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*Reminder* EU and UK VATMOSS EU VAT changes from Jan 01 2015

Discussion in 'Business & Tax Advice' started by Asif WILSON Khan, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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  2. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Just found this Wordpress Plugin that may be of use:

    https://wordpress.org/plugins/eu-vat-redirect/

    Also this guide might be of interest to some people, a little basic:
    VAT Victory
     
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  3. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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  4. FutureProofSeo

    FutureProofSeo Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member UnGagged Attendee

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    This will be fun to deal with...

    That part about being on a train was ridiculous! So you have to take the VAT rate of where they started their journey, meaning ip based redirections are invalid.
     
  5. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Yeah, looks like a complete nightmare.
     
  6. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    [h=1]More than 200 small firms quit within days of new European VAT rules originally aimed at curbing tax dodging by web giants[/h]
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/sm...lly-aimed-curbing-tax-dodging-web-giants.html
     
  7. Avid Learner

    Avid Learner Regular Member

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    Law of unintended consequences. Or, perhaps, it was intended, by the companies that backed the legislation/politicians that came up with this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
  8. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi Power Member

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    How are they going to be enforcing VAT collection on digital products sold by a non-eu based business?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  9. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    As I understand it, it doesn't matter where the business is based, if they sell to an EU customer then they are supposed to collect the VAT.

    It is ridiculous.
     
  10. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi Power Member

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    Its completely pointless to even attempt to make them, no one from outside the EU is going to comply unless they have a physical location in the EU.
     
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  11. tony_d

    tony_d Elite Member

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    I think you may be mistaken... I'm rather certain you need to be an EU participant for this to apply. To register for the new centralized system (VAT MOSS), you need a VAT number within the EU.

    (Further expanding on that, though irrelevant as it may be - a jurisdiction doesn't have the capacity to make laws that govern entities outside that jurisdiction... so if the Polish govt made a law saying that I need to shit only between 3pm and 5pm, I'd laugh, because I've never even been to Poland).

    Key points;
    - it only applies to CONSUMER sales (if you're selling SEO, or anything, to a business, it doesn't apply)
    - it only applies to businesses that already are, or ought to be, an EU VAT participant

    - a simple workaround for current VAT participants is to incorporate offshore, and bill all sales from there, and therefore not be required to either collect or pay VAT in the EU

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2016
  12. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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  13. Avid Learner

    Avid Learner Regular Member

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    I had the same question. After reading W130SN's link to onemanbandaccounting, it appears that what is likely to "eventually" happen will be collection enforcement via the payment processors.

    She advocates lobbying your local governments (including non-EU) to put pressure on the EU to make this so.

    Still, one wonders how they would be able to enforce this on business located outside the EU?

    Three things come to mind for many of us outside the EU: 1) Cost of enforcement - rendering it not worth going after small value sales; 2) Maturity of tools - This is new, so their mechanisms for enforcement are likely immature, thus, they'd likely be targeting only the larger transactions for the near future; 3) Jurisdictional boundaries - Ability to bring sanctions across jurisdictional boundaries.

    Others here who have been IMing for a while might have a better feel for the size of risk this is to have an impact on current business in the EU for those in non-EU countries.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
  14. I-marketer

    I-marketer Regular Member

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    By platoo of euro-bureaucrats.
    Reading all the hype about 'hammering new tax rules', but does anyone comply?
     
  15. fatboy

    fatboy Elite Member

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    Another confusing law that will do nothing but trip up businessmen in the EU, get them in trouble and then make more money come to the HMRC in the form of fines.

    Disgusting, especially if you are not VAT registered in the first place!
     
  16. Asif WILSON Khan

    Asif WILSON Khan Executive VIP Premium Member

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    Yeah, it was designed to close the loopholes that the big online giants use to dodge tax, but it is going to hit SME's hardest.
    Crazy.
     
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  17. fatboy

    fatboy Elite Member

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    Thats the UK way look for a way of closing loopholes due to the big corporations that do all they can to dodge it and then stiff the little guy.

    Just goes to show what state this country is in if it needs to grab extra pennies from anyone in the world. Down on its knees and this Government is trying to get every penny out of people. Doesn't matter if its Tory, Labour, UKIP, Green or Looney, they are only there to feather their nests and screw the little guy.

    However, I am all ranted out for today.
     
  18. Capo Dei Capi

    Capo Dei Capi Power Member

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    They may even force credit card companies to do the collection, since a payment processor could decide not to collect it if the payment processor isn't located in the EU.
     
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  19. minimo88

    minimo88 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    How does this affect fiverr?
     
  20. tony_d

    tony_d Elite Member

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    Theres so much directly conflicting information. The 'experts', in several different papers that I've skimmed over all have said that it applies only to B2C transactions. What you posted clearly says that it also applies to B2B transactions.

    So my plan: do nothing, and wait for the dust to settle.

    I agree with your logic, but if you think about the implementation, its just not going to happen.

    It would mean sending, as part of transaction data, not just the CC details and amount, but ALSO a breakdown of how much is VAT, where the customer is CURRENTLY located, whether the base transaction amount is inc or ex VAT, etc.

    It would literally more than double the workload of Visa/MC.
    They'll just say no.

    It is indeed a very, very poorly designed law, with an implementation that not only fails to deliver the original aim, but also significantly inconveniences just about everyone else.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2015