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Shall I give up an go home? check my stats

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by DebbieSprules, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. DebbieSprules

    DebbieSprules Senior Member

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    My client came up with a unique cool dating idea.

    It is web 2.0 and nicely designed.

    This is the bit were I feel sick...

    Total visits in 9 months - 29,000 ( google 1800, the rest from twitter, 1800 from facebook)
    Total conversions to join the site free - 150
    Average time on the site - 3.30

    I have spent 20,000 developing this unique product and its clearly going over peoples heads. OR dating is ruined and far too competative, or just a naff industry to try.

    If you were me, would you?

    1/ White label the site, cut my losses and forget about it
    2/ Pay to have the site populated more with profiles then get affiliates to send me traffic and conversions
    3/ Pick something else and spend the time and effort on that.

    Two schools of thought...

    1./ Never give up
    2./ When somethings not working , know when to cut your looses.

    be gentle... happy to send you pm of the idea, but with these numbers would you not be pulling your hair out...

    There is so much apathy on the net and facebook has killed a lot of things. This has taught me that to succeed with a mainstream product you need.

    Huge budjets.
    An even more radical idea.


    I am trying not to cry, I feel so sick and this has kept me up all night. I cant keep throwing money as this as it may just be a shit idea or a way to competative market place.

    Wish I knew you before I started!
     
  2. Warbucks

    Warbucks Junior Member

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    My experience outside the blackhat world tells me that the difference between 2% conversion and 20% conversion could be as simple as the placement of text, or a single word in a title. Tweak your layout, try different combos of content placement, different text sizes, even different fonts.

    Try to run split tests somehow that will let you send half your traffic to existing, half to new, every time you see improvement make the new the official and tweak again.

    I mean, if you WANT to pack up and go home, that would be less competition for the rest of us :) But I'd bet you could increase real conversions with some base level split testing and design tweaks.
     
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  3. Gunner Steele

    Gunner Steele Newbie

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    Don't give up.

    Dating is quite competitive, but this is even more reason you should stick with it. It is a competitive space because it is quite lucrative.

    Look at plentyoffish.com.... it is my understanding that the creator of that site did it with a small budget and hard work.

    Without knowing more about the site, I would focus on:

    1. Traffic. Without people, profiles, and pics - a dating site is a ghost town...
    2. Optimization. Split test. Test. Split test. And test some more....

    Good luck!

    GS
     
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  4. DebbieSprules

    DebbieSprules Senior Member

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    Ok just got to be reeeeeeeeeeally careful that future money I spend on this is money well invested. I once had someone on here saying "it dont matter how great your idea is, dating sites are done and owned by the market leaders"

    I do have an advantage in that as it is public pages user generated I could code these page titles to all become a seperate serp, but its gettting people to get the idea...I will look at some split pages, and see what results come from them, atm i am designing a thick persons landing page which is even simpler.. my current bounce rate is 70%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but saying that .. a BHW expert did say my page was beautiful...

    Just need to know when to get out .

    With my other ideas. I can tell organically that the idea is good. A good idea sort of grows itself.... twitter facebook red tube etc.
     
  5. keinehabe

    keinehabe Supreme Member

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    total visits within 9 months 29K ? :O? dude let me to tell you just a thing ( small one maybe) -( I`m not even dreaming to be called by someone '' guru '' or stuff like this ) .... BUT YOUR TRAFFIC IS LOW , even on my adsense crap pages i`m getting more visits per month :) than you get into a complete active site :O? on june month I think I had around 40K hits ...

    Understand one thing my friend , you can reinvent the earth , you can redesign the moon , you can rewrite the history of the jazz , with NO traffic => NO VISITORS => NO profiles => NO REVENUE :) ... it's not important what niche you target , it's not important what you are trying to sell ... NO TRAFFIC is means NO SUCCESS :) ... honestly ... what do you expect to get from like 3200 visits per month ? it's like 100 visits per day :O? .... honestly what did you expect to get from this :O?

    Another strange thing ... did you by any chance to '' steal '' traffic from twiter :)? dude , twiter it's just another type of '' dating '' site peoples when socialize / speaking / sharing garbage's between them ... did you really hope to get even one single subscriber from here :)?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
  6. noob411

    noob411 Junior Member

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    I agree your traffic is extremely low, you can do better! don't quit!!! You are just starting! And 20k is way too much money ouch you made my tummy upset just thinking about that.
     
  7. Thrax

    Thrax Registered Member

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    Well, that's a whole lot to spend on that campaign with those results...What I'd do is find a way to drive targeted traffic whilst spending as little moola as possible...easier said than done..If it's a rally good product, try getting hold of some lists from similar products via email, and go revenue share with them...
     
  8. Micallef

    Micallef Supreme Member

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    I have to add that what Keinehabe is saying is not necessarily true. I make $1000 - $2000 a month from my affiliate software sales site. It gets 10-20 visits per day. Really high click through and conversion rates because I rank high for the right keywords.
     
  9. godmonkee

    godmonkee Regular Member

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    I really don't mean to sound harsh and I apologise if I do. Before you give up, you have to ask your self this question, do you feel you have exhausted every single possibility to make this site work? you have spent 20k and in my opinion thats is a lot to give up on. My advice is try option 2 and 3, take the site and give it to affiliates and let them promote it whilst paying to have it populated, whilst this is in the process create yourself a backup plan by taking option 3, if your site fails after taking option 2 then a least you have option 3 to fall back on, if you pay to have it promoted and you have affiliates promoting it and it becomes a huge success then you leave yourself to choices with option 3 keep it going and make yourself even more money from your new product you have created or sell the new site or whatever you have just created and carry on with your dating site. I really feel you shouldn't give up just yet you have invested a lot of money into this site to give up just yet.

    Best of luck on what you decide
    Godmonkee
     
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  10. graham23s

    graham23s BANNED BANNED

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    Hi Debbie,

    How was the 20k spent? was that on developing the site?

    cheers

    Graham
     
  11. loclhero

    loclhero Supreme Member

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    I'm trying to understand:

    Is this an adult dating site or a legitimate one like eharmony or match?

    Here is what I know about dating sites: If they are able to be raped for profit they will be and I've made a LOT of money doing just that. Dating sites, at least the adult variety are so f-king saturated and I would say that 2 or 3 get the lions share of traffic (FF network obviously being the big dawg).

    Having once had a totally whitehat site that cost me about what yours cost you, I cut my losses and use it now as an affiliate site. I totally understand the heart and soul that goes into something like that and the sadness or depression someone feels when they have to finally say, "Enough is enough".

    I guess the other question is, Can you afford to keep pumping money into it? Your traffic (sorry to put it this way) is really really bad. You've had 29,000 visits in 9 months which is basically 100 per day. Even if those are uniques, it's horrible.

    Bottom line, I say set a date and a goal where you will say that's it but you need to start making money to recoup your investment or move on.
     
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  12. DebbieSprules

    DebbieSprules Senior Member

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    Thanks for your warm advice. I genuinely feel sick..

    I have a BMW 5 series with a giant wrap on it which cost £2000
    I have spend about £12000 on the site build having had two developers drop me in it and breach contracts
    I have spend another approximate £6000 on the odd £300 here and there for marketing splash pages and everything.

    The only people I can really get advice from is you. 1. you know your shit 2. you have done it and do it.

    29,000 uniques is not bad as they were all free
    75,000 messages sent about the site
    number of people who seem to appreciate the "difference in the idea" - very few.

    The apathy kills me and I feel like vomiting telling you this. But there is also some really good tips here...

    1/ Godmonkey... = save wait change code , give it to affiate or dumb ass network. Keep the domain as "something for my business cv" see what happens.

    2/ Gunner = Yes good plan but if my bounce rate is 78% and people arent interested in online dating HOWEVER You spin it . I could be wasting time and heart ache...

    I didnt know anything before getting the google book and spending money with nichebot, and more from here. And I have learned a 20k plus lesson in life. I try not to think abotu the viable businesses i could have launched with that money, and it was my savings from accrue other busienss projects, now its gone.

    3/ LHero - Nearly cried reading your post. I have people with ebay shops telling me that my projects are a waste of time.. yeh fine and they make £2 a unit and have ahouse full of product...fuck that! So sorry you learned the hard way too.

    I just cannot beleive how stupid I could have been and thick, thinking I could come up with a better NORMAL dating model and have a chance. I did a business plan and I probably new nothing about anything. Match has 192000000 backlinks and sites dont grow organically.

    In business I have found that if an idea is good, well , people USED to email a mate and say "not bad idea" NOT ANY MORE unless its porn or radical.

    I did not estimate how FB has caused so much of the audiences time spend online to be taken up.

    On one day I spoke to a couple of mates on here who said "dating?" jeez man fuck that, people run a mile.

    Having followed human development for 10 years, i have a hard time giving up, millions of bsusinesses fail inches before success etc.

    My gut feeling says if an idea is good, it starts to work organically.

    To populate the site it will cost another £700
    To keep adding modules will cost maybe another £2000
    Promotion ? Got who knows... this is the kicker... good ideas should promote themselves ...this DOESNT.



    I now have another idea which is adult. and only ONE competitor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am going to throw it up for £200 and send traffic to it and see what the reaction was... imagine if I had done that in the first place and TESTED this idea before being a stubborn know it all idiot.

    I look at Samurai and I just look at the size and scope of online da ting and the only way my site is going to work is if someone gives me £100,000,000 to run tv for it.
     
  13. DebbieSprules

    DebbieSprules Senior Member

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    Another way to measure this could be by way of business algorythm

    for example

    Site a. Gets x number of traffic
    Site a. gets x percent return
    Site a. Can ask you guys what return shows a viable proposition or not.

    OR

    How much traffic would you send to a site before you thought. Sod that, thats clearly a shit idea.