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Scammed by ZNEVE08

Discussion in 'The Shit List' started by AlanWatts33, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. AlanWatts33

    AlanWatts33 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Some may remember the Amazon keyword ranking thread I had up on the marketplace for a short time. It happened to be a dual partnership. At the beginning I was in charge of payments. One day I saw that my paypal account was not working. Security issues or whatever. We needed to get payments from clients so we temporarily switched over to zneve's paypal account. When I contacted paypal, I found out that my partner tried to hack my paypal(he apparently didnt trust me) and my account got locked out. We worked it out and continued the service with him controlling payments.

    I have a day job and was currently just working on everything except the ranking. The original process was my idea but we settled for a 70/30 profit separation, 30 for me, 70 for him. He had all the money, and we decided I would be paid once the clients received their full service, as to avoid payback for refunds.

    We increasingly become agitated with one another, I was okay with taking a smaller cut since he was wanting more and more, but we ended up separating from the business. We agreed I would get my full 30% up to that point we discontinued.

    The total amount we grossed from 4/08-4/25(the span of time I wasn't paid for) was $10,628.26

    I of course never received any amount of this. 30% was my cut, as agreed upon. I understand 50% of expenses would have to be deducted, plus any refunds that did occur. We actually drew up legal documents but he never signed them. Although verbal contracts still exist. There is so much more detail that goes into this but ill stop it here with some screenshots of our conversations.

    ShitList1.png ShitList2.png ShitList3.png ShitList4.png ShitList5.png ShitList6.png ShitList7.png
     
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  2. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Shitlist Request Approved

    @zneve08 has been notified he has 48 hours to respond to this post.

    PS. Reminder to all who have current issues, keep it PROFESSIONAL. No name calling or other insults.

    Reminder to everyone else:

    Shit list rule #4:
    If you are not directly related to the situation, or are not offering information directly related to the situation: do not post in the thread.
     
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  3. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    @zneve08 - you were online and saw my message yet chose not to respond?

    [​IMG]

    That's bad optics, Dude.
     
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  4. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I take this very seriously and wanted to make sure my entire story was told correctly before hastily responding. When I saw 48H was given, I did not know I needed to PM you before posting here, I do apologize for that. If anything else is needed, please let me know.

    Working with Alan Watts was a horrifying experience. When I met Alan I believed that he could offer my ranking clients reviews that were search engine optimized to boost rankings and that these reviews would be necessary for most keywords to be ranked. As I began taking on more and more clients it became apparent reviews were obsolete and my ranking method would be sufficient to rank all clients and all keywords under the A9 amazon algorithm. At that time, I decided to allow Alan to stay with the company because he had a lot of personal information about my own amazon business that he was quick to threaten me with weekly. I was scared of Alan revealing this information and amazon’s reaction to it, so I put my morals aside and kept quiet to save my business. Although Alan has signed an NDA, with such a reckless attitude and threats, I assumed Alan would have no problem going to court after breaking such an agreement.

    I had created a partnership with Alan based off of the assumption that he would be providing reviews for my ranking clients and also be in charge of forum customer service, these two jobs that he would provide would pay him 30% of net profits. Reviews for ranking clients being the main reason he would get his share.

    It became apparent to me he was unable to fulfill his customer service duties when he would take a great deal of time getting back to BHW messages from clients. I reminded him to respond to BHW posts on the thread as his time was very limited. Alan has a family with small children at home, along with a 9AM-5PM day job, simple tasks like responding daily to a small client base promptly was difficult for him. Luckily most of the ranking clients would contact me through skype so I could attend to them and give them the attention they rightfully deserved.

    Because Alan was not needed for reviews to rank clients, and his prior commitments kept him from fulfilling customer service - The entire burden of this so called “partnership” was thrust upon me. At this point I spoke with him bringing up a few concerns:

    1. I was now working 12 hours + per day to do skype/email customer service as well as all of the ranking work providing the entire service by myself.

    2. Reviews were not needed to rank as we had originally thought, in fact no client we ever had signed up for reviews nor was given this service, making his part of our "partnership" obsolete.

    3. He knew personal information about my business and was quick to say he would tell amazon, reveal confidential information, and try to shut down the ranking method website I was currently using at the time (microworkers.com).

    I was in a pickle, even though Alan Watts had nothing to do with the company, worked very little because of his previous obligations (wife, family, 9-5 job), he had personal information about my company and if revealed could do some damage. Feeling like a hostage, to save my own company I decided it was best to let him stay and wait it out until I could do something more.

    Indeed as Alan said his paypal account was blocked and we both agreed it was best to move the paypal to my account to solve this blocked issue. He did receive a payment prior to his account being blocked for the first week of ranking clients that he conveniently left out of this forum post.

    Along with none of my ranking clients ever needing his review service, nor receiving it, Alan became unable to provide this service even if called upon. The group he was using on facebook for reviews was compromised with informants joining and legal action pending against him. You would think with so many things happening - legal actions pending against Alan, Alan not being able to provide reviews anymore, no client ever needing reviews nor receiving them, limited time and customer service to dedicate to the business because of his previous obligations, etc. I would have asked him to leave. But how do you ask a man to leave a “partnership” after he threatens to reveal your entire business after signing an NDA? It would be like keeping your wallet at knife point from a mugger, or at least that’s how I felt at the time.

    It was actually his choice to leave, which shut down the BHW thread, and cost me more than one month’s time trying to get my own thread approved so my business, which I eventually did, but by business came to a screeching halt when he quit. Taking 1 month off cost me over $10,000 in potential gross revenue on BHW due to Alan.

    Not only was Alan’s review service not needed nor ever used, which is what our partnership was based off of in the first place, he actually brought impending legal action against our services with what he was accused of doing on the side. Alan was accused of hiring people to post negative reviews on a person’s product page and this person contacted my services Gmail address threatening legal action. When I brought it up with him, he could not be bothered and was quick to dismiss the accusations… But any threat of legal action is a serious one. After this, he decided to quit, and personally that was fine with me as he never did any work for the services and his review method, which the entire partnership was founded on, was never used and at this point the entire group he had set up on facebook was compromised with an impending law suit… So it was a blessing to have him leave on his own accord.

    To conclude:

    The entire partnership was formed around Alan being able to provide and providing verified amazon reviews to clients. It became clear to us both reviews were not needed to rank, and my ranking method was only needed. Not only were reviews not needed for the service, but Alan had brought a threat of law suit to the companies email address, as well as leaving the facebook group he had set up, relinquishing his authority there to even get reviewers if needed.

    I felt as if I was a hostage being held under threats that he would disclose my business to amazon so I stayed taking daily abuse in fear against my own morals and conscience. I had a hard decision to make, do I give the mugger my wallet, or let him stab me. For better or for worse, I chose the knife, so here we are...
     
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  5. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  6. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    @zneve08 - In all that rhetoric I do not see any proof where you said you would not pay him but I do see proof above in Skype chats that you were going to pay him.

    Can you show some screen shot conversations where you told him you were not going to pay the 30%?
     
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  7. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    It was not particularly in my interest to tell Alan that he would not be getting his cut for actually putting no work in, or contributing at all to the partnership or ranking service, as I was being extorted and threatened. Again, I needed to figure out if I was just going to pay off the threat and blackmail or face what ever action he decided to take. If you would like to see the threats and abuse, I can get those screenshots for you tomorrow. May I ask what is being decided here, so I can help provide more information for you to make a decision on the matter?
     
  8. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Let's see the entire conversation between you guys then.

    Tomorrow is fine as this is a bank Holiday where I live anyway.

    @AlanWatts33 - please provide the entire conversation as well.
     
  9. AlanWatts33

    AlanWatts33 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    There was no blackmail whatsoever. I wasnt gonna let someone make thousands a month off a method that I created without giving me my share. I responded very quickly to everyone on BHW with my thread. I brought in most of the clients. There is no need to blackmail, we agreed on a percentage, I worked hours a day, was always in contact with <redacted>. The method itself, as I can prove by screenshots, is my intellectual property. Before I signed any NDA, I was the founder of it. Fortunately in the NDA it states that any information I knew prior to signing is not relevant and won't hold up as Confidential Information.

    Providing an entire conversation in screenshots would be ridiculous. We were working in a business together. Before I deleted everything, I did copy the whole conversations from facebook and skype into a document. But yeah, it would take days to go through it all. Its pretty much plain as day I wasnt extorting my former friend and partner here. He was obviously sketched out, as I would be too, but I am a very trusting person.

    This is from facebook, I should be able to get screenshots too. If this convo needs to be made private, I understand, but I just want to be upfront. This whole ranking method was created by me. I can;t prove that exactly, but this convo proves I taught it to Zack.

    Mod Edit - Removed the conversation as it shared the method and I didn't think it was wise to leave that out there in public.

    It is still available as it is only hidden from the forum and not from the Staff.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2017
  10. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Screen shots are not necessary if it would be too cumbersome but if you have that doc please upload it to mediafire and drop it to me in a PM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  11. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Ill go through my Facebook log and Skype on July 4th/5th and have my proof that the only thing Alan provided was a website URL where I did the split testing and created the entire method. Facebook should store those messages and I believe if I log into my old laptop the Skype message a will be stored as well. If Skype is stored, I will also provide evidence that should be compelling enough to show you that I was acting under duress and fearing for my business. Please give me until July 6th at the latest to prepare these screenshots, its a big job, so enough time after the holiday.

    If you can edit my full real name out of Alans last post to comply with the "shit list" TOS I would appreciate it.
     
  12. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    July 6th is fine by me.
     
  13. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Thank you for giving me the time to put my case together BassTracker. Below are photographs of a face book messenger conversation that spanned the one month we were working together. You will find each photo with an explanation written for that corresponding photo as to why it has been submitted for your review.

    My writing for all of these screenshots is in blue, and AlanWatts writing is in grey next to his facebook profile image.
    [​IMG]

    From this except you will see that the paypal account to take payments was changed to mine after agreement from both parties.

    [​IMG]

    Here I have asked the question to Alan Watts what he felt a fair profit split would be for both of us. This is dated April 7th and was after both of us realized reviews would not be necessary to rank clients and perform the service. Generating reviews was Alan Watts job as he had nothing to do with the on site SEO keyword ranking, which was my job. Alan Watts admits that he believed 10% would be a fair pay for him as he said "I know we agreed to split it but I literally don't do anything." "I'm like an affiliate..." "I dont really deserve anything."

    Alan Watts explains in his own words that he does not deserve anything.

    [​IMG]
    Here Alan Watts goes on to explain in the first paragraph "it would just help me out a lot if you could explain exactly what and how many search/wishlists to do." Here it is made clear that Alan Watts did not create a ranking method, he only supplied the website microworkers.com to me so I could create the keyword ranking method through my extensive testing. Now he is asking for that method.

    [​IMG]

    Here we see Alan Watts requesting information about the keyword ranking portion, Quoted stating: "I would rather learn what kinds of traffic you are bringing for long tailed keywords, head terms, how to maintain after the fact you got it ranked." showing that he did not invent a method only gave me a website URL. The second paragraph shows him guessing at what the method is, I did not steal any intellectual property, AlanWatts never had any method to steal - I was and am the sole creator.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This excerpt shows my reaction to his questions about trying to learn the keyword ranking method I created.
    [​IMG]
    Here is Alan Watts response to how I was feeling about him trying to learn my keyword ranking method. "You understand I asked for 10% right?" Again reiterating that he also felt his place in the service was small to none at this point. He goes on to say "Even if the group sucks at this point..." reiterating that his review facebook group is in shambles falling apart and is no longer secure, therefore we can not offer it to clients even if it was needed to rank, which it was not.

    Alan Watts goes on to say: "I guess you are right though, I never get the keyword stuff, and even if I did , as long as you still wanted to do the ranking service, I wouldnt opt out." Admitting again that he does not understand how to rank for keywords, nor use the website microworkers.com to rank keywords, and states he would not opt out which later in my skype conversations I will show you he did indeed opt out.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In these shots you will see that the review group is compromised again. This excerpt corresponds with the photos provided in an earlier post in an email from an angry person threatening to sue Alan Watts for allegations of negative review tampering.

    To conclude the main points:

    Alan Watts admits through direct quote on April 7th 2017 "I know we agreed to split it but I literally don't do anything." "I'm like an affiliate..." "I dont really deserve anything."

    Later Alan shows that no intellectual property was stolen from him as he did not create the method. He admits this by asking for the method on multiple occasions: "it would just help me out a lot if you could explain exactly what and how many search/wishlists to do." Here it is made clear that Alan Watts did not create a ranking method, he only supplied the website microworkers.com to me so I could create the keyword ranking method through my extensive testing.

    He goes on to say on a separate occasion:
    "I guess you are right though, I never get the keyword stuff, and even if I did , as long as you still wanted to do the ranking service, I wouldnt opt out." Admitting again that he does not understand how to rank for keywords


    The verbal abuse from AlanWatts that ensued throughout this month is in our skype conversations. This can be supplied to you upon request BassTracker, please let me know if you would like to review it, or if it is needed to help strengthen my case. I am currently on vacation outside the country and although I do have the laptop skype stored Alan and I's conversation on, the screen is broken and therefor I would need to find a TV to plug an HDMI cable into to operate it. This may not seem like a problem, but while traveling in India it can be a little difficult to find such luxuries. Again though, if it is needed I can provide this to you within 1-2 days time of your request, a nearby hotel should have a TV with an HDMI port I can use for a fee.


    Thank you for your time,
    Zack
     
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  14. AlanWatts33

    AlanWatts33 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Verbal Abuse? You mean such as trying to login to my paypal account? And it's funny that you should provide the proof. When i asked about Jamies account you said you would do it yourself...as in, login to my paypal and change the email. Of course anyone that tries to gain access to someones personal funds are not going to exactly hear the sweet side of things.

    Even though I said 10%, you agreed to 30%. The mod will see that in the convo I provided. And even so, wheres my 10% then? 50% of the job is getting clients, selling them on the service. I have seen your "method", its EXACTLY what I told you to do. I was asking for general tips, which are just gained through actively USING MY METHOD.

    BTW I can provide current ranking methods he uses in screenshots. They are exactly what I showed him in our earlier conversations.
     
  15. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You gave me the password of your own accord for some reason, it was <redacted> and was freely given, I didn't ask . The verbal abuse had nothing to do with the PayPal account and you know that. You had stated you deserved nothing pretty clearly saying you do nothing. I agree with that.

    You have caused immense amounts of turmoil and unnessisary suffering. You were unable to provide your part of the partnership, reviews. I didn't hire a VA for customer service, and I wasn't interested in teaching you my method like an SEO course would be. I wanted a partner who could provide reviews to help rank, and that's what you signed up for, and you failed to deliver every step of the way.

    As I said, if the Skype conversations are necessary I will provide them to the MOD on request. I believe the point I am trying to make is firmly stated in my above post though.
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2017
  16. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    After reading more than I cared to read, and ignoring the parts not really relevant to the actual deal I think it comes down to this.

    @AlanWatts33 did participate to a certain extent and considers himself an affiliate at this point. Starting a thread on BHW and bringing a couple of people to the business has some value. An approved sales thread on BHW is not a given when one applies for it so there was some work involved in getting that up and approved.

    An affiliate that drives traffic to an offer that converts deserves something in return and I think the 10% mentioned is fair.

    I do not know if you are still traveling or not, @zneve08, but if you are not please upload a spreadsheet of income and expenses to mediafire and drop me a link. I don't think that your expenses should be public as that would out your process.

    From that spreadsheet we can make a determination of the actual profits so that you can pay @AlanWatts33 10% of the profits.

    If you are still traveling I am fine waiting until you are back at your home base as I know that it can be a pain to handle something like that if you are on the road.
     
  17. zneve08

    zneve08 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Thank you for the grace period until im back in the developed world. I am traveling until the end of the month and would be available with all expenses as well as profit documents after the first week of August at the latest. I will of course work on getting this together slowly and do expect to have it to you by the end of the weekend in a PM as requested. You're being very generous and I hope Alan can see that and move on from this. I will PM you soon with the profit/expense proof.
     
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  18. AlanWatts33

    AlanWatts33 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good enough, thank you. I guess that covers the part where I am reimbursed. If the payment is timely, that would help, I know this might be a more unique case. While we did agree at 30%, I do think 10% is fair enough since I did mention that amount and no legal documents were signed.

    I don't think this puts past the fact that I was short-changed. The only time I got paid was when I handled the paypal account. I sent his portion of the profit immediately in full by friends and family. Once he handled payments, he decided to keep the whole share. While I do not want to take stabs at character, that's a serious malfunction in business operations. And I made mistakes too, but with my own Amazon business(ranking and reviews), I always strive for excellency of service before anything else.
     
  19. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Just reminding you that I need that information when you are back at your home base.
     
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  20. AlanWatts33

    AlanWatts33 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    paymentagreement.png


    Boats, you are being very generous to Zack and I hope he can see that and move on from this.