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Penalized or Not Penalized?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by jennyxzxz, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. jennyxzxz

    jennyxzxz Junior Member

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    Hi,

    I will explain the situation i am in for trying to rank a local website.

    Situation:
    The position for my main kw is around 70+ - 100 around 3-4 months ago. Then i started to disavow my links (that i thought is spammy) and remove some links (total not more than 100 links). After around 1-2 months, my position for my main kw dropped to around 150+.
    Currently, for my main kw, i don't see it anymore, i searched all the pages, till page 31. No sign of my site at all.

    During these months, i have been adding more citations, directories to this site. I have also added some articles targeting other kws (around 4-5 kws) where it started ranking at around 80 to 100+ pos.

    Questions:
    1)So now my main kw is not ranking at all. Is it due to the disavow that i have submitted? Or my backlinks is not enough?

    2)Or is my site penalized (algorithm)?
    *There is no manual penalty warning ,etc. sent to my webmaster account.

    3)Should i remove the disavow file that i have submitted? and continue building more links?

    4)I am really confuse as i saw a website (created on march 2015) ranking at around page 3 with only less than 100 backlinks checked from ahrefs, most were local ads links, etc. But my site has been around for at least 2 years alr.. Been first page before (last year) and then dropped all the way down.. I am trying to rank it back again.

    As i currently plan to build web 2.0s and PBN for this local site.. I am worried that those efforts and money will be wasted if this site is already "Penalized"...

    Any advice guys?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  2. and5rey

    and5rey Regular Member

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    Not sure if your website is penalized or not, but the best advice that I can give you is to start a new website. It can be really difficult and even impossible to revoke a Google penalty.

    I'm in a similar situation like you - I have a website that I'm trying to recover from a penalty already for 2 years (I have done everything, disavowed links, added new quality content, etc.), but nothing has helped. The guys here on BHW advised me to start a new website, so I'm now working on a new website.
     
  3. houseman

    houseman Registered Member

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    I think you have submitted to disavow so it may take some time to rank just wait for 2-3 months.I have heard it may take more time.
     
  4. jennyxzxz

    jennyxzxz Junior Member

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    Hi, What penalty are you recovering? Manual Penalty? Or Algorithm penalty? Is your new website now ranking or?
     
  5. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED

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    Looks like you fell into the whitehat SEO pothole.

    Learn REAL seo, blackhat SEO and you will rank whatever you want in 1-2 months.

    It looks like your site lost it rankings because you disavowed the links.

    Please remember this, NO link is spam. Yes no link is spam.

    Its only spam if you have a large amount of that one type of link.

    I would remove the disavow file.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  6. jennyxzxz

    jennyxzxz Junior Member

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    Hi, is it possible if you elaborate more on "whitehat SEO pothole"?

    I have removed the disavow file (4 urls and 122 domains).. I feel really stupid now to disavow those links... Hais..

    So is my site penalized? Can i continue for this website?

    I am trying to learn SEO... but have a hard time starting..

    What you mean by REAL seo? Any useful resources that you can gladly provide me with?
    Thanks :)
     
  7. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED

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    By whitehat SEO I mean the stupid and imo useless links like citations and directory links.

    Dont get me wrong they are good for diversification but for pure link juice and ranking power they are useless.

    For ranking power you need strong PBN links, web 2.0s with xx,xxx - xxx,xxx links 3 tiers deep, and best of all profile links with thousands of spam links.

    These links pass massive link juice and WILL rank your your site without a doubt.

    IMO even guest post are useless, why? Because you get a empty link, yes the domain has 80 DA but what link juice does the page where your link is have? NOTHING! :)

    You see?

    No your site is not penalized, it looks like when you disavowed the links you lost some link juice and your ranking dropped.

    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/white-hat-seo/776323-search-engine-optimization-art-bullshit-what-expect-search-engine-optimization.html#post8093697
     
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  8. lion1978

    lion1978 Junior Member

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    I agree with asap1 though I would say that guest post is a good thing for diversification, but the real power is from web2.0 andPBN's if you know how to set them up propperly and throw in social signals as well and you should rank fast enough.
    Also I would divresify the link tiers as well just to make everything look more natural, and don't forget to link out to authority pages/sites in either the nice or local area from the web2.0's and PBN's as well
     
  9. and5rey

    and5rey Regular Member

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    No, there was not any manual action in my Webmaster Tools account. My website was probably penalized by both Penguin and Panda, but I'm not 100% sure. And my new website is not ranking yet, as I've not started building links yet, but will be starting soon.
     
  10. jennyxzxz

    jennyxzxz Junior Member

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    I see... Can we discuss together or something? wanna know more about yours..


    Any advice from others too?
     
  11. SainaGroup

    SainaGroup Regular Member

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    I agree with asap1 too , it looks like when you disavowed the links you lost some link juice and your ranking dropped. just this .

    And for this , you should test it to know , build web 2.0s and PBN posts for your site to see you should work on it or you should forget it .
     
  12. classybabe

    classybabe Regular Member

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    Most likely the disavowed linsk were actually helping and you removed them. I would also recommend starting a new site if you can otherwise try point some good links at it and see if there's any improvement.
     
  13. and5rey

    and5rey Regular Member

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    You can send me a PM if you want.
     
  14. BreaknBrix

    BreaknBrix Power Member

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    Do that for a client in the real world and you can get sued.

    OP, I have no idea why on Earth you'd submit a disavow. You clearly are very very confused. And doing SEO proper for a local business is confusing. But after you do it for a few years and test enough, you realize what works and what doesn't.

    Sending an onslaught of spam barely worked back in early 2014. You might grab the 1st page, or grab #1 rankings for a few keywords, but most the experimental sites I did that way all were gone in less than 6 months. The longest one ever lasted was 10 months.

    One of the best ways to rank in local is by having MONEY. You really have to evaluate how much your industry is worth. The industries I'm in are all 7 fig / yr industries. So I know my competitors are willing to spend 5 figs a month just on SEO. That doesn't mean I do. It doesn't mean I started that way. But the way I started was by using SMART, EFFECTIVE, EFFICIENT >>>MARKETING.

    I started with G local, ranked pretty quickly in a small proximity but wasn't getting calls. When you're a new face on the block with no reviews you're not getting much traffic. So I started using smarter techniques I've wrote in your other threads. Like parasite blasting geo-targeted YT videos WITHOUT linking in the description. I only linked in annotations and put the number and site name in the description (nonlinkable).

    The benefit with videos is if you can sell well enough, you can overcome the fact you have no reputation online. You can also use other parasites (always use VSLs) to do this but do not direct link to your site if you're spamming these properties and wanna avoid penalties.

    Other than that, there's no other advice I have for you. Cause you're clearly not listening. I keep telling you that local sites NEED FUNNELS. When you are OCD about ranking your site. Completely 1 dimensional. You gotta make money before you really start to take organic rankings seriously. And you do that through smart, cheap, efficient marketing. There are tons of ways to drive targeted traffic other than SEO, without blowing a fortune, just to get money coming in to properly invest into ranking your site.

    Right now, I seriously recommend you forget about SEO and just learning basic marketing. Judging by the questions you keep asking and the things you keep doing you just don't sound like you're getting it.

    -BB
     
  15. jennyxzxz

    jennyxzxz Junior Member

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    Hi BB, I have read all your replies on my thread seriously and taken your advices seriously too. I know that reviews helps alot but TBH, in a real life situation for our niche, it's hard to get reviews from our customers. I mean example for plumbing, it's hard to get customer reviews after you finish the job. I am not saying it's not impossible but I feel the effort is not worth currently as I could have use these times on other seo practices.. I hope you can understand.

    For ranking YouTube videos, I am actually trying to create a nice videos for our business that could attract customer and not cresting a video for the sake of ranking..

    As I hope that I could combine other seo practices at the same time for maximum effects.

    The reason why you feel that I am OCD in ranking my site is because since the past year, I have seen most of my competitors engaging local seo company and they are ranking using PBN, and sort of contextual links, blog comments, forum profiles etc. Some even ranking well after 2-3 years with those obvious spam tier 1 links.
    I am thinking that if I engage local seo and they do the similar things on my site, I rather I would do my seo myself. Hence I start cresting Web 2.0 myself and PBN at a later stage..

    TBH, I felt quite hurt when you ask me to give up on SEO and learn basic marketing instead. I mean... I know you may be an expert in ranking local site with lots of experiences. But everyone including me is learning everyday. I ask noob or stupid questions(in your POV) because I want to learn.. I want to rank my website myself.. so i tend to ask questions to clear some doubts.. i know those are stupid or noob or unsuccessful ranking questions.. but i just hope i am in the right way in ranking my site.. It just damn frustrated when you see your competitors ranking with spam contextual links , forum profile, blog comments for the past 2 years...
     
  16. lion1978

    lion1978 Junior Member

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    This is when you hit up fivrr, order a few gis to make reviews.
     
  17. bmminc

    bmminc Regular Member

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    Lol how is it hard to get a review from a customer you did a good job for? That is the easiest thing in the world.
    Hand them a card after you finished with their receipt.

    "Let us know how we did!" Go XXXX to leave a review.
    Send out an e-mail. "Thank you for your business, it was a pleasure. Please leave us some feedback so we can continue to improve"

    Just ASK. lol

    When you start out local you need to be mindful of SEO, but realize that in the beginning you need to focus on just "how do I get customers?".
    Also, idk wtf the guy up there was saying about not needing citations and directory listings and instead blasting your site with GSA.

    For local sites that is a one way ticket to getting your ass pounded by Google.

    Do you have regular updated content on your local site?
    Do you post regular blog posts?
    Is your site Geo-targeted with Geo Meta?
    Does each page have a unique title that is geo-targeted?
    Have you done keyword research?
    Are people actually searching for your keywords?
    You have way more than 1 keyword right?
    Do you even have a google places listing?
    Is your NAP consistent on everything?
    Is your physical location near other locations with services like yours? (Yes this makes a difference!)
    Can you get your business listed on any other local sites?
    Can you give a small donation to a local organization for a listing on their site or flyers?
    Have you checked out local Facebook groups?
    Do you have a Facebook page? Do you update this regularly?
    Have you checked out local CL posts?
    Have you looked into trading services with other local businesses?

    There is a LOT more to local SEO than just "hey my competitor has some links on site X". No. Stop it.
    Citations don't need a backlink to your site to be recognized by google. Plus there is so much more that goes into local SEO. You really shouldn't build ANY links to your local site until you have been working on everything else for a good while IMO.

    I don't know how big your area is, but here is food for thought:
    I rank #2 locally for many of my keywords. I didn't build a single link. I get almost no business from the SERPS. This is because of my area's search volume. Not many businesses around here are looking up local marketing terms. Therefore, i'm not going to invest everything I own trying to get to rank #1.
    I know how to get customers, so I spend my time doing that. The key for most local businesses is not being afraid to go AFTER business.

    4 days ago I drove by a local organization building. They had their website shown on their sign outside. I stopped to get some food down the road and looked up their site. It sucked. I sent a personal e-mail to the owner. I made it friendly and conversational.
    I just had a meeting with her yesterday. We will likely get the business.

    More than that, we are giving her a crazy good price on designing her site because she is able to put our name on brochures and flyers that I know a lot of other business owners will see. Business owners with money.

    I honestly would have done her site for free because the amount we will make in the advertising she will be doing for us, and the word of mouth will be more than worth it.

    The point to the story is, don't focus only on ranking your site. More than that..don't try to blast it with links. This forum has SO much information that will help you with local SEO. However you have to know when doing local SEO is worth it!

    I have told some clients flat out, getting ranked in Google for your particular business will get some customers, but it won't be the most effective way to get business. People just aren't searching for it.
    We went out and struck a deal with the guy who owns all the ad benches around town. Bought him lunch, told a few jokes, and bam, our business got 75% off his price to put our ad up, and for our clients we get 50% off, and can upsale off that for profit.

    You have to think outside the box man!

    Stop wasting your time with blasting links and shit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  18. jennyxzxz

    jennyxzxz Junior Member

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    Yes.. but we need get clients first.. without clients we don't even have the chance to ask for feedback.. We were aiming for google SERP (as local pack seems impossible to target as most have exact match kw domain dominating) to gain clients which is proven as we had ranked last year before and have good result. And google is probably the most ROI as compared to other offline marketing for our country.

    1 & 2- We are using a static page, it would be weird if there is blog post in our home page. But we do have an articles pages for updated content.
    3/4/5/6/7/8/9 - Yes
    10- In our physical locations , yes there is same service similar to us.
    11- Yes- have try to listed in our local sites - by spying competitors.
    12 - Nope, ROI is damn low in our country. They charge a very huge fees.
    13/14/15- Yes.
    16- Nope.. We don't think it would work in our country.


    Our country and area is small which makes the competition tough for our kw. where almost page 1 & 2 competiors are all engaging local seo company to do seo for them. But some are ranking for 2-3 years even having tier 1 spammy links such as forum profiles,blog comments, contextial links and also PBNs. Some even rank for around 3 years until now using PBN alone if i am not wrong..

    Hence, it would be impossible to rank without building any links for our industry and country. and our search volume is considered high (around 5000/month) with high competition.



    lWe have tried ranking before, so we know it's worth it to rank in SERP and we don't think that solely using local seo approach without any PBNs, etc. would rank our site... as almost all our competitors are using it.. What's opinion in it?
     
  19. lion1978

    lion1978 Junior Member

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    If you are afraid of getting sued for violating google guidelines you shouldn't be in seo, since even "white hat" seo is violating the guidelines, Big G has made it very clear time and time again ANY AND ALL atempts to manipulate the serps is frowned upon by google.
    so even the white hat seo's that sends me emails on a dayli basis begging me to link out totheir clients, who are direct compettitors of mine and therefore going after my customers are violating the guidelines by begging for that link, only thy made it a lot easier to prove that they buy links to rank their clients, therefore leaving their clients in a vunarable position, where their site could be deindexed by Big G, the moment someone submits a removal request and provide big G with a copy of the email they sent asking/begging to buy a link.
     
  20. SuperLinks

    SuperLinks Elite Member

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    Your site was never ranking well to begin with, that far back and your practically in the supplemental index. Bouncing from page 10 to page 20 doesn't matter, you aren't getting SEO traffic to begin with.

    Usually I'd say there could well be a problem with links, after seeing how far back you were you don't have enough links to begin with. You need more links to begin with.