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Six-Figure Lead Gen Biz - Part I (introduction and niche selection)

Discussion in 'Making Money' started by kboxer7, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    SIX-FIGURE LEAD GEN BUSINESS PART I: (Intro & Niche Selection)

    *Part II A: Lead Types, Lead Gen Methods, Niche Giveaways
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/making-money/488131-part-ii-six-figure-lead-gen-biz-lead-gen-methods-lead-types-niche-giveaways.html

    Ok, before I get started....a little about me for those that don't know:



    - At least 10 years experience in IM (I lose count)
    - Bachelors of Science undergrad studies
    - MBA graduated
    - Corporate experience in sales, marketing and leadership at the managerial level for a Fortune 500
    - Have Successfully owned or own and operate a number of incorporated businesses covering the following services:

    * Consulting (business strategy, risk management, growth & sustainability)
    * Sales training (consumer and B2B)
    * Lead Gen (biz op, real estate, fitness/health, insurance, higher education, corporate training)
    * Marketing (SEO, social, web dev, etc)
    * Technology Solutions (payment processing, CRM solutions, automation of tasks, etc)

    Whether any of that means anything is up to each of you. I put it out there because inevitably those questions about
    what experience and/or background I have always come up. This is simply a pre-emptive strike to that foreseeable inquiry.

    I am not however, taking on any new clients at this point in time (please do not ask). If at any time in the future I decide
    to open up our services to the masses I will certainly let BHW know first.


    ****************************************************
    NOW ON TO THE FUN PART....
    - Intro to the method behind the madness, and NICHE Selection

    Upcoming Topics:

    *How to generate leads
    *How, where and who to sell leads to

    *How to "capture" & dissect information effectively

    *How to get contracts (EASY I promise...even for the non-sales types)

    *Lateral promotion and parallel markets

    .....and much more


    A. Preface:

    The Death Of Internet Marketing.

    Before I get the "GTFO" messages coming in, let me explain. I've been in IM long enough to see it's evolution.
    It is my "belief" (not fact) that in say, 3-8 years affiliate marketing will become just as hard if not harder than
    building a brick and mortar business due to saturation, regulation, and the big boy Fortune 500s and companies
    like Google pushing out the little guy trying to feed his family.

    The gap between the part-time website owner trying to make enough to pay his mortgage or that next car payment
    and the LARGE players is ever widening.

    That said, my goals have shifted over the last couple years to developing sustainable businesses that have intrinsic
    long-term value/equity which can be leveraged despite Google or the like pushing me out, and that also offer an
    "exit strategy" (which is where the real money often lies anyway).

    Enter Lead Gen....it's where I started and where I've come full circle back to.


    B. What this is NOT:

    This "guide" or whatever you want to call it is NOT...

    a. NOT selling SEM/leads to local Ma and Pops who don't know the value of their customer from their right hand

    b. NOT Renting out ad space on blogs....what a pain in the ass that is.

    That stuff has been done, played out to a sad song, and ended up being a WASTE of time. Why the hell would you
    even try to convince a store owner to pay you for leads? Any SERIOUS business knows leads are better than GOLD
    and should beg you for more.

    c. NOT an email marketing guide...in fact, my business model relies on ZERO email marketing. That's right, a list/lead
    gen thread with no MASS emailing needed.


    C. What this IS:

    A fresh perspective on what it really takes to make serious money with lists, list building and lead generation. I'm talking
    no BS six figures in one year money.

    Forget mass emailing, forget shitty CPA companies scrubbing leads and devaluing your business.

    I'm talking about massive lead generation in highly competitive niches tailored to micro GEO markets, and sold direct to
    sales agents, brokers, etc who will pay $xx - $xxxx for each lead or a rev share deal that could net you 10x that amount.

    I'm talking about building a real lead gen business from the ground up, retaining all the data (gold) and establishing a real
    life business with real assets and equity/value that can be sold off to the right buyers for $xxx,xxx or more.

    This is not a get rich quick kind of thing, but done right you can easily make 6 figures your first year. Hell, I still have clients
    from 8 years ago asking me if I can get them leads. Too many "threads" focus on building clients websites and doing SEO,
    but they forget why they are doing that in the first place....

    To get the client NEW BUSINESS. Without leads that just doesn't happen.




    D. Ok, so Why direct sales?

    1. Cut out shitty CPA companies that skim/scrub, as well as a "middle man" in general.

    Why not go directly to the source, build up your list of industry contacts which will result in more sales, etc etc. You'll need
    those contacts if you decide to "sell the farm" as your exit strategy.

    How much do you think a mortgage broker, insurance broker, etc would pay for a lead gen network bringing in 100 leads
    a month? Hmm, well if Adwords CPC is $20 let's say, $20 x 100 = $2000 a month. That $2000 doesn't even get them 100 leads.

    Even at an unheard of 20% conversion rate they would get what...20 leads for an effective cost per lead of $100. $100
    multiplied by the 100 leads you generate per month = $10,000.

    $10,000 x 12 months = $120,000 = The worth of your "lead gen" network per annum to a company.


    2. In industries that allow it, you can broker/JV a rev-share deal:

    How much is a % of a sale on Real Estate, etc? Yes, I know real estate and many high paying niches have regulations, but there
    are legal ways around this:

    a. Monthly marketing fee that is renegotiated every month/2 months etc. Renegotiations will obviously take into consideration
    the quality of leads while not explicitly being based on that lead "converting."

    b. Get licensed. Not really feasible for medical stuff, but for insurance, real estate, etc it may be worth it long term.

    3. You still maintain ownership of the "data"
    When marketing CPA offers you basically give up the data to others. With this model you retain ownership of the most valuable
    asset you have. You can "resell" these to others (depending on your contracts), directly to online lead brokers or auctions, on
    LinkedIn, or even mail them with your own CPA offer on the backend.


    4. Get Paid IN ADVANCE!

    That's right folks. Most lead gen providers (after a sufficient sample) will be on contract and will PRE-PAY you in advance for
    your leads. Name me a CPA company that does that!



    D. Niche Selection:

    Ok, this can literally make or break you. Forget SEO for a moment....yes I know we are bred to look at keyword competition first.

    Scratch that. We won't be using SEO in the traditional sense and only for a minute portion of traffic anyway (this will be covered later on).

    First a little education. There are essentially 2 types of niches out there that can be profitable.


    1. Low lifetime value:

    - high volume traffic/demand
    - lower sales price
    - little or no unique sales propositions
    - typically "one-off" sales
    - not much ability to cross sell

    Yeah, these are easy to set up and promote, but no long term value here. I have a registry repair website (yes, outing a niche).
    It was my first website ever in internet marketing. The site still makes $100 a month or so with pretty much no promotion.
    Used to make up to $300 a month. Not bad for hands off income....but that's where it ends. Who the hell would join a
    newsletter or fill out an opt in form on a Registry repair site? ...........don't worry, I'll wait haha.


    Point is even though I could get creative on that site, it's not a niche conductive to other offers and building long term value.


    2. High lifetime value
    - typically higher price items
    - more USPs
    - repeat sales likely
    - less traffic volume/lower conversion
    - cross promotion friendly
    - conducive to list building
    *Think investing, hobbies, dating, careers and professions, etc


    Ideas to get you going (some provide higher lifetime value through ticket price rather than repeat sales):
    - Investing, stocks, day trading, etc
    - Finance, loans, mortgages, lines of credit,
    - Real estate
    - Jobs/Career/biz op
    - Insurance/medical/cosmetic/dental
    - Legal
    - Remodeling, roofing, additions
    - Industrial products/machinery
    - Boats, cars, RVs

    Often harder to get traffic for/highly competitive, etc. This is why most people steer away. Fact is, in these niches,
    5 leads a day can be $100 a day easy. For those of you bad at math that can be a $36,000 a year income from 5
    measly leads a day (maybe even more than $36k).

    Point is, volume doesn't always mean it's a winner. And high competition niches shouldn't be cast off just because of
    SEO issues. Remember when I said this business model will insulate you from Google? That's cause you don't want
    to rely on Google for your traffic (or at least not any more than 30% of it).


    SO HOW DO I CHOOSE:

    1. Select a high ticket price niche in an industry that is known for buying leads:

    These will be easy to sell to buyers and you know they will work them hard, thus resulting in an increased chance for
    conversions and repeat sales/contracts. Remember, you want to work in industries where they KNOW the value and
    cost of each prospective customer/client. I started in higher education and insurance.


    2. Use your Network/Knowledge:

    It's always easy to start with what you know. If you have any contacts in an industry where direct sales occurs then
    start there to test the waters. I worked in both insurance and higher education, and that is where I started. I knew the
    metrics, what leads were worth, what agents/sales reps expected from leads, etc. Made the transition much easier for me.

    3. Select Niches that are NON-seasonal and Nationwide/Worldwide:

    Long tail geo keywords are always good for PPC or SEO (we'll be using a multi-tiered marketing plan with regards to this
    lead gen biz). Seasonal items provide too much fluctuation in revenue for my liking (to each their own)



    4. Select niches with 3 monetization options:

    Ok, I know I said we'd be selling direct leads (lead gen). BUT, any good businessman has a backup plan for his backup
    plan. That said, Select a niche that you can:


    a. Find CPA offers for
    b. Can sell leads to online lead brokers
    c. Use for alternatives such as adsense etc.
    d. Can sell to or cross promote to (via email or phone) yourself.



    5. Recurring and Cross promotion capable:

    Recurring income products/services sold to leads can often provide residual income for a leadgen provider if you
    contract based on a rev share deal. My goal was always to get pre-paid a fee + backend bonus or rev share based
    on the industry.


    It's Sunday, and I'm tired...........end of Part I. Hopefully that was enough to "wet the palate" of some of you. Please
    let me know if you found this interesting, intriguing, helpful, etc so I'll be encouraged to continue this long rant with Part II.


    I've got a lot of good info in store.

    Regards,
     
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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  2. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    No replies huh?

    Maybe I didn't reveal enough first post. Open to suggestions on the follow up thread.

    I presumed there would at least be some questions. Took me a while to type that up.

    Anyway, this is based on real life experience. Like I said, I've done this is a few niche markets (health/life insurance, higher education, corporate training, bizz op). I'm getting back into the Lead Gen game due to the ever tiresome dealings with Google and affiliate networks squeezing out my hard earned $$$.

    I'm experienced in a wide array of areas if anyone has any offshoot questions (contracts, sales, etc). Otherwise I'll continue to expand on the original topic.

    Regards,
     
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  3. abhi007

    abhi007 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    such an informative post i am wondering myself why there are no replies to this thread yet so many good pointers.
     
  4. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Thanks haha. Must be an off time of the day/night....and it's Sunday. I just want to make sure this topic has value for people. If you have any suggestions on follow up topics or ideas let me know.

    Thanks!
     
  5. pyronaut

    pyronaut Executive VIP

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    Don't feel bad about the lack of replies, it's to be expected when you are talking about something so big. I am in agreement that to really make a decent income from IM, will soon be like creating a bricks and mortar business. And honestly I think it's good. I remember when I first got started, just spamming the shite out of everything I could, sending the lowest quality traffic around. Heck even spamming twitter like nobodies business through their own API. It's all slowing down, and now things like real world CPA is going to be where the money is at.

    I'm not going to vomit lies about "I will try this out immediately" and never get back to you, since it's just not my thing. But something for future posts. Give us a good example of a start to end campaign. e.g. what do you use to capture data? A simple email submit? A full form submit? How about using phone number tracking? Do you ever go offline marketing? The best posts that last a lifetime here on BHW are ones that have real world knowledge to share. Not theoretical babble. So lay down some real world info on us.

    Actually interestingly enough, I work for a large classifieds company in my country. We have recently switched from a "monthly fee" unlimited listings model, to a CPA model based on both email and phone enquiries. Routing all phone calls through a centralised system that logs whether they pick up, how long the call is for etc. I know for a fact it is the easiest sale our sales guys will ever make. We charge a nominal "setup fee" which is piss cheap, and then there is almost zero risk to the client.
     
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  6. Laughing-Man

    Laughing-Man Regular Member

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    Bookmarked..
     
  7. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Great advice.

    My mind wasn't on full speed (being sunday) and I was somehow thinking it would be best to "parcel" out the info on such a large topic into smaller chunks. I think in doing so I missed the opportunity to show some actionable items and illustrations. Noted for future postings on the topic.

    I've done this on scale in the past. We are planning on rolling this model out on a very large scale for a secondary monetization solution on a platform our team is developing atm. Just thought it would be good to start with the conceptual and progress from there.

    Best regards,
     
  8. trakstar

    trakstar Newbie

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    Great Read. Very slept on post right here
     
  9. IamNRE

    IamNRE Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Good post, look forward to part 2.

    Dabbled with the thought of selling leads but when I was calling the local shops I was getting wish washy replies in regards to them being actually intr. in buying leads.

    BTW... I think it may just be a time thing.... Here in UK its like 4am... India... must be going on like 7am ... US... prolly around 11pm *sunday. People will pop up im sure!

    GREAT POST + rep!
     
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  10. garretb

    garretb Newbie

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    Thanks so much for posting this there's a lot of great information here. I will be following this definately and look forward to reading more about it as it sounds like a nice method. I'm interested in what method you use to capture leads in your niche. Do you just ask people to sign up on a website with all their information if they're interested in say insurance or secondary education or something? and also how you find companies to purchase the leads? Do you just go out and contact companies in your niche and offer leads for sale? Thanks again.
     
  11. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Thanks IamNRE!

    You are right. Mom and pop stores and "general niches" are not suited to all for this method. In fact, I HIGHLY advise against it. Think of it this way, should you really have to "sell" a business on you "handing them new clients/customers??"

    Doesn't make sense right. I mean for SEO and such you have to sell them on the "end result" which takes time. That end result being more business through ranking, clicks and eventually leads that they can convert.

    With Lead Gen, you already have the Golden Egg. Any business owner or sales agent that won't pay for a good lead is:

    a. Stupid
    b. Doesn't know the value of their customer
    c. Doesn't know the acquisition cost for each new customer they get
    d. Doesn't know how to effectively convert that lead

    For this reason, you only want to work in "sales oriented" businesses that are driven by a sales force/reps/agents.

    Real estate, insurance, finance, etc are all great. Leads are worth a TON and always in HIGH demand.

    I know, I was a regional sales manager for a high competitive niche. We were paying $40.00 per lead, and $80.00 per lead for any that were "hot transferred" by a call center to us. We would buy these all day every day and couldn't get enough of them if we wanted to.

    Regards,
     
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  12. zenoGlitch

    zenoGlitch Executive VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Great write up, thanks for taking the time to put it all out there.
     
  13. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Thanks for the follow up.

    I'll be covering BOTH of those topics in depth in the coming posts.

    As a teaser, general methods for actual lead capture (depending on the niche and other factors) include lead capture forms and squeeze pages on the following types of web properties:

    - Geo targeted city directories (think Craigslist but for one city)
    - Regional and national directories
    - Geo targeted squeeze pages to specific cities
    - Scraping (CL, backpage, ebay classifieds, etc etc)
    - Starting a local businesses referral club for lead exchange (killer way to get highly targeted leads and provide EXTREME value to the businesses without having to pay a dime in ad costs)
    - Private media buys and banner space on niche sites
    - Targeted PPV/PPC
    - Solo ad buys
    - List swaps
    - Arbitrage (buy leads cheap on various platforms and resell at a higher rate....few tricks here as well).

    And a few other tricks up my sleeve...
     
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  14. sirgold

    sirgold Supreme Member

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    Very good post, also consider ppl don't like being told the truth about the broadening of the gap between the big guys and the small time kid trying to hustle his way thru making teh millionz... Ppl horribly NEED to believe the hype. Any hype, every hype, look around... It's full of ppl on forums around the web looking for ultimate magic bullet between lolcat videoz, the definitive guide, that fast button to push because they heard SOME ppl, entities, gurus made/make millions. Now that's certainly true, that SOME OTHER ppl make that, problem is it's not them. And probably never will be without a clear vision and a few solid ideas. And, in all honestly, I don't wanna whine because I don't feel so sorry if somebody else fails because he doesn't know what hard work and work ethics mean, but I foresee it's NOT getting any better with the younger generations considering all the scammers that are willing to trade a couple false leads out of some microworkers instead of carefully planning a long term plan, the thousands of $100/month journeys that I keep reading... But hey, maybe I'm just getting older... ;)
     
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  15. audioguy

    audioguy Power Member

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    Pardon me for the lack of experience regarding this field but how do let's say insurance leads become long term assets? I assume they are warm only when they're interested. Once the sale is closed, they no longer need another insurance, right?

    Unless I generate leads from certain demographics, like 24-34, male, certain bracket of income who happen to look for insurance. So when the sale is closed, I still can promote other stuff, like weight loss, perhaps to them. Am I missing something?

    With that, I agree, this is a HUGE topic. What you have here is just an outline. So give us strategies. Give us actionable info. As with what I've seen in other threads, that will get response.

    I personally hope you carry on. I am very interested and have lots of questions, if you don't mind.
     
  16. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I'll certainly carry on. Thank you for the advice and kind words.

    Let's address your point....

    1. Long term value:

    The lead itself is not necessarily a long term asset(though in some niches it can be). The long term asset is a REAL business that you can sell at a premium to a REAL company (brick and mortar) that WILL pay for the lead gen system (sites + auxillary sources). The premium you can charge for a "real" business is much more than the 8x rev average you get on flippa for a "weight loss" site, and is more versatile imo. I can keep the data, sell and resell it, sell the network, work out my own revshare deals, etc.

    The BIG money is in cutting out the middle man....i.e. get rid of the CPA, affiliate company, etc. and opening yourself up to a whole network of real world business professionals. It's the same reason why product creation vs. CPA offers is ideal.

    I'm not saying that's a bad route to go with the weight loss niche and list. In fact, if you have a responsive weight loss list that is well kept there is a lot of value there. The downside or rather difference is that you are limited to "online" promotions and using middle men such as CPA/affiliate companies who take their share, can drop offers, shave, etc (unless you have your own product...which would be preferred).

    Additionally, revenue sharing agreements in the "direct" sales approach provide the opportunity for long term residual income on top of payments for leads. And word of mouth in these niches travels FAST providing you with organic growth and minimal need for promotion in terms of new client acquisition.

    We are talking about high value niches here. Where businesses spend $xx-xxx for a real lead. We are also talking about "exit strategies" for you as a marketer where you can sell a small lead gen operation for $xxx,xxx one off to brokers who already know and trust you and the quality of your lead production.

    It's a personal preference. If you are building a list, you are building a future, regardless of whether you sell direct leads or keep them and market to them yourself (i.e. push weight loss products).
     
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  17. cash202

    cash202 Elite Member Premium Member

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    This is above average stuff, man. What did you expect? The majority of people here don't understand it.

    Thank for the insights. +Rep and subscribed. I love high level business stuff.
     
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  18. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Appreciate it man!

    Don't get me wrong, I love the next quick BH trick as much as the next guy.

    That said, it's just not sustainable. And given the increasingly complex and moderated nature of the net these days its getting harder and harder to "scrape" enough short term methods together to make it worth the time, stress and headache of not knowing if it will all be gone the next day when you wake up.

    This is a proven model, of which I've just scraped the surface in terms of this thread. I've been highly successful with it in the past but dipped out of the lead gen scene when I was promoted to regional sales manger (literally had ZERO time for any side stuff online). I've since left my corporate gig to do IM full time and loving every minute of it.

    While I have various companies and legit projects going on, lead gen has always been an exciting topic for me (coming from a sales background in business) and I'm jumping back into it and documenting some key points for my fellow BHW members that hopefully will help out as I progress.

    Again, thanks for the response and I'm glad you found some helpful insights in there.
     
  19. jmoney48

    jmoney48 Registered Member

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    Lead gen is definitely the way to go for the big bucks. I work for a company who sells direct marketing lists and we talk about how lead gen all the time. Some companies (ex: mortgage) are willing to pay $60+ a lead.

    Think about it. They don't have to do marketing or SEO. Who wouldn't want to have a lead who is already to buy at their finger tips. No marketing, no cold calling, no grunt work.
     
  20. kboxer7

    kboxer7 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Exactly.

    When I was a sales manager in the "for profit" education world we paid $40 for a normal lead, and $80 for a "hot transferred" lead from a call center who just verified their name and "degree of choice/field of study." We couldn't get enough of the darn leads at the time.

    Likewise, I was in charge of corporate B2B contract generation as well, and led the Midwest and East coast divisions in new business development. Those leads were worth who knows how much. I remember going onsite for Nestle and McDonalds, etc. Companies who had their own corporate universities onsite but wanted us to develop their programs and accredit them, etc.

    Think of 100+ workers times a $15,000 sales price with a net profit margin of roughly 40% (at the time). Think those leads are worth money? You bet. $600,000 to be exact : ) And that was just for one on-site location not a national or global plan.
     
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