Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by blazen, May 24, 2010.
I saw this on the CBS website
Damn, I'm terrified of using black hat techniques to get anything but traffic. This is why.
thats what u get for bragging & packaging up and selling any sort of shady method instead of scaling and profiting by yourself.
that being said - im sure he made a shit-ton-fuckload of money, considering he posted the 50K bail amount. he'll probably walk away with probation/restitution maybe even no jail time
comparison with money that's he already collecting, i think worth it money !
hope i can be like him
This is quite a monumental case.
Now that 'cookie stuffing' related material has precedent, people may start seeing jail time/fines for cookie stuff, not just a boot out of a network.
My question is, WHY WAS HE IN THE UNITED STATES? If he was making that sort of money he should have at least gone to Mexico, or something!
yea that dude used to be a member here and when shit started to hit the fan his account got deleted. sucks to be him right now...
There are about 9,000 methods which ARE LEGAL! Why bother with CS when you now know that you are going to get it up the Brown Parkway and may even go to jail over it? Ain't worth it to run the risk. Most people worry about things like Google Ranking instead of legitemately driving traffic to their websites.
It's far too easy to be legal, to send out to double opt in lists after you have generated them, so why even mess with stuff that you KNOW will get you in the Shit?
I tired it. Got a $1200 check from a network STOPPED because the network SUSPECTED CSing.
THAT was ENOUGH for me as that $1200 cancellation cost me over two grand in the cancellation and charges, so I run TOTALLY legit now but that does NOT mean that I do not use LEGAL Blackhat tactics and I am doing fine.
-Lawyer fees $100,000
-Court fees (documentation filed etc.) $50,000
-Ebay's lawyer fees $200,000
-Stress and worries: Priceless
All numbers are made up. We don't know the specific details how many hours he spent on defending and how many hours the prosecutors used to present the evidence - Knowing that e*Bay's lawyers ARE $500/hr dudes....I'm pretty sure that he's not running towards the bank as a happy man when he gets out of jail.
Since this is a criminal charge....Anyone ever thought if eBay would press for a civil proceeding of reputation, violation of their TOS etc. and get the last penny out of Mr. Kennedy?
So what will happen to those that used his service? I am sure all the users that signed up to it have had their names revealed by the computers that got taken away. Will they go after those people once this case has been resolved?
It was reported that eBay are looking through these buyers of Saucekit (his client-list got seized and was available to the FBI) and comparing them to affiliates.
I could imagine when eBay is done with this they'll either raise their hands in victory and go, look at us - don't fcuk with us! OR they'll keep low profile and start recollecting all the money they paid out to affiliates - going to be hard though, unless that individual person lynched them for a lot of figures!
since he plead guilty there was obviously some kind of deal made. why else would someone plead guilty? so for everyone that was a customer you better be shitting your pants since you were sold out. i feel bad for everyone. i think the whole thing is bullshit considering cs'ing has never been established as "illegal" before.
sure, the term "cookie stuffing" hasn't been coined as illegal but the intent, usage, and what it does is illegal. forcing affiliate cookies onto someones computer without their consent and reaping monetary gains from it is outright fraud and is illegal. whenever someone goes to your site and clicks on for e.g. a product on ebay they automatically get your aff cookie in their browser so the affiliate gets credit for that purchase. sure thats totally legit, but when someone is just browsing around gets a cookie forced on them, makes a purchase and you get credit for it that you no way, shape or form earned by them clicking on a link that intentionally sends them to a product and puts the cookie onto their computer, you mine as well just go over and steal some money out of ebay's wallet because thats basically what your doing. stealing money offline isn't tolerated by the law and neither is it online. government agencies have undercover operations online looking for fraud in large scales just as they do offline hence how chris aka biglevel as he used to be known here got busted. im not against any of that as ive done my fair share of unlegit shit myself, im just saying.
The deals with a Federal prosecutor do not have to be honored by a Federal judge but pleading guilty can lower your sentence time based upon a point system in place that they use to sentence you. Odds are that he'll go to a Federal Camp as opposed to a Federal prison... both suck, just one sucks less than the other.
yea he was charging around 500$ a month for his program and had hundreds of users. He just got too greedy. personally if i was him, i would have just done the coockie stuffing myself and kept it all away from the public. But in the end greed it what gets you cought
wonder if someone turned him in.
something to consider....
wow....some of you being to harsh...I feel bad for the guy, is a raw deal, and I don't wish it on anyone.
I feel bad for him too. If he gave you a free copy of that program, how many of you really would have said, no thanks? I bet most of us would have used it and we'd all be in trouble like him. He's just like the rest of us except he did it on a large scale, was very successful and got caught.
Like previous posters have said, use blackhat for traffic anything else is too risky. I've been thinking about iframing cpa's but i'd have to have an affiliate network get me for stealing, and thats essentially what it is.
And as I've suggested before, as night follows day, even though there may be 9,000 BH techniques or whatever, who's to stop energetic big guys from getting the courts or bureaucracies to characterize ALL BH techniques as criminal 'fraud'? Blanking the referrer, using multiple accounts, proxies, et al can each be slammed as misrepresentation depending on your POV. And it's really a selective slamming of the little guys---script cookies, flash cookies and the like are dropped on visitors by the big sites all the time without their knowledge or consent. It's only when us small IMers did it to THEM that the hammer comes down.
Don't fuck with companies with a lot influence and money.
Actually, I think his cellmate will be doing that 'stuffing'... lol
Btw, here's the PDF of the Federal Complaint with references back to BHW: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2010/02/cookies.pdf
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