1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Sold site to guy, now he's claiming I fraud him, requesting refund, Please Help!

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by tks2115, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. tks2115

    tks2115 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    20
    About two months ago I sold a site to a guy on DP for $575.

    Before buying it, he teamviewered into my computer, check my adsense account to see all earnings are real, and went through my analytics to see if all the traffic are real.

    After this, he went ahead and paypaled me $575.

    Now On Dec 5th, I saw that he asked for a full refund and said I fraud him.

    I checked my adsense account and saw that I'm still getting stats from that site which means the guy didn't even change all the codes on the site to his adsense account. I replied to him on DP:

    I need help guys, i have money in my paypal that i urgently need and their putting my account on hold.
     
  2. shravandude

    shravandude Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,172
    Likes Received:
    379
    Location:
    On this earth
    You can send a screenshot to paypal saying that the website has been transferred and not
    going to refund the money since every thing was delivered after performing through inspection
    by the customer by means of team viewer.

    Dont forget to include the screenshots of the skype chats and what ever logs you have from
    the customer.

    But at the end you should not have included your adsense even after selling the website.
    May be that is what he is referring to as fraud.
     
  3. infocraze

    infocraze Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    30
    Never make such transactions using paypal, it could always end up this way whether or not you happen to be at fault. Your best bet would be to phone up paypal and explain your situation to them, you might as well win the case.

    What you could do however is to simply tell paypal that you have delivered the service and there is no way for you to provide tracking information as it is not a tangible product.
     
  4. theweg

    theweg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    121
    Occupation:
    Trader/Wholesaler
    Digital goods such as websites (in your case) are not covered by paypal if they limited your account call them and tell them that the payment was for digital goods and therefore is not covered by paypal buyer protection. Write the same thing on the dispute/claim page.

    I know this is bad way to deal with this situation but fraud buyers deserve it.
     
  5. dp40oz

    dp40oz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    174
    Home Page:
    Any website of value should be done through escrow with a 3 day return time. Don't leave things like this up to the 19 year old intern at the paypal dispute department.
     
  6. arstyles

    arstyles Junior Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    109
    Occupation:
    Graphic/Website Design and Marketing Online/Offlin
    Location:
    CT, USA
    1st. With Paypal .. Never ever leave money.. Take out as quickly as possible.
    2nd. Try talking to Buyer, get some time to show him site still works and ask him politely to remove his dispute from Paypal.
     
  7. howard_hughes

    howard_hughes Elite Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,048
    Likes Received:
    3,684
    Occupation:
    Just Another Digital Marketer!
    Location:
    "Insta Rank"
    Home Page:
    Next time use Escrow
     
  8. pxoxrxn

    pxoxrxn Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    2,066
    Whats dp? I don't think there is anything you can do but wait till they read his claim an realise he is just a sook with buyers remorse.
     
  9. tks2115

    tks2115 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    20
    Thanks guys, so it looks like this case is in my favor.
     
  10. JasonS

    JasonS Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    2,989
    Likes Received:
    912
    Home Page:
    DP = Digitalpoint

    @OP: I think you should wait for his reply, as you said he even didn't change the adsense codes so he must be newbie and don't even know how to change it.
     
  11. hardcorebiker

    hardcorebiker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    Likes Received:
    1,045
    Occupation:
    Digital Marketer
    Location:
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Ignore him. Isn't 45 days already up? So he can't file a dispute.
     
  12. harshareddy

    harshareddy Power Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    160
    Occupation:
    SEO
    Location:
    Invisible
    True, i dont see you did any fraud, if he is that mad not to change adsense code its his problem. report to dp moderator that he is bugging you and ignore him.


    after 45 days paypal will hardly care to look at that case, though they have right to look after 6 months
     
  13. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    1,495
    Find a photo of someone that has been killed in a violent crime, or in war, preferably something gory, like half their face is shot off, or their brains are coming out of a hole in their head, and send that photo to him with the note saying that this is what happened to the last person that fucked with you, and that he is going to end up the exact same way if he does not fuck off and go away.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  14. kvmcable

    kvmcable Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Occupation:
    24 year business owner - old school dude
    Location:
    KFC - BW3
    Good luck OP but my guess is the buyer wins. Even if he loses the dispute he probably funded with Credit Card and can file a chargeback to recover his money.

    Rather than being aggressive and trying to make him keep a site he doesn't want; I would suggest you contact him politely and explain you're sorry he's disappointed and would like to settle this matter for the benefit of all parties. Explain you'll give him a full refund once he returns the domain name to your account. With any luck and if you talk nicely to him, he'll agree and push the domain back to your account and you can close the dispute with a refund. You then have something of value you can sell in the future.

    If you get angry, force him to accept this site and argue legal points there is a very good chance you're going to lose the site, domain and your money. Try to recover your site and maybe the buyer is honest and will return it.

    Those that think you'll win because it's a website, digital delivery, blah blah blah, obviously haven't sold many websites. It's not an open and close case and if the buyer claims fraudulent transaction you'll lose most of the time. If you look at possible resolutions in your PP resolution center you probably don't even have a place to offer a rebuttal. You can provide a refund, respond you've already given a refund or offer a tracking number with proof of delivery. Typically they don't even allow you to offer a rebuttal and the only resolution is a refund.

    If you did somehow win the dispute, expect a follow-up with a chargeback in which you'll have no options but to return the money. Try and get the site back with the domain is your best move in this chess match. Good luck.
     
  15. kvmcable

    kvmcable Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Occupation:
    24 year business owner - old school dude
    Location:
    KFC - BW3
    I'm pretty sure that defines the criminal act of intimidation. The OP might want to check his local laws before acting on your suggestion. While great text for forum bravado it might cost him a few days of freedom :)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    1,495
    Clean hands. If the Buyer is fraudulently disputing the sale, he is in the commission of a crime. I very much doubt that the International Internet Police are going to investigate the crime of a criminal being threatened by their victim.

    Besides that, if the Buyer files a criminal charges, his identity becomes known, then his address, his phone number, his email, what his habits are, what kind of car he drives, etc... All sorts of fun things can happen at that point.

    Everyone assumes that the Buyer is just going to give back the website after/if the dispute is resolved in his favor. He might want the money AND the website.
     
  17. Nigel Farage

    Nigel Farage BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    1,495
    And besides that, I'll have you know that I'm just as brave on Skype as I am on a Forum, so I'm no "Keyboard Warrior".
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  18. mrsix

    mrsix Power Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    785
    Likes Received:
    465
    Location:
    PNW
    The $ earned in your AdSense account, since the date of sale is rightfully his. I'd offer to send that to him, or offer a partial refund of that amount from the original sale amount, and explain if necessary how to update the codes on the site he bought.
     
  19. kvmcable

    kvmcable Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Occupation:
    24 year business owner - old school dude
    Location:
    KFC - BW3
    98% of the world is honest; Good odds to live by. Live by the creed that everyone is of the 2% will drive you mad and you probably shouldn't be conducting business on the web or business at all for that matter.

    Before conducting a $600 transaction due diligence should always be performed to at least discover who you're working with. At this point in the game there shouldn't be any need to discover a real name, address, phone number and / or legal jurisdiction.

    I've said it a few times but might be worth mentioning again; when accepting PP as a payment option you should hold the transfer of the domain for at least 60 - 90 days. Most claims are before 90 days. If the buyer wants / demands immediate possession of the domain then he needs a more secure method of payment (escrow, wire).

    The elephant in the room is where was the communications between the buyer and seller? I would imagine the dispute didn't come from the buyer before his failed attempts at reaching the seller. Most won't claim fraud when communication is open.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  20. tks2115

    tks2115 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    20
    Thanks everyone, I used everyones advice, and eventually won the case, got my money back and won't ever use paypal again.

    Lesson learned: USE ESCROW for sites.:D
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1