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Sicko = Moore's best movie

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by therat, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. therat

    therat Regular Member

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    Really eye opening. As an admittedly arrogant American when it comes to our way of doing things I now have a great respect and appreciation for CA/UK/France's systems and in particular their health care system.

    It's a shame that recent changes being made at home won't affect our health care. I know that if I come down with any serious condition France will be my new home. It's truly amazing the amount of care shown to their citizens and even non-citizens.
     
  2. spaceinvader

    spaceinvader Regular Member

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    The UKs healthcare system is ok/bad depending on your postcode.. we call it the postcode lottery. You can be denied life saving drugs on the grounds that they cost too much and you dont live in the right city... yet the system is paid for by all of our taxes? Our system is slowly going the way of the American system. It is not as good as ppl think, i worked in helthcare for 10 years.
    The American system is shocking tho, and i would choose the UKs health service any day. :)
     
  3. helaughs

    helaughs Registered Member

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    Sicko is a horrible movie made by a man with a very very left wing agenda to push. It is funny how at the same time Michael Moore is filming on how great Cuba's healthcare system is Fidel Castor has to fly doctors in from Spain to save his life because Cuban doctors botched his surgery.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch and if you want an example of how America will run a nationalized health care system just take a look at VA hospitals. We have all heard the horror stories about mistakes made a VA medical facilities. If the government can't effectively care for the men and women that put their lives on the line for their country what makes you think the government would be able to do a better job taking care of you?

    Just a note: I am a disabled vet and I personally pay out of pocket for disability related medical expenses rather than go to the local VA hospital.
     
  4. snarf2000

    snarf2000 Newbie

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    Sicko is an extremely biased piece of propoganda that should never be called a documentary. It is full of so many holes, half truths and sloppy statistics it is hard to know where to start. This is not to say that we don't need some improvements and change in the US healthcare system, but nationalized healthcare like the UK and Canada have are far from a perfect solution.

    If you want equally crappy care for everyone, then nationalize it. But, we will pay more money for inferior care. If you want to focus on one statistic, look at how many patients from countries with nationalized healthcare come to the US each year for care. Compare this with how many people from the US go to countries with nationalized systems for care.
     
  5. purpledude

    purpledude Newbie

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    Helaughs is dead on about tradeoffs- and the biggest tradeoff in universal healthcare is freedom.

    Amazing how the very people who should feel the strongest about freedom (e.g., anyone on this forum) fall for this kind of claptrap.

    If the Federal Governement should run healthcare, why not everything else?

    Have you driven a French car? They aren't sold in the States anymore, but in the UK they occupy all of the top ten least reliable car slots. Why? Because the government supports and encourages their mediocrity.

    Do you think the U.S. governement would have come out with the Corvette? The Mustang? What if the government ran our car industry?

    Oh wait, we're about to find out.
     
  6. The Scarlet Pimp

    The Scarlet Pimp Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    don't take it too seriously. socialized medicine isn't as great as it was made out to be in
    that movie.
     
  7. xvoidx

    xvoidx Registered Member

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    Yeah, They have awesome health care systems. Like during the 2003 heat wave when the French saved over 14,000 people or how you don't have to wait hardly anytime for medical treatment like dialysis in the U.K. ......Oh wait.....



    inb4americasucks
     
  8. stunna

    stunna Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Michael Moore is terrible. He is nothing more than an entertainer with an agenda.

    Anyone who is interested in real sociology should consider reading the works of a less biased individual such as Malcolm Gladwell.

    It is impossible to approach sociological issues without a bias because we all have one innately, but Michael Moore just takes it too far.

    Is it really plausible that a guy who can't even manage his own health/body weight is in an excellent position to provide insightful commentary regarding a country-wide healthcare system?

    Nope.
     
  9. miker99

    miker99 Registered Member

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    Canada's health care isn't as good as it's portrayed in the movie.

    There can be long waiting lists for many types of procedures.
     
  10. photoads

    photoads Regular Member

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    I enjoyed the movie but agree the movie was slightly biased to make the health care companies look bad. But when someones dying they worry about the insurance papers before treating a baby or person is simply barbaric. And how they slated the universal healthcare as not working is BS.

    I left the UK 4 years ago for Canada, it's not until you are away from something that you realise just how good it was. The Canadian system is great but the UK NHS was awesome, granted there are issues but it provides a safety net. There is a 2 tier system in the UK where you can also have private healthcare to get treated sooner. Not so in Canada, although people will go south for treatment in the US.

    The UK's NHS is open to abuse though - they have NHS tourists who fly in from overseas, go to the nearest hospital for emergency treatment. No questions asked! a simple id card system like they have here in Canada would save them hundreds of millions ...
     
  11. Randy569

    Randy569 Junior Member

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    Moore is nothing more than a vocal liberal with an anti-America agenda. He is part of the "Blame America First" crowd that fails to remember that, if he had made this movie in his beloved Cuba, and blamed the Cuban government for some crisis, that he would have faced the firing squad.

    He is nothing more than a rabble-rouser, stirring up the shit just to keep his name in the headlines. He is about as meaningful as dogshit on your shoe.
     
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  12. rcom

    rcom BANNED BANNED

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    Yeah this movie impressed me. However, I just can't see me leaving sunny Los Angeles any time soon. Beaches and babes my friends. ;)
     
  13. therat

    therat Regular Member

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    I'm not a fan of Moore and I am quite conservative on most issues. Of course he has an agenda but the facts about socialized vs private health care is the issue.

    A health care system that is made For Profit controlled by the insurers and drug companies is not in the best interest of the anybody. Even if the gov't screws up some things, the fact is you have 100's of Billions that instead of going to the corporate bottom lines will be used on treatments.

    I'm not for a completely socialized system but a little mix of both. One that affords people insurance who wouldn't normally qualify and forgives debts due to illness that bankrupts many American families.

    Btw, the slippery slope to socialism argument is a ridiculous one IMO.
     
  14. Randy569

    Randy569 Junior Member

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    The best argument I can think of is this:

    Name for me one program that the U.S. Government has gotten involved in, where there has been an actual improvement in either cost-efficiency, productivity, or ease of use by the person that it was intended to help.

    Social Security?

    Medicare/Medicaid?

    Education?

    Anything?
     
  15. leonidt

    leonidt Regular Member

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    Michael Moore is a shitbag. And social health care is not as good as people make it out to be. In my opinion it's alright, but everything has a positive and a negative to it. There is no perfect system.

    Also, Cuba fails as a country. I fly through Havana all the time, in fact, I have a ticket right now for May 13th. It's a great place to fly in and party, but if I had to live there, I'd probably eat a bullet. Some of you guys already know I'm not a fan of the US, but anyone who says Cuba is better in any way is a fucking idiot.
     
  16. soctal

    soctal Regular Member

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    this question doesnt make any sense. the first three exist as govt programs that didnt really have a precedence. name me a single govt on the planet of any consequence that doesnt have an educational system. maybe if we do away with national programs like roads, scientic projects, waterways and of course armies and make them all private you will be satisfied with that, but in little time, but in little time, we wont have nations, just highly class stratified warlord fiefdoms. such places will have the highest quality care and advances, but only the rich can afford them. i dont have the numbers, but its not news that a significant number of the bankruptcies/foreclosures were due to medical bills.


     
  17. leonidt

    leonidt Regular Member

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    The significant number of bankruptcies happened because banks gave out loans that people could not afford. Medical bills are part of standard cost of living. That's like saying bankruptcies happened because people had to buy food.
     
  18. callmelucid

    callmelucid Regular Member

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    michael moore is a brilliant movie maker but a complete wacko in the brain. i'm just a "documentary" fan so i had to see his blatant ultra leftist propoganda. very entertaining as a movie though but i thought bowling for columbine was one of his best films
     
  19. Randy569

    Randy569 Junior Member

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    My question makes perfect sense if you take it in context.

    My question is simply this:

    Name me one program that the government either controls, or has taken control of, that functions in either a cost-efficient, productive, or user-friendly manner.

    I'll save you the trouble of answering. There isn't one. And there will never be one, because the bureaucracy will never allow it to happen. To admit that their way is not the best way is to relinquish control, and that will never happen as long as entrenched political hacks are running the show.

    I'm not saying to do away with government. What I am saying is let the government fund the projects, with OUR tax dollars, but put people in control of the projects that can run them in a cost-effective, productive, and user-friendly manner. In short, skilled professionals who know what they are doing, not political cronies who butt-smooched or bought their way to their position of power.

    I'm sorry, but the less control of my life the bureaucrats have, the better my life will be. And I sure as hell do NOT want some political hack telling me where and when I can see a doctor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2009
  20. AWG123

    AWG123 Newbie

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    Are there any French members here. I am curious if the Healthcare in France is good. I have English and Canadian Friends, they are mostly negative toward their healthcare system.