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Scammed by Memme Blackhatlinks owner 579.80 €

Discussion in 'The Shit List' started by blackwalker, Sep 26, 2019.

  1. memme

    memme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    We tried to solve this in private pm. We explained him that a withdrawal of credits is never available.
    I understand that if we fail to deliver what we advertise we have to refund and we do so! He ordered and we exactly delivered what we advertise. If the customer decided, for what reason ever, not to continue using our service there is no natural right to withdrawal discounted credits. We are not a bank.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2019
  2. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    As a seller based in Germany, you are subject to the Consumer Rights Directive (2011/83/EU).

    Article 9 of the Consumer Rights Directive gives consumers the right to withdraw from a contract without any reason within 14 days (Article 9):

    1. Save where the exceptions provided for in Article 16 apply, the consumer shall have a period of 14 days to withdraw from a distance or off-premises contract, without giving any reason, and without incurring any costs other than those provided for in Article 13(2) and Article 14.

    You fail to mention this in your Terms of Service on here - https://www.blackhatlinks.com/tos.php

    As a consequence, the right to withdraw is extended from 14 days to 12 months (Article 10):

    1. If the trader has not provided the consumer with the information on the right of withdrawal as required by point (h) of Article 6(1), the withdrawal period shall expire 12 months from the end of the initial withdrawal period, as determined in accordance with Article 9(2).

    This means that buyers of your credits are entitled to a refund, excluding any bonuses or spent credit, for a period of up to 12 months from the date they purchased those credits from you.
     
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  3. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just piggybacking on @Sephrata statement


    Withdrawal period
    The consumer disposes of a period of fourteen days to withdraw from a distance contract (art. 9). The CRD extends the right of withdrawal from seven working days to fourteen calendar days. The main reason for this extension is not increasing consumer protection, but increasing legal certainty and the reduction of compliance costs for traders. More specifically, it was the European legislator's objective to come to one withdrawal period which is the same for all distance contracts (including those on financial services) and off-premises contracts. The Timesharing Directive (art. 42.1) contains the same withdrawal period.

    It is important that the consumer is informed about his right to withdraw from the contract, since in order for the withdrawal right to be effective consumers need to be aware of the possibility to withdraw from the contract.24 Therefore, article 6.1 h CRD requires the trader to inform the consumer in a clear and comprehensible manner about the conditions of the right of withdrawal and the time limit and procedures to exercise the right of withdrawal. Also, the trader must provide the consumer with the model withdrawal form, set out in Annex (B) of the CRD. It is up to the trader to prove that the consumer was provided with this information (art. 6.9).

    If the trader does not provide the consumer with this information, the withdrawal period is extended substantially. In such a situation, it only expires 12 months from the end of the initial withdrawal period25 (art. 10). Another possibility would have been to determine that the withdrawal period never starts running, if the consumer is not informed about the withdrawal right, as was decided in the Heiniger case.26 However, an indefinite period of withdrawal was considered incompatible with the principle of legal certainty (recital 43).27 At first sight, the DCFR contains the same rule. However, the calculation of the period of one year is different, since this period starts at the time of the conclusion of the contract (Book II-5:103).

    As you sell on BHW, and on your site the end of contract has not yet been made. I was not informed about any refund from your site and your TOS is invalid by registering.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20191001214115/https://www.blackhatlinks.com/members/register.php

    You do not have a button that we agree with TOS so I am going with your advertised version on Blackhatworld.com
     
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  4. memme

    memme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Hi,

    since it is not a purchase just a transformation of money the consumer rights is not valid here. And since the credits do not expire there is no right of a withdrawal. Thats current Law.

    The problem is the bookkeeping of a withdrawal. Thats the main reason why we do not refund credits. We already paid the taxes for the income. When we add w withdrawal option of unusued credits, each time we have to open our financial reporting and adjust it.
    Thats very complex and needed to be done by a tax consultan what takes time and money. We have to take a fee to cover the costs of a withdrawal. So in most cases a withdrawal would take more in costs than it is worth.

    We might can work something out for a withdrawal but we have to remove the costs of a withdrawal from the remaining credits.

    Let me know if thats okay for you.

    If you have any further questions feel free.

    Cheers
     
  5. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Tell me how much of a percent you would be able to give me of my credits and we will see. Same for joanne because she is a part of this.
     
  6. memme

    memme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    We would refund the remaining credits and remove the costs for the tax consultant. I need to talk to the tax consultant what would be the costs for it. ( I woudl estimate about 1 hour of work what is 119€) but let me check.

    Would that be okay? Then I would ask the tax consultant for their costs...
     
  7. MisterF

    MisterF Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    If you are happy to now accept credits, he can refund you in full 100%.

    @memme this makes zero sense. This is part of being in business and nothing more.

    If a restaurant cooks a steak and serves it, the client sends it back as it is overcooked and wants a refund, then it is just one of those things. The cooks wages are still to be paid, the gas/electricity, the waitress who brought the food out and the price of the meat from the butchers.


    You absorb these fees when you refund simple.

    If @blackwalker wants a refund back to his payment method, then issue it. If he's happy taking a credit back to your services, then you credit him the full amount, not 50%.

    But going forward irrespective, any panel not refunding back to a payment method will not be tolerated.

    What your tax consultant charges you per hour has nothing to do with any buyer on here, not will these so called fees impact on any refund now or in the future.
     
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  8. Sephrata

    Sephrata Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    You need to think very carefully at what you've just said.

    You claimed above you were not a bank, but you're claiming here you are an electronic money institution.

    If you stand by this, then EU Directive 2009/110/EC will be relevant to you and I can say unequivocally you will not be registered with the Federal Financial Supervisory Authority as an electronic money institution.

    You would also have a major issue with German tax authorities as you appear to be charging VAT on purchases, which should only applicable to the supply of goods or services (and this a fairly strong evidence to show that the Consumer Rights Directive is applicable and relevant here).
     
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  9. memme

    memme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  10. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yes, I need at least 50% back, I will not accrue the costs of your tax person. I know and you know you can just add those as costs when you file taxes. I think 50% is beyond fair.
     
  11. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Shit list rule #4:
    If you are not directly related to the situation, or are not offering information directly related to the situation: do not post in the thread
     
  12. MisterF

    MisterF Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    @memme let me make this as clear as possible. It is 10.04am here. If @blackwalker is not refunded to his payment method by 10.05am tomorrow, you will get a 7 day ban and your BSTs closed.

    If in that 7 days you do not refund, your ban will be a perma ban.





    "Loaded credits are seen as voucher. Voucher are non refundable and credits remain on the voucher after partial purchases." - REFUND HIM
     
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  13. memme

    memme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I just talked to blackwalker and he can not name me the payment he used to load the credits. There is only one payment from 2014...
     
  14. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yeah your system didnt record it for some reason
    https://prnt.sc/pdqg9n

    Tick Tock

    I an take the refund to my paypal emil I can provide or bitcoin
     
  15. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Listen its been over 48 hours that you had time to resolve this and I am going to sleep in 30 minutes and you better hope we match up again with the same time zones, I am giving you the opportunity to communicate with me before I just drop my payment methods and go to sleep. The ball is in your court bucko
     
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  16. joanneceoil

    joanneceoil Newbie

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    I will also be moderately happy with a 50% refund if that means I can get my money faster.
     
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  17. blackwalker

    blackwalker Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I have gotten the money but it is in the pending status. So I am triaging this for myself. I have notified joanneceoil so she can get hers

    Edit: Gotten mine
     
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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  18. joanneceoil

    joanneceoil Newbie

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    Great to hear blackwalker, I am dming meeme to see about my refund.
     
  19. MisterF

    MisterF Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    Thanks for the update.
    Thanks for updating the @memme sorted this for you.


    Once this is refunded I'll mark this as resolved.
     
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  20. memme

    memme Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    both refunded!

    just to name the facts, both payments were from 2014!
     
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