Scammed by Race International for $45.00

why u told me about gift payment?

bcz u don,t sent me gift payment.u sent me 60$ for 20 account but u told me 15 account bad so u want to back 45$ and i sent u 45$

why u asked me about send as refund of original payment, or as gift.

just see u payment details

Noah Hawryshko sent you $60.00 USD

Transaction Details
Transaction ID: 72M15436R0166553B
October 8, 2016

Money received
$60.00 USD

Fee $2.64 USD
Total $57.36 USD

where u did sent gift payment?

Race International said:

why u told me about gift payment?

bcz u don,t sent me gift payment.u sent me 60$ for 20 account but u told me 15 account bad so u want to back 45$ and i sent u 45$

why u asked me about send as refund of original payment, or as gift.

just see u payment details

Noah Hawryshko sent you $60.00 USD

Transaction Details
Transaction ID: 72M15436R0166553B
October 8, 2016

Money received
$60.00 USD

Fee $2.64 USD
Total $57.36 USD

where u did sent gift payment?

Click to expand...

It's very simple. PayPal takes fees. If you send it back as goods he has to wait 21 days and he loses money, for no reason whatsoever.

If you refund him directly paypal returns the fee so he gets a full refund.

bur i need to sent 45$
why i will sent u 60$ full refund?

Race International said:

bur i need to sent 45$
why i will sent u 60$ full refund?

Click to expand...

You can easily send a partial refund directly of $45

Race International said:

why u told me about gift payment?

bcz u don,t sent me gift payment.u sent me 60$ for 20 account but u told me 15 account bad so u want to back 45$ and i sent u 45$

why u asked me about send as refund of original payment, or as gift.

just see u payment details

Noah Hawryshko sent you $60.00 USD

Transaction Details
Transaction ID: 72M15436R0166553B
October 8, 2016

Money received
$60.00 USD

Fee $2.64 USD
Total $57.36 USD

where u did sent gift payment?

Click to expand...

CRT said:

It's very simple. PayPal takes fees. If you send it back as goods he has to wait 21 days and he loses money, for no reason whatsoever.

If you refund him directly paypal returns the fee so he gets a full refund.

Click to expand...

Race International said:

bur i need to sent 45$
why i will sent u 60$ full refund?

Click to expand...

CRT said:

You can easily send a partial refund directly of $45

Click to expand...

I don't usually participate in active shitlist threads as it is against the rules but this is probably relevant to the situation. My apologies if I am speaking out of turn here.

@Race International I am not suggesting that it is your intention but sending the payment to @Noah Hawryshko as a regular payment means you would be free to charge the payment back at sometime after this shitlist has been resolved, up to 180 days after the transaction. The fees you incurred are something you have to deal with as a business seller but that does not mean you can pass those fees back to your customer when you need to initiate a refund. If you did decide to charge back the money you are paying to the OP he would then need to start the whole shitlist process again.

As @CRT has quite rightly pointed out you can do a partial refund of any transaction with the amount specified by yourself.

@I know SEO feel free to delete my post and take me into the street for 30 lashes if I shouldn't have posted in this thread but I do believe this to be relevant to the thread as is CRT's post.

I am sorry I have to post here too, race international is really unprofessional in his service ,
I have initially ask to order 2 quality Facebook accounts from him , I send it to him within 15 mins. After which , he told me he will send it soon , I HAD TO BEG AND ASKED HIM FOR TWO DAYS ON SKYPE. and he told me the delay was due to him not being at home. Wtf seriously ?!
It's okay .. I just take it that he's really busy.. One account was okay , one account is totally shit, verification and all, told him TWICE I need a replacement, he said okay , and yes it's fucking more than a month now, I get no replies for the replacement.

Here's an update with the relevant chat logs. The user has requested that I don't posted these, but I'm really not interested in playing "he-said-she-said" this late into a Shit List, and would rather have the information out in public for the sake of transparency, clearing both me and the user from any wrongdoing that we did not commit. Moderators are free to remove this if they believe it's distasteful.

That being said, as of late the user has been very proactive in helping us get this refund thing over and done with. From what I understand, the user does not have access to the original PayPal that the money was sent to, so I agreed to let the user send me $45.00 as a gift and as a gift only. I've given the user 24 hours to do so.

Here are the logs. I've added the reference line 10/25/2016 in this log also, to make it easier to see how the conversations are connected:

[10/25/2016 12:33:21 PM] Race international-bhw: k
[10/27/2016 2:32:15 AM] Race international-bhw: I paid
Transaction ID: 7JB33501X5316154V
[10/27/2016 2:32:21 AM] Race international-bhw: 6 hours ago
[10/27/2016 2:35:48 AM] Race international-bhw: plz check u paypal address
[10/27/2016 2:42:44 AM] Race international-bhw: u there now?
[10/27/2016 8:53:06 AM] Race international-bhw: hello
[10/27/2016 8:53:09 AM] Race international-bhw: u there?
[10/27/2016 9:58:58 AM] Race international-bhw: hello
[10/27/2016 9:59:03 AM] Race international-bhw: why u don,t reply me?
[10/27/2016 2:08:40 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Yeah, but there are some complications. First of all, I wanted a partial refund, rather than a direct payment. Second, if you sent me a direct payment, you should have sent it as a gift through PayPal, rather than as payment for a service...

Give me some time and I'll try to sort this out.
[10/27/2016 4:13:27 PM] Race international-bhw: means
[10/28/2016 3:55:44 PM] Race international-bhw: hi
[10/28/2016 3:55:47 PM] Race international-bhw: u there?
[10/28/2016 3:56:39 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Yes, what's up?
[10/28/2016 3:58:00 PM] Race international-bhw: u did delected thread form blackhatworld
[10/28/2016 3:58:07 PM] Race international-bhw: plz do it
[2:57:57 AM] Noah Hawryshko: I can't close the thread yet because you sent me the money the wrong way. As far as I know, moderators will not delete threads, even after they've been closed. Either way, you're going to have to talk with them about that.

Please check the thread: https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/scammed-by-race-international-for-45-00.886967/#post-9398292
[9:31:46 AM] Race international-bhw: hi
[9:31:51 AM] Race international-bhw: u there now?
[11:09:48 PM] Race international-bhw: hello bro
[11:10:00 PM] Race international-bhw: u did sent refund 45$
[11:10:15 PM] Race international-bhw: or I will pay 45$ paypal fee
[11:10:20 PM] Race international-bhw: just tell me
[11:10:37 PM] Race international-bhw: I will want to complete it
[11:12:51 PM] Race international-bhw: plz reply me
[11:19:58 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Yes, refund has been sent.
[11:20:12 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Transaction ID: 73C88184B48183319
[11:20:43 PM] Race international-bhw: okk
[11:20:56 PM] Race international-bhw: I will sent u 47.50$
[11:21:07 PM | Edited 11:21:14 PM] Race international-bhw: then u can 45$
[11:21:39 PM] Race international-bhw: I can.t sent u gift payment
[11:21:45 PM] Noah Hawryshko: No, just use the refund feature and issue a partial refund.
[11:21:52 PM] Race international-bhw: 60$
[11:21:57 PM] Race international-bhw: u want refund
[11:22:33 PM] Noah Hawryshko: You don't need to refund the full $60.00 and I'm not asking you to. A "partial" refund means that you only give me some of the money back. In this case, I'm asking for $45.00.
[11:23:12 PM] Race international-bhw: bro I will sent u 60$ refund
[11:23:18 PM] Race international-bhw: u will sent me 15$
[11:23:19 PM] Race international-bhw: okk
[11:23:23 PM] Race international-bhw: I can,t do it
[11:23:31 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Yes, that will work.
[11:23:37 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Make SURE you send it as a gift.
[11:23:38 PM] Race international-bhw: bcz it is not my paypal account
[11:24:05 PM] Race international-bhw: bro when u will sent money then u don,t sent me gift payment
[11:24:19 PM | Edited 11:24:25 PM] Race international-bhw: if u want then I can sent u 47.50$
[11:24:37 PM] Race international-bhw: I have no option paypal gift payment
[11:24:56 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Oh, okay. Try sending money "to family and friends". Do you see an option like that?
[11:25:13 PM] Race international-bhw: I can sent u 47.50$
[11:25:23 PM] Race international-bhw: then u get 45$ up
[11:25:51 PM] Noah Hawryshko: No, I won't accept a non-gift payment of $47.50. I won't do this because then the money gets held by PayPal for 21 days, which I don't want.
[11:25:59 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Hold on a second.
[11:26:13 PM] Noah Hawryshko: You on a computer or mobile phone? I'll guide you through it.
[11:27:16 PM] Race international-bhw: bro I have no paypal account .I did used my brother paypal address.i have no login information.just tell me which payment u want?i will try it
[11:27:26 PM] Race international-bhw: or I can sent u 60$ full refund
[11:27:47 PM] Race international-bhw: or I can sent 47.50$
[11:27:56 PM] Race international-bhw: i can,t sent u gift payment
[11:27:59 PM] Noah Hawryshko: You can send me a refund of $60.00 if you want, but you HAVE to use the refund feature.
[11:28:04 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Is this fair?
[11:28:48 PM] Race international-bhw: if i could sent money then when i do it?
[11:29:12 PM] Noah Hawryshko: I don't understand what you mean, could you try saying it a different way?
[11:29:39 PM] Race international-bhw: means if i could sent u money then i don,t late
[11:29:44 PM] Race international-bhw: i have no paypal address
[11:29:56 PM] Race international-bhw: i can sent u 60$ full refund
[11:30:01 PM] Noah Hawryshko: You're saying you need more time to be able to issue a refund?
[11:30:03 PM] Race international-bhw: then u will sent me 15$
[11:30:25 PM] Race international-bhw: i can sent u 60$ full refund
[11:30:31 PM] Race international-bhw: then u will sent me 15$
[11:30:37 PM] Race international-bhw: u undestood
[11:30:48 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Yeah, that works. But you will use the PayPal refund feature, right?
[11:31:02 PM] Race international-bhw: yes
[11:31:06 PM] Race international-bhw: it will work good
[11:31:07 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Okay. Sounds good.
[11:31:08 PM] Race international-bhw: i think sp
[11:31:24 PM] Noah Hawryshko: How long will it be until you're able to do this?
[11:31:51 PM] Race international-bhw: after 6-7 hours
[11:32:09 PM] Race international-bhw: my brother is office now
[11:32:13 PM] Race international-bhw: i will do it
[11:32:22 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Okay. I'll give you up to 24 hours, deal?
[11:32:30 PM] Race international-bhw: bro
[11:32:34 PM] Race international-bhw: i will coming soon
[11:32:38 PM] Race international-bhw: don,t worry
[11:32:51 PM] Noah Hawryshko: But you agree to 24 hours, at the most?
[11:32:56 PM] Race international-bhw: u don,t post blackhatworld
[11:32:58 PM] Race international-bhw: yes
[11:33:08 PM] Race international-bhw: i will with in 12 hours
[11:33:12 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Everything we talk about needs to be public for the sake of transparency. I'm sorry.
[11:33:32 PM] Race international-bhw: bro i have repution on blackhaqtworld
[11:33:42 PM] Race international-bhw: plz understood me
[11:33:43 PM] Noah Hawryshko: I'll say you were cooperative though, because I know that you're doing your best to get me my refund, land others will see that too.
[11:34:07 PM] Race international-bhw: when i told u that i will not refund?
[11:34:18 PM] Race international-bhw: i did use another paypal account
[11:34:22 PM] Race international-bhw: so some late
[11:34:48 PM] Noah Hawryshko: I don't really understand what you're saying again, sorry.
[11:35:13 PM] Race international-bhw: means i use another paypal address for accept money
[11:35:26 PM] Race international-bhw: so i need to want sent form another paypal money u
[11:35:39 PM] Race international-bhw: when he free then he sent money to me?
[11:35:55 PM] Noah Hawryshko: You can do that, just send it as "gift" or "to family and friends".
[11:36:19 PM] Race international-bhw: i will sent u full 60$ refund or 45$ gift
[11:36:37 PM] Noah Hawryshko: $45.00 gift works fine. Will you do that?
[11:36:58 PM] Race international-bhw: ok bro
[11:37:06 PM] Race international-bhw: i will try hardly
[11:37:08 PM] Race international-bhw: do it
[11:37:16 PM] Race international-bhw: plz don,t any post bhw
[11:37:18 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Alright, I'm going to give you 24 hours.
[11:37:19 PM] Race international-bhw: plz
[11:38:05 PM] Noah Hawryshko: As I said, I have to do that. It's important that you and I are cleared of any wrongdoing or underhandedness that we did not commit, and the only way to do that is to keep our conversations fully transparent.
[11:39:06 PM] Race international-bhw: now u trust me that i will sent u money
[11:39:30 PM] Race international-bhw: and when i don,t tell u that i will not give u money back?
[11:39:38 PM] Race international-bhw: just i told u that give me time
[11:40:43 PM] Noah Hawryshko: That's good, but I'm still not going to refrain from posting. It's not because I don't like you or I'm trying to get revenge of any sort, it's just because users and moderators need to know that what I've said is true. You need to think ahead about your online reputation when you start not answering requests for refunds and replacements, and as much as I hate to say it, that's your fault and your fault alone.
[11:41:54 PM] Race international-bhw: ok bro
[11:42:00 PM] Race international-bhw: i am so sorry
[11:42:19 PM] Race international-bhw: i am busy with my father on hospatal
[11:42:22 PM] Race international-bhw: so late
[11:43:10 PM] Noah Hawryshko: It's alright, just make sure you treat your customers good from now on. You can't commit to a business that you can't run. It's not fair to me or you.
[11:43:25 PM] Race international-bhw: ok bro
[11:43:55 PM] Race international-bhw: but some people do use account some days and want replacement after few days
[11:44:06 PM] Race international-bhw: how i will sent then replacement?
[11:44:12 PM] Race international-bhw: u tell me
[11:44:33 PM] Noah Hawryshko: What do you mean?
[11:45:14 PM] Race international-bhw: means another client buy account form me and they use account few days and they get problem and want repalcment after few days
[11:45:29 PM] Race international-bhw: how i can sent them repaclment?
[11:45:54 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Replacement accounts? Just send them in a file like you did for me. I don't see how this is relevant.
[11:46:19 PM] Race international-bhw: i don,t tell about u?
[11:46:40 PM] Race international-bhw: i told u about another cleint
[11:46:40 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying again.
[11:46:45 PM] Race international-bhw: ok bro
[11:46:46 PM] Race international-bhw: np
[11:46:50 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Sorry :/
[11:46:54 PM | Edited 11:47:01 PM] Race international-bhw: i will sent u coming soon money
[11:47:08 PM] Race international-bhw: just trust me
[11:47:10 PM] Noah Hawryshko: No, I don't want accounts. I want $45.00 sent as a gift.
[11:47:27 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Oh, you edited. Got it, I know what you meant now.
[11:47:38 PM] Race international-bhw: i will sent u coming soon money
just trust me
[11:47:40 PM] Noah Hawryshko: Okay.
[11:47:50 PM] Race international-bhw: plz don,t any post on bhw
[11:47:52 PM] Race international-bhw: plz
[11:48:03 PM] Noah Hawryshko: I already told you, that's not going to happen.
[11:48:16 PM] Race international-bhw: thanks bro
[11:48:18 PM] Race international-bhw: many thanks
[11:48:33 PM] Noah Hawryshko: You too, don't worry, we'll get this refund thing sorted out.
[11:48:43 PM] Race international-bhw: ok bro

If I've done my timezone math correctly, it looks like @Race International has failed to hold up his end of the bargain and issue me a refund within the previously agreed upon 24 hour window.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a morning person.

@I know SEO Do you have a procedure as to what to do next? What does one do if a user repeatedly misses agreed upon deadlines?

Can't tell if you're currently on or if you've seen the previous post, because the profiles of moderators can't be creeped on the same way profiles of normal users can.

Either way, give me a shout and we'll figure out the best way to get this resolved as soon as possible. This thread is undoubtedly taking longer than you or I want to spend on it.

payment sent


Payment Sent (Unique Transaction ID # 3KK098836M8304902)


Sent to:
Noah Hawryshko (The recipient of this payment is Non-U.S. - Verified)
Email:
[email protected]
Amount sent:
-$45.00 USD
Transaction Details

Payment received and added to balance, thanks man.

As this is my first SL I don't know if there's anything else that needs to happen, so I'll just wait for @I know SEO to chime in or close the thread

Also, for the sake of being fair, there are a couple things I should highlight about @Race International during this process which may have been glossed over by users or moderators. Please read this if you've been following.

First, it seems to me that Race International is not a native English speaker, so it was unfair of me to automatically assume that he was dodging questions or being difficult in certain circumstances, when in reality it may have been due to a language barrier that is out of his control. I'd urge others to consider this.

Second, I don't believe that Race International was trying to purposely send me the wrong payment method when I received the first refund. I believe that it was an honest mistake due to lack of knowledge and I'd urge others to do the same.

Third, Race International mentioned that he was going through some personal troubles so that also factored into the equation. The important thing to note here is that he had mentioned these circumstances before the Shit List was even thought of, so I don't believe that he was either lying about these personal circumstances or trying to leverage them down the road. I'd urge others to likewise keep this in mind.

Glad it got sorted.

Thread shut