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SEO Advice from a "legendary expert", who's sites attract 70,000,000+ visitors a year

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by BreaknBrix, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. BreaknBrix

    BreaknBrix Power Member

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    *This post is divided into 2 parts. 1 part is an excerpt from a book I'm rereading for the second time. The 2nd half is a rant about the current state of BH, my own experiences with it, and what I plan on doing. It is a long read, but I believe it will help a lot of newbies and people who are stressed out* :)


    "No matter how many links and pages your new website has, it will not be able to rank on the first page for any competitive keyword for a couple of months. This core principle of Google optimization nearly put me out of business at one time. It just didn't make sense. I had great content and lots of links; why wasn't my website even in the top 100 results? The answer: because in the world of Google, you just have to wait. I picture an old farmer sitting on the back of a truck, chewing on a piece of grass, saying, "Life ain't fair, kid." It's just one of those rules.


    The Sandbox


    A mandatory ranking delay for new sites is the kind of SEO principle that doesn't make sense for most websites but benefits the entire ecosystem. Google instituted the sandbox, or the waiting period that all new websites must incur before they can rank properly, to keep the fly-by-night spammers out of the index. If you were doing a lot of Googling in the early 2000s, you might have noticed that there were many spammy sites in the search results.

    These sites were set up for the purpose of making money quickly and unethically, and then shutting their online doors after just a few weeks. Using link farms, or vast, interconnected networks of low-quality links, these sites were able to rise to the first page quickly due to Google's then-weaker algorithm.

    Many of them took a lot of money from people before Google discovered and banned them.

    Because of this group of spammers and scammers, we all have to suffer. As I was saying, the sandbox nearly broke me when I was first learning SEO. It took a full year and a half for my college consulting website to finally see the light of page one. If another three months had gone by without reward for my work, I would have run out of money. Thankfully for all of us, nowadays the sandbox period is shorter than it used to be.


    To make sure that you are adequately informed of what to expect when you have a new website, allow me to take you through the phases of aging a site on Google.


    0-2 months: The Period of Nothingness - Until your website is about two months hold, even the most awesome, link-juiced up site will be snubbed by Google like a smelly kid at the school dance. But this does not mean you should be inactive. This is exactly the time when you need to get busy building links. Google is watching every single link built in this period, seeing whether your site deserves to jump out of the sandbox, into power, within the next few months. If you do not build links in the first two months, your site will continue to be sandboxed until you do build links.

    2-4 months: Behold, a Brave New World - After your site has been around for a couple of months, it might peek into the top 100 results, but only if it has a couple of high TrustRank links. Typically, you are not going to see first page rankings for difficult keywords in this phase. Google basically has your site on probation.

    4-6 months: The Winds of Trust - If you were building links in a casual, nonaggressive way for the past few months, your site will now be able to rank for moderately competitive keywords. However, if your site has the same number and quality of links as another website that is two years older, it will rank below that other website.

    6-12 months: Dropping Anchor - Your site will now be able to rank for any keyword except the top 2% most coveted keywords out there. So, no mesothelioma, structured settlement, or airline tickets for you.... but yes to jewelry store Hollywood, customized silverware, and the like.

    1-2 years: Welcome to the Land of Trust - The door is now 90% open to you, and your site can rank for any keyword, providing you have spent the past year building high TrustRank links. Google will now view you the way society views a young, roguishly handsome doctor or lawyer - as impressive and capable of great feats but not as well respected as you will be later on in your career.

    2-4 years: A Seasoned Citizen - By now your site should have a number of old, trusted links and be a shining member of the community. Not only are you ranking well for long tail keywords and competitive keywords alike, but your site is a highly sough-after influencer - a site from which any other site would feel privileged to gain a link.

    4 years +: The Golden Years of Trust - These are the good times. Google now considers you a fully indoctrinated member of its kingdom. With a history of building links in a natural way and continuing to attract links on a regular basis, your site will rise in search results as you please. Your site joins the ranks of those "unbeatable" websites that are always on the first page for the most competitive keywords.

    The sandbox has been the subject of much pontification and misinformation. Simply put, if you focus on building links in a slow, natural way - say, getting three to five links per month - your site will come out of the sandbox and rank normally in sync with the preceding timeline.

    On the other hand, if you spend too much reading articles about the sandbox and getting yourself worked up about why Google isn't giving your site a fair shake, you will make less progress. In my opinion, the sandbox is a great time to work hard on your web design, create interesting pages for your site, attract links to those pages, and get your site ready to be seen by lots of people once it emerges. Think of it like a beauty pageant. Do your primping and preening and choosing your best outfits before you're called to walked out on stage. If you've prepared well enough, you will be a winner come time for the looks and talent competitions."

    Source: Outsmarting Google: SEO Secrets to Winning New Business by Evan Bailyn
    Copyright 2011


    -------


    Now, I know there are some blackhatters reading this who are like "wtf, this ain't Warrior Forum dude", or "this advice isn't relevant anymore". But I read this book back in 2011 which was the same year I got into SEO.

    Back then, I didn't know shit about "blackhat" SEO, or "blackhat" anything.

    What I did was follow this guys advice like it was the bible, and I ranked my first site ever #1 on Google after 8 months of work.
    Then I ranked my second website after 4 months of work.

    Then after a year or two, I found blackhatworld, started researching, getting greedy and more impatient. I began "cheating" the system, and in late 2012/early 2013 I was ranking sites #1 in less than 6 weeks 1 after another after another. Just by fluffing them out with lots of content and slamming them with anywhere between 25-150 PBN links. I started ranking YT videos #1 with GSA and was able to make a decent 6 figure a year income.

    HOWEVER, these past 2-3 months, things have changed a lot (for me). Lots of frustration, lots of failure, drop in earnings.... lots of confusion.... lots of chaos.

    And I've been blaming Google updates.... but I haven't been paying attention to the fact that my strategy has changed from 100% whitehat to about 80% blackhat and 20% whitehat.

    I recently saw a poll on BHW that showed that 70% of members on here are unable to rank a site in the top 10, for keywords with more than 10,000 SM since the payday update. But for all I know, if that poll was ran before the update, those numbers might have been exactly the same. And sure, polls aren't perfectly accurate. But I do think that poll was a good representation of the fact that the high majority of people on here just aren't ranking shit or making any money at all.

    I've also seen Netmoney1, one of the oldest, most respected members on BHW talk about his SEO strategy. The 1 thing I specifically remember him saying is that he just makes sites, backlinks them, and does not even focus or pay attention to how the sites are performing until they pass the 6 month stage. He basically has 0 expectations for the first 6 months.

    And this is a well respected member on a BLACKHAT forum.... who's advice seems to resonate more on the white side of things (disclaimer: I do not know Netmoney1 and that observation was based on just 1 of his posts).

    So WHAT am I trying to get at here?


    If you're a newb to seo, even an amateur, and you're not seeing the results you want, consider the following:


    1) The high majority of people on this forum aren't ranking in the top 10 for anything important, so you need to be *extremely careful* about the advice you listen to and implement on your own sites.

    2) I'm not a pro. But 1 thing I noticed is the more I veer into blackhat, even when I'm having success, it doesn't last forever. So I become desperate, impatient, and MORE LIKELY to keep applying the same strategies that have triggered the whole shitstorm in the first place.

    3) If you're a newb to SEO, (this can be debated till humans are extinct).... maybe it's not so wise to build most of your foundation and methodology around blackhat methods & techniques? Afterall, this is when the seeds are being planted. And maybe, since you plan on making most your money from Google..... maybe you should actually listen to and respect some of the things Google says? They're only worth $198 billion. :cool:

    Now, I'm NOT saying "go learn from a whitehat forum like WaFo" or anything like that.

    I'm just saying, I personally plan on launching a lot more whitehat sites. After 3 years of learning, listening and testing both whitehat and blackhat techniques. I've come to the realization that the majority of my income NEEDS to come from solid, whitehat sites.

    You often hear this cliche reverberated around blackhat forums, people who say "it doesn't matter if you do 100% whitehat SEO cause your sites can still get penalized". But I ALWAYS see this advice being perpetuated by BLACKHAT or GRAYHAT marketers. Who don't really seem to know what "whitehat" means in the first place. It's been said if you build 1 link on your own you're a "spammer". But does this mean you should throw the baby with the bathwater and go batshit crazy spamming all your sites? Of course not!

    I'm not trying to start a war between blackhat vs whitehat.

    All I'm saying, you newbs should never aspire to be a "diehard" blackhat marketer. Or even a diehard whitehat marketer.

    Find a center of ground. Make half your projects whitehat the other half blackhat. Do NOT get caught up in the net that I see so many newbies drowning in. Because like I said, I've been doing this shit for 3 years and still managed to slip into this net myself. I've found myself up to the neck in water these past few months. Unsure of what to do. Because I've been so brainwashed into "beating the system" and looking for the easy solution.

    Finally, I have to make this clear. I am NOT trying to turn BHW into a whitehat forum. I think Google is doing a good enough job on their own lol.

    What I do know. I'm caught in this "net" like a lot of people. And I know I'm not gonna get out of it by launching 20 more sites and spamming / pbn'n them to death so I can come back 3 months from now bitching about why my sites aren't ranking. I'll tell you how I'm gonna get out of this net. I'm going back to my foundation of whitehat. I will still try to rescue and maintain my blackhat sites. But using blackhat methods on whitehat sites that were performing fine..... just to make a few extra grand a month.... was the stupidest decision I ever made. Let me repeat. If you have a whitehat site that's bringing in say $1-$3k / month, DO NOT get greedy and start buying high PR links from a bunch of random providers. That is the stupidest shit you can possibly do. Save those types of links for your BH projects.

    For now on, I keep my white sites white and my black sites black. It's taken 3 years to learn this. But if more than 40% of my sites are black, then I know I'm doing something wrong. If more than 50% of my traffic is coming from SEO, then I know I'm doing something wrong. If I'm worrying about Google updates every other week, paranoid out of my mind, frustrated and pissed off..... then I know I'm doing something wrong.

    That's all I want to say. If 1 newbie can learn from my mistakes, if *I* can learn from my own mistakes, then this 2275 word post was worth it. :thumb:


    -BB
     
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  2. natnapil

    natnapil Newbie

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    I actually read the whole post. wow great.. Great read for newbs like me. thank you sir!
     
  3. DatMoney

    DatMoney Regular Member

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    wow that was a long but good read :)
     
  4. tony_d

    tony_d Elite Member

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    I appreciate your part of the post - however, the part you've quoted from the book is grossly inaccurate; ie "After your site has been around for a couple of months, it might peek into the top 100 results, but only if it has a couple of high TrustRank links. Typically, you are not going to see first page rankings for difficult keywords in this phase."
    That's just simply untrue.
     
  5. Commoner

    Commoner Power Member

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    Hi BB,

    After reading this whole chunk of *bitching* (excuse me), I must say you are up for the top 10 rankings, utterly amazed.

    Learnt from a BHW Top-notch member : Never give up, be the change you want to see in you right now!

    Commoner
     
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  6. nishantsarkar

    nishantsarkar Power Member

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    You are absolutely right ! Once i was aware i could rank sites in weeks with this ultra blackhat links.. i started giving less importance on natural and organic link-building ! Great post :)
     
  7. Debugger

    Debugger Junior Member

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    Just when i made new thread for help.You've come to rescue. :p Thanks man ...
     
  8. The Mentalist

    The Mentalist Power Member

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    While I don't agree with everything in this post about the sandbox process, there is one takeaway for everyone. It is a great idea to plan ahead. If you want to launch a niche site next year, spend a little time and set up the site and a few pages of content right away. Get your site indexed for a bit and later work on touching it up, building links, adding content, etc.

    I personally am doing this for a handful of sites I think I may want to launch in the upcoming 1-6 months. This way I don't have to wait for a site to really get going once I finally get time to spend working on it.
     
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  9. mahan_eesh

    mahan_eesh Regular Member

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    Made lot sense actually. Thanks for putting your voice out. Much needed one actually. A Blind following a blind is what I observed in most of newbies out of desperation for making quick buck. For long term success one needs to build rock solid foundation by investing their time and money in needed forms to find the difference. Comes only with experience.
     
  10. maecenas23

    maecenas23 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    BHW needs such posts. Beside the information which I highly appreciated even if I disagree on some parts, the need of strong voices explaining to people that:

    1. Patience
    2. High-quality content
    3. Knowledge

    are the way to go if you want to build a long-term business is obvious.

    You can have grey & blackhat projects to fund your your ideas/your tests and your drinking weekeds, but if you are serious in doing IM, don't try shortcuts.

    You can make huge earnings by staying in the black & grey area, but for that you need more knowledge than following the simple content & patience technique.
     
  11. accessted

    accessted Junior Member

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    Thank you for that. I am a newbie kind of. I have been searching high and low for the next shiny object and spent Lots of money lately. So This will make me reconsider what I am doing and step back to the basics. I am in it for the long haul..

    Great post
     
  12. Penumbra

    Penumbra Power Member

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    I stopped reading after i saw he ranks site for 6 months with bh.
     
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  13. aka sam

    aka sam Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    it was an awesome read. Thanks for the insight man.
     
  14. PHPInjected

    PHPInjected Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Great read. The majority of it (excluding your part) was subjective. It very much so depends on the quality of your links, your style of indexing links & your internal pages, how your site appears to Google (Ecommerce with products, a small business without ads, informational keywords, etc), and of course the age & consistency of link building & content posted.
     
  15. AsgharSK

    AsgharSK Regular Member

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    Nice that's Good For Read thanks :D
     
  16. antichrist

    antichrist Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    What is the issue here? Do you not think that is achievable?
     
  17. coolio10

    coolio10 Junior Member

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    I always try to get 1 golden nugget from each post I read, and this has a few.
    Thanks!
     
  18. MrBlackFin

    MrBlackFin Newbie

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    That's a really good post. Lots of gold nuggets for those will actually read it and use the advice.
     
  19. gundamwing

    gundamwing Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    theres no 100% sure about seo , it keep changing.. only google know
    and we only try and never give up .

    peace
     
  20. zenlagor

    zenlagor Regular Member

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    He's got a new book out anyone read it? (dec 2013)