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[SEO] Two Sites from Page 2 to Page 1

Discussion in 'My Journey Discussions' started by SEOMadHatter, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Disclaimer: Nothing in this thread is promotional. I automate a lot of manual work but I'm not into selling to the IM niche. That said if you have a good automation idea (SEO only at the moment) drop me a message I'm happy to give you the source code or plug a front end control into my server if the idea is worth building.

    The Budget
    I actually found a $2400 unpaid balance in my Amazon account yesterday. Oops. So I sorted the payout for that and that'll be the budget for this project. A little arbitrary but it turned up on the day I started working on these sites so I'll go with it.

    The Sites

    Site 1: This is an interesting one. Weird niche with maybe 15-20k searches a month if I remember rightly. The cool bit is the design. Built entirely as a funnel instead of a normal "blog" which would probably rank easier but I think the conversion rate would be worth the potential hit in traffic.

    My custom keyword tool found the niche a few months ago. The competition is a joke forum posts and junk on the first page. I put together a site on a half decent domain and left it sitting. It's page 1 for a few longtails and generates hops to the affiliate link but page 2-3 for the main keywords. I haven't built a link to it for the niche but the domain itself has some generic anchors.

    Site 2: And to go on the opposite direction this is a much bigger affiliate site. Fairly standard build been sitting fairly dormant for about 2 years now I've never really worked on it. It makes about $100 a month mostly from long tails bouncing around the first page but the main keywords are mostly page 2 and some potential bigger keywords are further back.

    The Plan

    To be clear this isn't exactly a case study. They're in different niches, with different histories, different design structures and they'll be getting different types of links. But I am going to be testing a few things here.

    I don't normally like buying public link packs. For sites I intend to keep I'd not touch them. I like having control over my links but I see a lot of hubub over using crappy links to balance out the usual PBN links.

    Site 1 I'm not overly attached to. I think the niche has potential but if the domain got burned it wouldn't matter. In fact if I take a churn and burn strategy to smaller niches with this design it might mean a good ROI.

    I've ordered about $200 in link packages which will drip in over the next few weeks. A mix of public PBN posts (I don't care that they claim to be private they're being sold to the public which makes them, by definition, public) and some tiered links. The kind of packages which post some stuff to a 2.0 then nuke those with spammy links etc...

    I don't normally use those kinds of links any more. Even on tier 2 properties. But as a test if it ranks in this small niche and lasts long enough it would be easy to scale into other niches.

    So that'll be a few weeks to show any changes most likely. I might order another package for it and *maybe* the site design will change if the links don't make a difference.

    Site 2 is a different story. It's a bigger site, with a domain I like in an actual competitive niche. If it took top spots for the main keywords it would be well into three figure days even as an affiliate site. I've tried just having better content than my competitors but we all know how that story goes outside of the Moz blog.

    So I'll not exactly be playing by the rules but I will be behaving a little more with it. It has a couple of links already. Just junk ones mostly picked up over time some some people linking to it in forum posts etc... not exactly authority links but not the worst base.

    The work on this site is going to be a lot more involved for the next few weeks.

    I've a few domains sitting about and I'll be setting up a number of others. Aiming for a PBN of about 20 domains to start with. The niche makes money so it'll still be a decent ROI if I have to go bigger. Goal is to have them decent looking and niche orientated. I know the niche well enough but I might outsource some of the content here.

    I just finished up a script to automate a part of link building which I usually ignore because it takes a lot of manual work. That said when it works it means potentially good, very legit looking links. It's a complete numbers game but with a few thousand proxies and about a hundred threads running on the server I'll see how it goes.

    I need something to balance out these heavier links. I want to balance out the anchor and homepage link density without going too overboard and sticking out like obvious spam.

    First step here is building some quality third party properties. Decent enough that they'll carry some weight and be worth writing (or outsourcing) content for. Not so decent that I don't mind using them for deep linking. I've had some good success with this in the past and I'm retooling some existing pages from dead projects over the next couple of days. After that I'll be working on a script to automate a lot of the work. It might take a couple of days to put together but it'll be worth it since I tend to replicate this work in most link building campaigns.

    So for quality and control we're looking good so far for site 2. But I suspect I'll still need to water down those links a little more. I'm looking at using GSA in moderation. Not going completely nuts with a bunch of spam but just a small mix of the different sources a few dozen profiles and directories and maybe a couple of guestbooks and wikis.

    The other thing I'm really keen to test is doing something I haven't ever done before. Building links to the second tiers. So the decent third party properties and PBN sites I use I tend to throw them up and the only changes I make are onsite. But in theory if I use anchors to focus these properties more specifically on the niche it might help.

    I'm not a fan of manual work however. So the current plan is to get the PBN and properties setup (a chunk of which should be done over the next week or so but I'll spread out the rest) and then start running relatively small GSA campaigns pointed at them. Still not going for obviously spun articles or anything which screams 100% SEO spam but something like a profile which could arguably be made by the owner of that site.

    So that's the plan and my thought process behind it. Follow along if you're interested. Feel free to ask questions. I have some links to build and some code to write so it'll likely be a few days before anything changes.
     
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  2. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    Good luck.
     
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  3. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Junior Member

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    Goodluck I will follow along.
     
  4. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Scrolling through the market a lot of these services are full of posts saying they got from page 2-3 to page 1 with fairly spammy links. They're either full of promotional nonsense or I should be looking at the churn and burn approach more closely.

    Finished one script to help get actual legit links. Good start so far picked up a nice little niche link which would fly through a manual inspection so I'll tidy that script up a bit and leave it running through the week. Starting work on another to stack up these 301 shortener links with a bit of an interesting twist. I'm still dubious about these types of links but I'm going to start running it on some parasite properties that I don't really care about. If they improve great, if not it was automated anyway.

    Spent most of new years eve and day either training or out on the rock climbing. So I'm going to get a few hours sleep and then get cracking on. Once that script is done I'll set up one or two of the new PBN sites as well I'd like to make some decent quality ones specific for this niche.
     
  5. moneyflower

    moneyflower Junior Member

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    Do you have the intention of sharing your script to the public later in future? or perhaps share it with someone else so as to test its efficacy? Btw, I have a journey thread too, Pls take a look and give me some advice https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/the-making-of-a-500-month-adsense-niche-blog.903106/
     
  6. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    I don't really need third party testers for an in-house tool and I'd really just be increasing my own competition for some of them so probably not. Let's say if these two sites stay in the top 3 I'll make a decent GUI and post something up. Had a look at your thread not really much I can add man. If you've ranked in that niche before with spammy links you'll know the drill. Churn and burn. Or try a tidier link profile and hope Google doesn't look too closely.

    Finished the 301 script last night. Noticed immediately afterwards that there's already tools which do it could of saved myself a couple of hours. Oh well. At least I did include something the others don't but I'm not overly convinced these 301's will do much. I'm going to need to spam them with GSA just to get indexed which is the part I don't like but I'll keep it to just tiers of shorteners and then some bookmarks and profiles to those outer tier shorteners maybe.

    Started work on the PBN last night. Going to drip in a few links over the next week or two and I'll start picking up more domains as those ones get indexed. Other than that I have a pretty big system to build for decent tier 1 links which might take a few nights I think I have the API work done somewhere but I have to hook up about a dozen new scrapers.

    I'll also need to sit down and go through GSA options. Doesn't look overly complicated but I'll need to decide what level of spam I can bring myself to use on the tier 1 links.
     
  7. BlackBDO

    BlackBDO Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Sounds like you know what you are doing, really curious of the result, will follow this ;)
    Cheers!
     
  8. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Honestly some of this is like learning to ride a bike for me again. Since the days of BMR and SE Nuke being popular I've not done much more link building than PBN's and outreach stuff. But the BHW marketplace is full of the spammier tier stuff.

    I'm a cynic though I wish I knew how effective it really was before I put too much development time into it. I struggle to understand why Google would put any weight in a bunch of profile links at this point. And most of these "social network" and bookmarking sites are never used by users any more. 99% the posts there have to be SEO bots.
     
  9. Shree

    Shree Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Sure looks good. Will be following this. Good luck :)
     
  10. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Doing a little house cleaning and seeing what domains I have spare for this project. So far they're looking good. Third party metrics trust citation is at least 25 usually breaking 30+ the minimum referring subnets on my filters was around 150 and looks like they're all still pretty far over that.

    Should have about 10 PBN domains I can setup for site 2. I'll have to start looking for more if I want to get up to 20 but they're of to a good start.

    I can't bring myself to believe the marketplace threads at the moment. There's no chance tiering all those spammy links is still worth anything. Google could wipe out half the market by ignoring links which wouldn't matter otherwise. Bookmarks and "social micro blogs" with no real users, directories with nothing but marketers, guestbooks and blog comments have been spammed to death. Directories are pretty much dead. Who links to an important site from a profile page? They could ignore the lot which would do nothing but reduce spam. A web 2.0 makes sense to me but without decent links it won't carry enough weight to matter for much.

    You know what I don't see on all these marketplace threads? Actual proof. If I can rank in a low to medium competitive niche for $100 in spam then I'd rank something reasonably easy (we're talking fairly low comp not 10 word longtaisl) using the same method I was selling. Sure it'd get taken out by a manual review and bashed to hell with spam links but it's hard to imagine the orders wouldn't make it worthwhile.

    I'm looking for some actual case studies but I don't think I'm going to bother much with GSA at the moment. It doesn't make sense to me that just because we spam them on tiered links it works any more than it would otherwise. I'll focus on decent tier 1 links and if the packages I bought for site 1 actually rank I'll consider it a happy surprise. And I'll still attribute 90% of it to the private blog network links portion of the package.
     
  11. SEO FOX

    SEO FOX Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good luck man
     
  12. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Productive evening.

    Decided I'd do bi-weekly ranking/earning updates for this project so I set up rank and earning tracking both site site 1 and 2. I'll do one mid month and another at the end.
    I will say site 2 made $20 yesterday from the longtail traffic it brought in. A tiny fraction of what this niche could do but not a bad way to start the project.
    First PBN link up and more to follow this week.
    Built a couple of mediocre t1 links to spread out the anchor and deep linking diversity before the PBN hits.
    Requested some review copies from a vendor for site 2 so I can put together some decent YouTube videos for the niche.

    I put together a massive content update for site 2. I moved some things around added plenty of media and beefed up the word count by about 10-15k words. 5k total on the main landing page now and nothing below 2-3k on the main sub pages. Going to leave that sitting a while and if I start to see some positive movement in the serps I'll either outsource or write a bunch more for other longtails. I know the niche and while it isn't exactly interesting its not hard to write for.

    Looking at the rankings for site 2 I'm actually a little concerned about it. The domain has been sitting around for a while and while it's picking up longtail traffic and ranking on page 2/bottom page 1 for smaller volume variations it's not even in the top 100 for the big main keywords which I would normally expect even without links.

    I'm going to finish the 10 PBN links, build up some more tier 1 links and I'll reassess after that.

    /Update: Even the smaller variations makes money in this niche if it hit top spot for that alone I'd be happy.

    But the real reason for the update is that Google has just now indexed one of the new 2k word articles on page 6 for the main keyword. Still nowhere for the plural variation of that keyword which I find weird but I'll leave it do it its own thing for now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  13. Arfil2134345

    Arfil2134345 Newbie

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    Can I have your Skype handle?
     
  14. greenwind

    greenwind Newbie

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    Interesting... i will follow this thread.
     
  15. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    If you're a person and not a crude spambot you can PM me here on the forum.

    Couldn't sleep so I added another 2000 words to site 2 and wrote the majority of the framework for the new backlink system. Didn't mean to do that. It's now the stupid hours of the morning and I was meant to have two training sessions tomorrow - not to mention the day job.

    But if I survive that without a coffee overdose I'm actually pretty excited about it. Working well for a first version I'll have to work on expanding it and it'll get faster as the database fills up but I think this should start turning up some more links pretty quickly.
     
  16. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Quick update now that I've finally had a decent nights sleep.

    I won't get too much into it because I don't want to derail the journal focusing on these two sites but the system I started the other night is showing some really good promise. A couple of decent T1 links already for site 2 and it'll get faster as the database fills up more. I'm seeing some really good potential to this automating most of the work I'd normally do. I need to work on expanding it some more and maybe hook it up into the paid Moz API. That is $250/month at entry level though which does mean about 10% of the projects budget a month. Might be worth it though. It's also a *lot* of data to process so I might have to up the hosting budget a bit in the near future.

    Trying to front load a lot of the development work so I can leave it running and see if it's worth taking forward so that's going to occupy a couple of days at least. It'll be providing the first tier of links for site 2 though I'm keeping it clear of anything like GSA. Site 1 is still getting the public blog links and spammy t1 followed by blasted t2 links. I'm actually not sure what the TAT for those packages was if I don't hear anything in the next couple of days I'll have to chase the vendor up.

    Other than that the plan for this evening:
    • Site 2 is getting organic social signals from the longtail traffic but I'm going to order a drip fed package for it. I don't think it matters as much for SEO as people claim (yes big sites have good social signals but that's because they have traffic - not the other way around) but it'll be good to coincide the signals with the new backlinks. It'll make for good social proof which I'm trying to use to help conversions.
    • Dropping another PBN link for site 2. Diluting the anchors with the other t1 links but I think I want the pbn anchors as the main ones I want to rank for.
    • Adding another 2k words to site 2. I don't want to keep writing content until I know this new strategy is going to work but I'm planning on adding a few more pages to the current structure and then I'll leave it be.

    I'll update rankings/earnings on the 15th I'm honestly not even looking myself at the moment I'd rather get my head down and get the work done.

    Current plan is about a dozen PBN links and two dozen other decent t1 links for site 2. I know I said 20 pbns but if the rankings don't budge with that lot I don't want to waste time writing the content. Once that's all done I'm just going to leave it sitting. Found two more sites with a similar setup to site 1. They're sitting page 2/3 without any kinds built so if I'm still waiting on rankings moving after this lot for site 2 is done I'll add them to the project and maybe try some different linking structures with them.
     
  17. LoftPower

    LoftPower Elite Member

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    Good luck to you OP! Will be sure to check in soon to see how you are doing.
     
  18. DEFINE

    DEFINE Regular Member

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    Good luck man, you seem like you really know what you are doing!
     
  19. SEOMadHatter

    SEOMadHatter Junior Member

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    Decided to sacrifice some short term income for better ranking for the main keywords. Site 2 had a lot of content before and the content was great in some places - while lacking in others. There was a few dozen articles but some of it was just simply low quality and a few pages targeting the same kind of keywords.

    No bueno.

    If this was a properly structured case study I wouldn't be touching the onsite SEO. To properly test I'd do one and then the other. But since this isn't exactly a case study I'm just cutting out a lot of these pages just now. Google is likely to flip over pages it was ranking for longtails either changing or being completely removed. But it should provide a clearer picture for Google to see what keywords I want ranking for what.

    So the current test is looking like:

    Site 1: Complete funnel design. Doesn't look like an average website at all which weakens the SEO but it's in a very low competition niche and it's being hit with public blog networks and tiered spam. Not doing anything more with it until the results for that come in.

    Site 2: Bigger authority site for a medium competition keyword. Bit of a history as an idle project but next to no links and some junk content. Content is being spruced up and a bunch of good quality tier 1 links pointed at it.

    Site 3: Had to add this one to the project. Didn't want to send too many links to site 2 after a lot of dormancy but it seemed a shame to waste them. Keyword is low comp somewhere around 5-10k monthly searches if I remember rightly. Couple of pages long, similar design to site 1 and it's currently page 2-4. I haven't built any links for it yet. No spammy packages for this one but no PBN links either. It'll get a few dozen links from time to time and I'll leave it sitting.

    I'm told SEO is slower than ever and I don't want to overreact and build too many links too soon. I'd rather spread it out over more projects but I'll leave it at these 3 for now until I start to see some movement or weeks pass and nothing moves - which is also possible.

    But let's try and avoid that.

    It was a busy at the day job today. I'm trying to get as much development for the back linking scripts done as I can at night so I can just leave it running so I got a chunk of stuff done last night and (after a nap and some coffee) I'll get back to it tonight.

    I want to get as much of this done by early next week as I can. Development is a time sink and while I'm working on that I'm not working on a site. It's been a lot of work and has taken up a lot of my week. On the plus side the finished parts can now run 24/7 and its produced a couple of decent links so far but I don't want to spend much time on it until I see some ranking updates. A couple more days on it then I'll just leave it running and see what moves.
     
  20. Google Prince

    Google Prince Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Interesting journey, it's always good to see other's that like to automate their work.
    What language are you coding your scripts in? Also what does your script do? I'm guessing it automates simple link building techniques like bookmarking, article directories etc.

    Good luck man, sounds like you have a great plan and will surely succeed!
    P.S I would recommend using shared seo tools so you don't have to pay over $300+ a month for ahref/moz subscriptions.