how to actually use the tools instead of just spamming the internet. but if you think about it, that itself is more to be grayhat than blackhat because we are actually not spamming at all. Simply providing relevant content for our niche. What do you think? I thought it would be an interesting talk.