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Should kids be allowed to defend against bullies?

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by BigMACK, Jan 29, 2010.

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Should kids be allowed to defend themselves against school bullies?

Poll closed Feb 3, 2010.
  1. Yes and without being suspended.

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  2. No, and they should be suspended.

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  3. Yes, but be suspended for one day and not expelled.

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  4. No and be suspended up to 3 times and then expelled.

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  1. BigMACK

    BigMACK Junior Member

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    Ok, so my 10 year old son was standing in the cafeteria line for breakfast at school when this other kid hit him in the back of the head for no particular reason (And yes, that is what happened so says the teachers that saw the fight). My son turns around and pushes the kid to the floor. Then, another kid comes charging my son and pushes him back.

    All 3 boys were sent to the office and all 3 were suspended for fighting. The teacher says that my son did not start the fight, but he did try to defend himself. I asked the VP of the school, "IF my son didn't start the fight and was only defending himself, then why did you suspend him?". She told me that the reason is that no fighting is tolerated in the school no matter if they are the perp or the victim. She said that my son should have walked to a teacher and told them what happened.

    In my opinion, if my kid had not fought back, then those boys would have not left him alone in the future. (At least that is how it was when I was in school). My kid would be marked as a pussy and he would get a bad rep from it.

    Are we supposed to allow our children to be hit, punched, pushed or shoved at school without defending themselves in fear of being suspended or expelled? What kind of lesson is that teaching the bullies? What kind of lesson is that teaching the victims? The kind of lesson it taught my son was to fear being suspended and not being able to fight back when another kid hits him. (Which, as I am sure most of you can relate to, is a very frustrating feeling) It taught the bully that he is not the only one that will get in trouble if he starts a fight.

    I think that the victims should be allowed to fight back and teach the bullies a lesson. Not only that, the bullies should then be suspended by the school and the victim allowed to stay in school. This will potentially alleviate potential problems in the future from that bully because he/she will then fear the kid fighting them back and also being expelled.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. NX_NULL

    NX_NULL Regular Member Premium Member

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    I know it might sounds stupid
    but is it possible to call police instead of walking to a teacher and telling him what happened
     
  3. unknwn

    unknwn BANNED BANNED

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    I think everyone has the right to defend him/herself and that this is just a fucked up idea to teach kids a moral. When i was a youngster it was all about when you get hit hit back. If you didn't your life was over, simple as that. Only the teachers reply'ed the same exact way.

    They honestly don't get it, they are to afraid about the rep of the school. This way you will create children that are gonna be run over all of there life. At some point there aren't any teachers anymore after you leave school. So let your son hit back and tell him that he did a good job at standing up for himself. That might be the best lesson he learns in his life and reward him for it. Seriously fuck school rules they are BS.

    When i was young i kicked a bully so hard blood came out of his mouth, you know why cause he had bullied me for 2 months and at one point i went berserk. Guess who they blamed and got kicked from school. Yep me that is correct, cause they didn't see his actions only mine. I all way's did stuff in front of peoples faces and not behind there backs. So i all way's gotten the blame. So seriously reward him for standing up for himself. And for those teachers go fuck yourself just keep it to teaching and don't act like cops. Cause you ain't.
     
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  4. The Scarlet Pimp

    The Scarlet Pimp Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    kinda reminds me of columbine, the school dons did zip so the boys took (drastic) action and now a dozen people have lost their lives. and suddenly the schools don't 'allow' fights.

    i am *truly* looking forward to the end of this current age of running away... for real!
    and it's definitely coming... slowly but surely.
     
  5. mightybh

    mightybh Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    So is this an American system when kids get suspended and expelled as a punishment? As in kicked out from school? Do they miss lessons and then have to catch up? I think it's pretty stupid. I was fighting back at school myself and they used to speak to me, make me stay for extra lessons and punish me by taking back various privileges. Fighting was not tolerated either but it had no effect on my academic progress so I did not really care.
     
  6. unknwn

    unknwn BANNED BANNED

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    Thats the system in every country i'm afraid.
     
  7. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

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    It's an old saying but this illustrates the further pussification of the US. It fucking galls me. One thing happens somewhere and the entire country jumps through hoops to make sure no one's feelings are hurt. You cannot have "zero tolerance" because by definition, it removes any thought or intellectual discourse.

    So what you have is that if a 7 year old boy who receives a swiss army knife for his birthday, brings that to school, he is suspended. Or as in your son's case, he tries to defend himself against a bully and he is given the same punishment as the bully. Fucking amazing.

    Your son did the right thing. Actually, what he should have done is bash the little fucker over his head with his lunch tray.

    Based on recent incidences (such as the boy with the camping knife), a simple visit to an attorney who then confronts the school district with legal action would probably end this in your favor.
     
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  8. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

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    It's not stupid but it is incredibly naive. To expect a school age child to call the police because he was pushed is ludicrous. Two things would happen:

    1 - The police would never show up (nor should they bother IMO)
    2 - The child would face further ridicule from his peers.
     
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  9. unknwn

    unknwn BANNED BANNED

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    I so don't wanna be in America.
     
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  10. BigMACK

    BigMACK Junior Member

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    I am happy that I am not the only one that feels this way. And localhero, I agree with you about baching the kid over the head with a luch tray, that is how I would have handled it when I was a student. But I have to keep it civil for my son's sake ;).

    I am trying to teach him that the best way to handle yourself is to be able to speak your way out of some things. But, at the same time, some things are not able to be avoided, thus making you face a hard decision like this one. I also have taught him not to allow other people to put their hands on him. The reason I teach this to him is because I know how it is in school. When boys fight and one of them do not fight back, the the one that didn't fight back is marked as being a wimp and then everyone picks on him forever. I can't see myself allowing that the happen to my child. I believe I am going to attend the next public school board hearing in my county to see if I can be heard. Maybe even get some other parents on-board.
     
  11. johntan09

    johntan09 BANNED BANNED

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    you got to be kiddingz..of course man..lolz..
     
  12. samlexton

    samlexton Newbie

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    There's a difference between being bullied and feeling threatened.
    i got bullied by someone i knew i could beat with one hand tied behind my back........but never retaliated because i did'nt feel threatened by him........
     
  13. richjerkoff

    richjerkoff Junior Member

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    When I was about 9 or 10 I had three kids try to bully me in school for beating up their mate a few weeks earlier. The one I beat up earlier was also trying to bully me but I took him on as I hate backing down.

    So, when his three mates thought they could bully me too, I did the same to their leader, to the delight of the girls looking on. Of course I got pulled up for it and went to see the head teacher but he let me off when he heard what happened.

    Never had a problem with them again either.
     
  14. Sneeks

    Sneeks Junior Member

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    my dad took me out for ice cream when I won the fight I defended myself in. still got suspendid but it wasnt that bad
     
  15. BigMACK

    BigMACK Junior Member

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    That's called common since applies to your situation. The common since my son used to instinctively shove that kid for hitting him applies to his situation as well. Sadly this wasn't a threat, the guy hit my son in the back of his head. So it was no longer a threatening feeling, it then became a feeling of being violated. That always results in some sort of defence.
     
  16. moronic_kaos

    moronic_kaos Regular Member

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    Well, if you live in America, then you know exactly why they did this. America has the biggest problems with people suing others for the most ridiculous things (I fell on some ice in the parking lot, etc) and if the school doesn't go above and beyond the punishments necessary to prevent injury to the kids, then they are likely to be in trouble at some point.

    This doesn't mean its right to punish someone for defending themselves, as they should be allowed to without something like a suspension on their record. It's just what we have to deal with because of the stupidity of others.
     
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  17. SebastianJu

    SebastianJu Power Member

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    I would say the thought behind is simply that violence results in violence again. So its a good reason I think. I think americans should know how violence in reality works. One gang kills one guy, the other gang kills another one and so on.
    Thats not the way. If you are lucky it stops but if not it results in more violence.

    So I think its ok what happened.
     
  18. WizGizmo

    WizGizmo Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    This thread reminds me of a time when I was in 4th grade. There was a kid named Henry Jackson who was about 6 inches taller than me and about a year older. He used to chase me home from school almost every day for a year. The reason he chased me is because he knew I was afraid of him. Classic bully case.

    Well, one day he was chasing me home and as I was running up to the front door of my house, suddenly the door opened and standing there was my father. He had come home from work earlier than usual that day. When he saw what was happening, he stood in the way of the door and said, "Son . . . I want you to go back out there on the sidewalk where that kid is standing, and I want you to fight him with everything you've got. Otherwise, I am not going to let you come back into the house."

    Well, I went out there on the sidewalk and swung at him like a maniac . . . and as much as I would love to say that I won the fight, I didn't . . . . But I DID get several good punches in on him and managed to do enough damage so that he never chased me home from school again. When I walked back to the doorway of the house where my father was standing, he put his arm around me and said, "That's my boy! . . . I am proud of you."

    I learned a lesson in self-respect that day. And thanks to my father's tough love, I never backed down from another man from then on.

    Sure do miss my dad . . . He was a hell of a guy and taught me many life lessons that you don't get in any book.

    "Wiz"
     
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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  19. unknwn

    unknwn BANNED BANNED

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    Give me the school details i wanna troll them.
     
  20. nicho

    nicho Regular Member

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    Hi BigMack, funny you should bring up this point, l can't stand bullies of any type , l don't think it's any different in america than here in the UK.

    My son a few years ago was being bullied, not by his peers but by the headmaster and some of the teachers.....let me explain.

    Daniel my son at 14 was an all star sportsman, he represented the school at baskerball, soccer and athletics.....he was obviously a popular boy and a confident one so we never heard about him being bullied until we were requested to go into the school re his behaviour.

    Whilst in the meeting the headmaster spoke down to my wife and me like schoolkids and accused daniel of criminal damage to a car that was parked outside the school............eventually l lost it and told him it was a load of crap and the headmaster just walked out, wouldn't talk to us any further.

    The next week he suspended daniel but still wanted hime to play soccer in the finals and also basketball as the school had reached the national championship.......

    Bottom line is that we pulled him out of all school activities including the sports.

    Now the moral of this story is that you can be bullied by all linds of people and society l don't know where it starts or ends oly that you have to defend your corner if you know that your right regardless of what happens afterwards.