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Redtide's Karma Thread - A Journey to Help Newbs Find PPC to CPA Profitability

Discussion in 'My Journey Discussions' started by redtide1969, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. redtide1969

    redtide1969 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    So it's been awhile since I've posted a new thread and I thought I would start this one to pay things forward to the newer members. This is for those of you actually here at BHW for the right reasons, as opposed to some who are only posting to leach, troll, scam, or spam. << If that's you, get lost you fu*k because PPC to CPA takes actual work, time, a shitload of determination, and a willingness to lose money in order to make money. <<should have probably bolded that last part.

    With that said, it's also shocking how much money can be made when you've paid your dues testing. It can't be over emphasized enough that when people say tracking every angle (LP copy, ad copy, keyword match type variations, etc) is everything in this game, it's all true. It's about bankrolling your CPA earnings back into your spend to get your campaigns to eventually turn a consistently high profit...day in and day out profit. As long as your current PPC platform doesn't get a hair up it's ass and ban your account for no reason (cough Goog, Bing,) you can be very "golden" for a long period of time based on that initial work/spend you put into optimizing the campaign.

    The whole point of PPC is getting over the spend phase, weeding down the non-converting keywords, and kind of like a pan of gold after panning it, you're left with just the golden, consistently high converting keywords. At a fraction of the spend it cost you during that initial testing. Once you're left with just a handful of high converting, low cost keywords, that's when PPC becomes amazing profit margin-wise, and all of the spend becomes a moot point because you make that initial spend back so quickly once it's optimized.

    When getting a campaign started for testing, it definitely takes money to make money...and balls of steel at times in order to be willing to risk the money needed to properly test a new campaign. When I say properly test, I mean starting out with as big of a pool of keywords/targets for your niche that you can afford to spend. The bigger your pool of keywords you start with, the better chance of finding the high converting, low cost keywords quickly.

    Anyway, I'm posting to offer some help with PPC to CPA if you want it, as well as help newer members with affiliate marketing in general. One thing I want to make clear though is that I won't answer any questions that I feel could jeopardize my campaigns, bring competition to me, my keywords, and my niches. If you ask anything too personal to my specific campaigns, I may not answer. I also don't like to talk about my specific PPC platforms of choice. Besides that, I'm willing to answer questions where I can and offer quite a few tips and tricks as we get the conversation going.

    I called this a karma thread because I believe in it, and finally have the time to post something like this. I started my IM life here at BHW lurking around in 2008, destitute and desperate after losing my job, so I owe everything to this forum and the people who were active when the forum started. I don't like to talk numbers but I will say that PPC to CPA has allowed me to buy a new 5-br home, a beastly little 503hp IS-F sedan, and most importantly, financial security for my family.

    Lastly, I don't want to sit and use this thread as a discussion for creating multiple accounts after having accounts banned from the PPC majors. Those of you who remember my old AC thread would remember it got pretty out of control and I got slapped with a lawsuit by AC for the methods we were using. I'm not looking to have that happen again for the sake of helping random forum members out lol. I do remember what it was like when I first started here at BHW though so if I can help someone else who is here to actually put in hard work for their living, it's all good. Also, I'm not looking for thanks and rep as I'm not a member here in order to sell anything.

    Take care all, peace and prosper

    :farmer: :canabis: :thumb:
     
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    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  2. .:mAestro:.

    .:mAestro:. Regular Member

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    I will start with simple question, before I ask something else:

    can you please write down all PPC platforms you know about?
     
  3. kool121

    kool121 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    @RedTide, Your previous thread on PPC was very informative, looking forward to know more on ppc this time.
     
  4. redtide1969

    redtide1969 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    @Maestro - There's actually a really good thread in the PPC subforum that lists every PPC platform known to man. There was quite a few that I hadn't even heard of.

    Maybe someone has a link to it?

    @kool, I'm glad they helped. I'll try to find and link those old threads tomorrow since I already covered some of the basics there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  5. gdotcom

    gdotcom Newbie

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    Subbed. Impressive intro...
     
  6. innozemec

    innozemec Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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  7. zenlagor

    zenlagor Regular Member

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    I'm here to learn about PPC to CPA, bookmarking the thread. I will try find your old thread too so I can try get myself up to speed. Thanks for taking time to give back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  8. extreme90

    extreme90 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Sounds cool and it deals with my niche, subscribed, let's see how it goes. :)
     
  9. Licious

    Licious Registered Member

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    Solid stuff, Subscribed!
     
  10. .:mAestro:.

    .:mAestro:. Regular Member

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    Didn't know about that thread. I assume this is it:
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...t-advertising-platforms-ppc-ppv-cpm-more.html

    If I'm wrong, please post right link.

    I'm gonna now read your other thread and some posts before I ask new questions.
     
  11. aldoraine

    aldoraine Regular Member

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    I'm up for this journey. I have been wanting to learn PPC since I started IM. Also, teaching others motivates and helps the teacher refine their skills. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
     
  12. yogi31286

    yogi31286 Elite Member

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    even i want to use PPC but only after learning.. any advise on guides of PPC or ebook OP?
     
  13. aldoraine

    aldoraine Regular Member

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    I read that Google has a good guide to PPC. It breaks down everything even keyword research. Ill try to find it for you.
     
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  14. prescribed

    prescribed Newbie

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    You found the right time to start this thread. I was just looking to get into PPC.

    My first question:

    1)I heard Google hits marketers with landing pages that has affiliate links on it with at quality score of 0/10. Those who direct link get their account disabled almost immediately. While with Bing, its almost the same, but I heard they are more lenient. I've found affiliate links on Bing yesterday, so I think they are less strict.

    How do you go about getting landing pages with affiliate links run on Bing & Google?

    2) Some advertisers on CPA networks already run their own PPC campaign, while at the same time they have their sites running on Affiliate Networks. I heard on Perry Marshall's book that Google only wants 1 advertiser per website, not hundreds or thousands. What are your experience on campaigns where there are competition promoting the same website but obviously for different keywords?

    Do Google slap the late comers with high CPC, or do they try to figure out the real owner and get rid of the other advertisers?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  15. prescribed

    prescribed Newbie

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    This thread had a promising start.
     
  16. abhi007

    abhi007 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good to see you back Bryan....
     
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  17. abhi007

    abhi007 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Not had it has a promising start :)
     
  18. sogeking

    sogeking Power Member

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    innnnnnnnn. want to try ppc but i feel like you have to spent one mil testing just to make one dollar profit
     
  19. redtide1969

    redtide1969 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    @zenlagor and Kool - Here's the thread where I talked about breaking down campaigns in detail - http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/cpa/280970-how-turn-ppc-cpa-campaigns-consistently-profitable.html

    @ extreme90 - Cool to have you involved in the discussion. That's part of the reason I started this thread, the constant monitoring/stat reading/optimization of campaigns can be pretty solitary at times so I was hoping to draw out some experienced advertisers to throw strategies around with too. It's a fine line we walk in not "sharing too much" in this but it would be cool to toss general strategies around with you.

    @ Maestro - Yes, I believe that's the one.

    @prescribed - They can and do hit marketers with low quality scores for affiliate links on their LP's. I also know people running both Adwords and Bing who aren't slapped for it and have been running in the same long-term accounts for years. The 3 majors, Goog, Bing and FB are pretty inconsistent from advertiser to advertiser. Preferential treatment for long-term/high spend advertisers? I personally think so, but that's how PPC with the 3 majors is, you're also always second guessing what is and isn't allowed because of how generalized their policies can be.

    Bing is still less strict than Goog but Bing are catching up pretty fast with their over the top/generalized policies and Goog like bans. In my personal accts I've had no problem when I test a campaign by direct-linking. They used to allow it without an issue, but considering how completely unpredictable Bing's platform can be, that's not to say you wouldn't have an issue. It gets back to each person's account being eyed differently by their algorithm/editors.

    I had a friend who had his Bing account shutdown by their algorithm (not an actual editor) for promoting Payday Loans, while my account went untouched running the same offers. At the time, we were both spending over 6 figures a year in our accounts when he was shutdown, and I wasn't. Totally random BS. He did get the account back but lost revenue for 3 weeks while he pleaded with their inept support staff.

    As far as guaranteeing your account won't be slapped for running affiliate links, it starts to involve cloaking. The PPC section of this forum is pretty quiet because people in general don't like to talk about blackhatting the 3 majors on a high traffic forum/indexed in Goog and Bing. If someone else wants to explain the process, that's cool, but I'll step aside.

    @sogeking - You can start with as little as $10-100 if you wanted, the thing is, to start a PPC campaign with the best chance of success, you need to test as many keyword combinations as possible. The more a person is willing to invest in a campaign's initial testing spend, the better their chance of turning long-term profit with it.


    @ everyone - I was thinking about how I wanted to approach this thread to give it the best chance of actually helping people here. Keep in mind it's nearly impossible for me to think of all of the little things I've taught myself since I started doing this, and just dump it out there to you guys. I basically need the questions and discussion to flow so it triggers my half-fried brain to remember things. I'm not a coach or wannabe guru of any sort, so if the interest is there I can share quite a bit of info that would save you money in wasted testing/bad strategies/good strategies etc, as you get started. but the interest would have to be there. PPC is def. not for everyone.

    To do my part in keeping the discussion going, each time I post I'll post up at least 1 important aspect of PPC/CPA and go into as much detail as I can, or feel it needs. If anyone can add to the things I talk about I'm all for it and welcome the discussion.

    Also, to clarify who I intended this thread for...if you're a newb to BHW in general and haven't thought about needing some sort of testing budget with PPC to CPA, this thread is not intended for you. PPC stands for pay per click which means you're paying for traffic. It's highly targeted, high profit traffic...but your success can be, and usually is, directly related to your budget when testing a new campaign. So a person does have to pay to play.

    I started this thread to help people who have been BHW members/lurkers for awhile, who know how Internet Marketing generally works, and had wanted to try PPC. Coming from other low cost, lower profit threshold methods, PPC takes pretty massive commitment on the persons part. On one end, you HAVE to realize you're going to lose some money when initially testing any campaign, and it can and will be hard at first. That's one of the aspects that can test the hell out of your commitment, BUT, on the other end, realize that if you have the patience/commitment and learn how to correctly reinvest your incoming CPA earnings back into covering your ad spend, you have a good chance of becoming a mutli-millionaire as you continue the same exact process to build/test/add new campaigns to your existing campaigns.

    That's the power of PPC, and the reality of it. When a campaign is optimized down like I was talking about in that other thread I pasted, and it's done right, the money that you're spending can fairly quickly become a non-issue.

    You're just rolling money over constantly from your CPA network's payments to cover the spend. Weekly payments are def. helpful with PPC to CPA, but it's still possible to make bi-weekly payments work as far as keeping your spend covered while you continue the all important optimizing down of the campaign. When I speak of optimize down, I mean get rid of the non-converting keywords, adjust your ad positions to find the highest converting positions for the keywords that do convert, and tweak your LP copy to keep the highest CTR (click-through rate) possible,etc.)

    Anyway, it becomes second nature fairly soon, or should anyway. The beauty of it is that so much of the campaign becomes pure profit as time goes on that the spend becomes fairly incidental compared to other things like advertiser shaving, LP/server downtimes, advertiser keyword restrictions, ppc trademark restrictions etc. I'll talk about some of those things later in the thread if you guys want. Anyway to finish my point, getting your campaign there is where that commitment comes in and is what being willing to invest the time/money into PPC is all about. The end goal has a good chance of being pretty sweet when it's done right.

    When I first started a campaign after learning the basics from Perry Marshal's guide, I went in with a mindset knowing that most of the top dogs of Internet Marketing are making their money in PPC. All of the largest Corporations in the world are PPC advertisers because they make billions per year with it, and just thinking about that drove me to be willing to keep testing and reinvesting the CPA earnings into those first campaigns. If you're seeing yourself having that same kind of commitment to succeed with this, and feel like you're willing to pay your dues with the initial keyword/LP/Ad copy/Ad position testing that's needed, that's who I'm wanting to help with this tread.

    Next time I post up I'll talk about the things you can do to save money on your initial testing when getting started.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
  20. AhMen

    AhMen Newbie

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    good stuff man. I've read through your posts and have a few questions:

    1. When you test a campaign on your testing account instead of your actual account, aren't you going to drop some keywords that would be profitable on your actual account that aren't profitable because of the higher CPC?

    2. How do you balance your campaign between having a good CTR and only having people that will turn into a lead clicking on your ad when you are using a broad phrase? I know that you should make an ad as specific as possible so that people who won't convert won't click on your ad, but you also want to get a good CTR for a lower CPC.

    3. What hosting would you recommend for someone getting ~200 clicks per day?

    4. How should a newbie learn how to write an ad and landing page? Could you go over what makes a good ad/landing page?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013