1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Scientists to Unveil Proof of 'God Particle'

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by MiLiTARYiV, Jul 5, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MiLiTARYiV

    MiLiTARYiV Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    595
    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    The Office



    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/scientists-unveil-proof-god-particle-165431909.html

    [​IMG]





    This is as big as the, well, big bang theory: Scientists working at the world's largest atom smasher say they have enough evidence of the long-sought-after Higgs boson.

    To the layman, the Higgs boson is the "God particle" and a key puzzle piece in the scientific explanation of the origin of the universe. Physicists around the globe?and perhaps elsewhere, given the size of the universe?have invested billions of dollars in research and have been hunting for the Higgs boson for decades.
    Researchers at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (or CERN) are expected to announce Wednesday that they have proof of its existence, reports The Associated Press.
    The Higgs boson appeared 13.7 billion years ago in the chaos of the Big Bang and turned the flying debris into galaxies, stars and planets.
    Its formal discovery, according to a broad scientific consensus, would be the greatest advance in knowledge of the universe in decades and a key to confirming the standard model of physics that explains what gives mass to matter and, by extension, how the universe was formed, according to the AP.
    Rutgers University physicist Matt Strassler told Reuters that without the particle, "nothing like human beings, or the earth we live on, could exist."
    Physicist Joseph Lykken of the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory near Chicago explained in an interview with National Public Radio the difficulty for physicists in tracking down Higgs boson.
    "We think the Higgs boson is a manifestation of the fact that the universe is filled with a force that we haven't been able to detect yet that gives other particles mass," Lykken told NPR. "It exists for a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second, or something like that, and then falls apart into other particles."
    Thus, scientists are in a bit of a quagmire, according to the AP. While they appear to have enough evidence to report the existence of the "God particle," they still hedge on whether to report "a discovery." It's a fine line, indeed, but one that scientists will likely continue to debate.
    "I agree that any reasonable outside observer would say, 'It looks like a discovery,'" British theoretical physicist John Ellis, a professor at King's College London who has worked at CERN since the 1970s, told The Associated Press. "We've discovered something which is consistent with being a Higgs."
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. buttulgly

    buttulgly Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    40
    The more we learn from science, the less we need from religion.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Cnotey

    Cnotey Power Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    910
    Location:
    Seattle
    Home Page:
    Do not start this conversation here fucktard.

    As for the post, I follow quantum physics as my hobby. They have not found proof, they have found evidence. And in science, there is a HUUUUUUGE difference. It will be a long time before they call it "proof".
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  4. Chris22

    Chris22 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    When it's being mislabled as "the god particle", expect conversations like these to crop up.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  5. Typlo

    Typlo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    499
    Location:
    New York
    Home Page:
    What will this discovery actually allow us to do?

    I am talking about concrete improvements in the standard of living, not just confirming some theory or other that only bearded men with bushy eyebrows understand.
     
  6. bertbaby

    bertbaby Elite Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    1,496
    Occupation:
    Product marketing
    Location:
    USA
    Home Page:
    Who knows but you could have said that about Quantum Mechanics as well and now we are talking about building Qubit processors. Knowledge is a thirst that cannot be slaked!
     
  7. B. Friendly

    B. Friendly BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    480
    ugh. The text is all red, a violation of the laws of the space-time continuum !
     
  8. Cnotey

    Cnotey Power Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    910
    Location:
    Seattle
    Home Page:
    It will allow us to identify the particle that gives all other particles their mass. If we can find this particle, we can manipulate it. Thus, we can manipulate the mass of all particles. The possibilities are endless.
     
  9. NeoPat

    NeoPat Power Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    164
    God Particle? Again too much talk not enough action and an overly exaggerated title, what these people dont get is that none of this disproves God or the existence of a God or the truth of religion, i mean considering the 1 in hundred billions of quintillionth chance that we are alive today and the bang happened at exactly the right time and moment and the formula is so perfect ie the earths positioned just right not too far not too close, its just a miracle, the miracle of creation. And i think you have to be pretty ignorant to think that it all happened by chance, thats just like saying that 60 ur old tramp over there has got a 25yr old hot wife, you wouldnt believe that he had got a hot wife just by chance.
     
  10. B. Friendly

    B. Friendly BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    480
    UGH. THE TEXT IS ALL RED, A VIOLATION OF THE LAWS OF THE SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM !

    That was mean. Sounds like you need a nice cup of coffee. Maybe a Latte, or a straight shot of espresso. Drink coffee, it's makes you Be Friendly(er)!

    I heard an NPR show today talking about non-medicine "medicine" specifically the "curandera" tradition and what I noticed about fake & junk science types is that they supplant language and it's use for scientific knowledge. The words they use sound "right" but they don't mean anything. What's really going on is that fairly stupid people with strong communication skills have adopted the trappings of science and are distributing it without any of the requisite intellect necessary to understand it.

    And other stupid people hear the words, believe it's science and then repeat those words. And the 100,000 Gigawatt amplifier of mass media and internet, and bespectacled apes wearing lab coats and carrying clipboards get paid 6-figure income to repeat notions that they are completely incapable of understanding. Hence, the "God Particle"develops the exact same mass-appeal as Metallica or Justin Bieber.

    And there is some basis for the religion vs. intellectual understanding comment, but one must first understand that the "religion" that is being deprecated is the same false illusion as the "science" that is being promoted. Both illusions are false. The foundations of Western Science was given to us by the intellectual honesty of religion (instead of being bastardized into a means of controlling stupid people like other, still popular inferior religions), and the foundation of legitimate religion is scientific in nature: the shared pursuit of a single and immutable truth.

    Most popular anti-science and anti-religion sentiments are really collective expressions of the natural anxieties stupid people experience when confronted by a universe they cannot understand. It takes a lot of strength to admit the truth of not knowing something. Weak and stupid people choose instead to create false idols and then hate them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  11. BlueNebula

    BlueNebula Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    59
    Occupation:
    Experienced Marketer and Team Leader
    Location:
    Andromeda Galaxy
    Not sure if this guy is a bible banger or just a moron? You can follow quantum physics all you want and I will quote "follow" which I highly doubt you even can comprehend quantum physics when you use vocabulary like "fucktard".
     
  12. B. Friendly

    B. Friendly BANNED BANNED

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    388
    Likes Received:
    480
    HAH! Now you are just demonstrating how ignorant YOU are, you big dummy. You never heard of the top-secret research into the "fucktard particle":

    ryankinder.blogspot.com/2011/11/stupid-particle-and-how-it-works.html
     
  13. BlaqReaper

    BlaqReaper Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    207
    Not too long ago a someone came up with the idea that mass and energy were equivalent. A couple decades later this idea nearly destroyed the world.

    What effect will this have? No idea. But like they say "One small step for a man, one large leap for mankind" :).

    I respectively disagree. First imagine how big the universe is and how small the Earth is. Then take into consideration that the universe has been around for billions of years. With enough time and the size even the smallest chance of life is actually quite "common" taking into the scope of things.

    Here's a good thought experience. You shuffle a deck of cards. What are the odds of you getting every suit in order from 1 to Ace high? The answer is 1/(52!) or 1/(8.065x10^67). Impossible right? Well what are the odds of you having shuffled the exact order of cards that you ended up with? Also 1/(52!) or 1/(8.065x10^67). Sure there is no pattern that formed, but that order came from infinitesimal small odds and yet you still got it.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. ytcommenter

    ytcommenter Power Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    124
    My simple argument with all genius people how the very first thing was created? Because as per the science you need something to create something, so how very first one came into existence. Science must assume that there might be something earlier suppose c came from b then from where b came and b came from a then from where a came from? so w ithout invisible xyz thing science cannot prove itself too
     
  15. buttulgly

    buttulgly Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    40
    This is actually an interesting question and it is the underlying reason why the sciences are underfunded. It is also a question that most science students ask themselves, myself included.

    My first experience in asking this question was as an undergraduate chemistry student chatting to a post-doc researcher from Germany. He was studying chemical pathways (actually, the intermediates which lasted only a fraction of a second at 77K). I asked him why study that since it had no obvious real world application. His answer was plain and simple - because it exists. And if he can understand that process, it can lead to understanding of other processes.

    In short, answers create answers which create benefits. It is like making an investment not knowing what the return will be or even if or when it will.

    Lets look at a real world example. In 1917 Albert Einstein postulated the ground work for what would become the laser a few decades later. Specially, the wikipedia entry on it says:

    "In 1917, Albert Einstein established the theoretic foundations for the laser and the maser in the paper Zur Quantentheorie der Strahlung (On the Quantum Theory of Radiation); via a re-derivation of Max Planck's law of radiation, conceptually based upon probability coefficients (Einstein coefficients) for the absorption, spontaneous emission, and stimulated emission of electromagnetic radiation;"

    It is not inconceivable that someone in 1917 asked the same question of Albert (or even the researchers in the 50's that put this into real world science) that you have just asked of Cern and Peter Higgs. What's the point of all of this? And look at what lasers do for us today.

    What WILL it do? No idea. Nobody knows. What could it do? The Higgs boson assigns mass to particles. What could you do if you could modify that process?

    In reality it is too early to tell what the application of this finding is. The Switzerland/Melbourne press conference was a media event to justify their expenditure. It is not the end of the process, it is just the beginning. They have evidence of a new particle. Now repeated experiments are there to follow up and improve the confidence level of that finding (and by confidence level, I mean that in a statistical sense, not in a 'we have confidence in this' sense so don't misinterpret that). And they are also wanting to understand the properties of that finding. There is a theory that suggests that the 'God Particle' could be a class of particles and there could be 5 particles. That is the exciting point about science - postulate a theory and test it. Success and failure in that experiment is always an exciting event.

    Now as for the funding, it is hard for the public to understand why this should be important, and hence why they should support the funding. If the benefits are not obvious, then often they don't care. But it is only through education and knowledge do we progress as a society. And that means spending money on 'stupid' things like finding out if polar bears are left handed. Because every now and then, along comes a laser, dna structure or penicillin type discovery that will change the world.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. BlueNebula

    BlueNebula Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    59
    Occupation:
    Experienced Marketer and Team Leader
    Location:
    Andromeda Galaxy
    I hope you are joking... nevertheless your post gave me a good laugh.
     
  17. NeoPat

    NeoPat Power Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    164
    I understand where your coming from, but the chances in an infinite system like the universe mean that something like the earth can form, but those chances are miniscule and are too small of something like the earth occurring, and like i said the creation is, almost or more or less perfect for life to occur in personally i dont think you can compare finite system ie the deck of cards with an infinite system like the universe as with the finite there is always a range and limit whereas the infinite has no limit therefore the chances of life occurring in a limitless environment is possible and not possible but like i said the chances are far too small almost as if there was no gap for error a millisecond later and things would have been alot more different. The stringent conditions which were required far outweigh the possibility of it occurring by chance.
    And then if you look at the eventual consequence ie the creation of life, the universe and everything else, the natural organisation which has occurred can not have been chance its a puzzle and the pieces fit in perfectly with one another.
    There is no deformity and issue or anything out of place everything works as it should do without any bugs or viruses.
    But im open to your arguments as i find it interesting
     
  18. jheyslow

    jheyslow Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    710
    Occupation:
    trying new things
    Congrats for them for Discovering another small particles smaller than an atom. But I believe there is no end to it. In one atom there's like one universe on it, but we don't have the technology to see it right now.
     
  19. Cnotey

    Cnotey Power Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    910
    Location:
    Seattle
    Home Page:
    No, this is just a discussion that does not need to take place here. And it's always the athiests who bring it up first, forcing those of us who do have faith in a higher being to defend our beliefs. I don't want to get into that in my place of business. It's a touchy subject, and it has no place at all on BHW. Maybe my choice of wording could be better.

    And I don't have the need to prove my knowledge of anything to you regarding quantum theory. But any time you want to have a skype conversation on the subject, let me know.

    Search my post history, and you will see what I do for a day job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  20. BlaqReaper

    BlaqReaper Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    207
    An infinite universe in my opinion should actually help the odds for life because because things are constantly changing allowing for the small chance of life to occur. And I agree with the no room for error even the millisecond scale, but you have to take into consideration the age of Earth. 4.5 Billion years (that's if you accept what they guess the age is). Here's a good representation of the timeline of earth vs timeline of people: http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/time/line.html (we are the thin red stripe). Now consider that the universe is about 3 times the age of Earth and we're not even a fraction of a millisecond compared to the age of the universe. Sure it seems long to us because we only live 100 years, but in terms of the universe we're not even a blip on the radar yet. And considering our current environmental problems we're going to destroy the earth before we even reach a millisecond in proportion to the universe's age.

    That said, I'm not out to bash religion or anything (not my place to do so). Just trying to explain how scientists can believe in the creation of the universe. Apologies for the rambling ^^.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.