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Service threads with money back guarantee forum section

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by dracony2, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. dracony2

    dracony2 Regular Member

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    I really like those services that guarantee SERP increase after a set time.
    I think those service providers deserve their services to be noticed.
    How about creating a separate section that lists only threads with a 100% money back guarantee?

    a) this would guarantee that those looking for a bst service will find quality services that do work
    b) this would encourage sellers to implement this to get into that section.

    Overall better for everyone.
     
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  2. reinie

    reinie Elite Member

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    Good idea in theory
    But no seo will be able to do that.

    How will you determine what is "significant" increase and for what niche?

    Unless its really blackhat in which case they prob wont offer a service.

    Money back guarantee for not delivering a seo product is more realistic.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  3. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    BHW could charge more to place a listing in that section, too, given that it would generate interest for the seller above and beyond regular (non-guaranteed) services.
     
  4. BLIXX

    BLIXX Regular Member

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    SEO services offer guarantees all day long, the world over. Development of such a section would simply force service providers to actually compose intensive and thorough ToS dealing with circumstances outside of their control, as well as the conditions under which they offer and honour a guarantee. It would also raise the quality bar for anyone wanting to post in the section, which they could, in turn, charge more for.

    The real question, I think, is whether or not there is an actual market on this forum for services such as these, that tend (relatively speaking) towards the 'pricier' end of things.
     
  5. dracony2

    dracony2 Regular Member

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    Well it mustnt offer a jump to page 1.
    We could make it like this: The service provider takes a look at the customers current rankings and niche, and only start working if he thinks the serps will improve. I think an acceptable SERP boost will be move up one position if the customers site is on page 1, 3 positions if its on page 2 etc

    I just think that this would filter out services that promise you the sky and while provide you with reports with web 2.0, article directories etc don't give you any boost. What can you do then? You can't appeal this service, as you did get what you payed for (the backlinks), but perhaps the service seller didn't create a good strategy to begin with, andall links that are in his report get ignored by google? Now those money back services would actually offer you something substantial.

    Because you want to pay for a SERP boost, you don't give a flying horse arse about the actual strategy. It is the same thing, as if I wanted to buy a birthday cake, went to the shop, and it said: 'cake with sugar, flour and cream,nuts,marmelade,fruits'. You buy it, take it home, and all your guests hate it. And that's what you actually cared about, you do care about ingredients, but it's the taste that matters.
     
  6. theonly1

    theonly1 BANNED BANNED

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    In most of the cases this can be applied only for the time frame of the particular service...
    For example:TAT 14 days ;if the seller fails to deliver within 15 or 16 days,then 100 % refund!
     
  7. dracony2

    dracony2 Regular Member

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    Well TAT refunds suck.
    1)The seller will usually say that "You'll get a refund if we don't deliver with no prior notice", so if they message you a day before delivery and tell you it'll be late then this doesnt apply
    2)Sellers usually try to appeal to you saying something bad happened, and they will deliver 2 days later
    3)If you piss off the seller by asking for the refund, he may SB blast your site just for lulz, it takes him only a few minutes to do this

    Do you know a single person that got a refund fom a service on BHW?
     
  8. Seadragon

    Seadragon Regular Member

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    The problem here is, one service cannot gaurentee you a SEO boost, you've got to look at what's happening right now. There are tonnes of factors that are on the basis of ranking a site. Just because one service doesn't work for one website, it might work for the other, thus why you can't always gaurentee serp movements.

    Google changes the serp positions, not the SEO providers.

    I've used one SEO provider twice but on different websites, one hit page one and the other didn't shift. Although it was the same package on both sites. Other factors come into play when ranking sites.

    What if you have no movements at all but the SEO provider has worked his ass off and then you want the money back? the person who would be losing out is the SEO provider, for his time and effort he's put into trying to get serp movements for the customers site.

    Yes some providers are utter crap, but for those who actually put effort in and then don't see much serp increases, it's not there fault. They can't make google change it's serp positions. Therefore no one can gaurentee anything, when it comes to SEO.

    it's a cat and mouse game....
     
  9. Kimi

    Kimi BANNED BANNED

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    ... most of the sellers don't know what a "guarantee" means. Is not accepted to state in sales page that your service gives rankings and what not but on the refund policy you give an insulting "100% guarantee" that a refund will be released only if the service is not delivered in the specified TAT.
     
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  10. dracony2

    dracony2 Regular Member

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    Again, this is why the seller will have an option to refuse to do his service if he believes he cannot guarantee results.
    That is why only professional players will post there services in those threads. And people will know what they payed for.
    So if I was the seller I would think that yes, I can guarantee that i will boost serps of a #89 site for 'cheap fantasy books', but would reject a 'maldives vacation' siteon position #3
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  11. danailo

    danailo Senior Member

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    The real problem is that a lot of people want SEO services but don't want to pay. Probably the reason is all the cheap workforce from poor countries last years. But people like you still don't get it. You get what you pay for. Good services I see here in BHW are around $200 for 10kw = $20 for keyword...


    I am in the business since 2004 and can tell you that the real price for 1 keyword is at least $50-70, I am talking about easy ones up to 100 000 exact matches. Service providers are forced to cut corners and the quality goes to the minimum.

    In this business if you want a 100% guarantee you need to pay more than $20 per keyword monthly. This is lunch money. No offense.






     
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    Last edited: Aug 30, 2012
  12. Windmill

    Windmill Supreme Member

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    I think these are terrible in many regards for the sellers... how can they promise rankings? I don't like doing that to sellers, who already work for amazing prices.

    Buyer beware; understand WHAT they are doing so you can access how that will work within your current SEO strategy before you begin.
     
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  13. Joker7

    Joker7 Regular Member

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    Would have worked years ago but nowadays even a solid service that works for most people can do nothing to some1 with bad on-site, bad link profile percentages, penalty, etc etc. Service providers shouldn't have to refund people in these situations so it wouldn't work.
     
  14. dracony2

    dracony2 Regular Member

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    Joker7, please read the part where I said that the service provider can deny service if he thinks that his service won't increase anything.
    Actually usually sites with low onpage SEO benefit the most from services, because they are usually burried deep in serps, and even a little juicy makes them go up
     
  15. meathead1234

    meathead1234 Moderator Staff Member Moderator Premium Member

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    Would never work, nor is it a good idea.

    In the site selling world, sellers who offer "guarantees" if a site doesn't make money rarely follow through with their promise and often just sell junk sites but use that as a sales tool. Decent sellers would never offer a guarantee.

    I'm sure it's the same for SEO providers. A decent SEO would have their time worth $xxx an hour, so they aren't going to work for free.

    There are too many variables that come into play.

    What if they take on your site in good faith and then you change the site structure or hosting goes down affecting the rankings? Would be a nightmare to aportion blame.

    Almost every service on BHW is something that needs to be used in conjuction with other services, too, so in that case, a money back guarantee will never work unless they don't deliver X links or whatever they offer.

    I have clients in other industries who offer guarantees where similar variables are in play but they charge a LOT of money. What they charge offsets their losses when something goes wrong with other clients.

    Same would happen in BST - people offering guarantees would have to charge more money to offset their refund losses. Eventually prices would be driven up and it would be bad for the overall dynamic of the marketplace.

    My 2 cents.
     
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  16. aldis

    aldis Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I totally understand OP's point of view, but in the practice this wouldn't work.

    edit: excellent explanation @meathead1234
     
  17. judson

    judson Power Member

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    The truth, that few people want to acknowledge, is that SEO is very much a 'Best Effort' business.

    The only thing any SEO person can say, is that "we've tried this, and we've seen it work. So, that's what we'll do for you"

    But even that is only true at some point in time. Google can ostensibly, and in fact do, change their algorithm, rendering what once worked totally useless. Worse, sometime what worked in one version of their algorithm is totally penalised in the next.
     
  18. JimmyWong

    JimmyWong Registered Member

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    There's too many uncontrolled variables to make such a thing possible. It is a poor idea and would be open to abuse.

    Google is onto traditional BlackHat methods and devaluing back links. Eventually the quality of a website will be the most important factor (I believe). So if your website is trash, no one can help you.

    You can modify a Vauxhall Corsa, but it'll never be a Ferrari. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  19. judson

    judson Power Member

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    Opened this thread a bit ago, and then posted. I just saw the response from Meathead.

    He is absolutely correct. One reason a *results* guarantee won't work, is that there are far too many moving parts. And just a tiny portion of that is in the hands of the contractor.

    ✫ There are things happening on your site (domain uptime, server speed on shared hosting etc), that you control, that can affect rankings.
    ✫ There's stuff that you are doing on your site ... overoptimsing, keyword stuffing, etc
    ✫ There's stuff that you could be doing to ire Google too ... clicking on your own ads, getting banned from adwords with dodgy coupons and so forth
    ✫ There's all the other linking stuff you are doing on external sites ... possibly leaving footprints
    ✫ There's all the stuff happening with all the other services you have bought concurrently, or in the past and are just being indexed by Google
    ✫ There's changes that Google is making to their algorithms
    ✫ There's stuff that a competitor or disgruntled employee might be doing to you try and screw your site
    ✫ Let's not forget that your competitors are just as busy as you trying to hold onto or improve their rankings.
    ✫ The stars might just be aligned the wrong way for you at that time.
    ✫ There's definitely a bunch of other stuff I've missed/left out.

    Finally, there's the work being done by the BST provider here.

    Anyone offering a guarantee when there are just so many variables outside their control needs to get their head examined. Right after the doctor finishes examining the head of anyone that believes such a guarantee.

    At best, all they can say is "I will build so many links, in such and such a way, and hopefully you will see a rankings boost".
     
  20. BigBuddy

    BigBuddy Account Under Review

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    I am providing refund (only 50%) in one of my service, but not in other seo services. The service which i provide refund considering it was good and pretty confident it will work.

    But sometimes it wont work the way we think and I issued refund too.

    The cases where I issued refund, onsite seo is good and no flaw in their system as far as i know. But Still, if there is no movements, it is not fair to blame the clients website, google algo changes etc etc.

    And also i can see some of the threads, whenever client serp increases, you will highlight those reviews and for negative reviews, Just saying " we cant guarantee serp increase except completion report".

    All service providers including myself working hard to boost the serps, but sometimes results will be slow, but few never understood and will request for refund, even though it was not mentioned.

    Luckily i have good clients who understood how seo works and will wait for the results.

    so, finally its a seller discretion to provide refunds.

    so, making separate section is not possible, as you will hardly find only 2 or 3 threads.Further in order to bear the loss of refund, price will be up in those threads.

    seo is still a guessing game, the service which works well for one may not work for others. Play with it, try to win and if you lost move on to other.
     
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