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PBN problem

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by mqsss, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. mqsss

    mqsss Regular Member

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    I've setup my own PBN of 10 sites about 2 months ago. All domains have good metrics and all of them are relevant to my niche. I have published about 10 unique articles on each and I have really made them look like moneysites. FB fanpages, favicons, headers, custom design, everything. Even my competition in this niche is posting blog comments on my PBN because they don't know it's a PBN. I link to several other relevant sites, I have blogrolls, I have really put my effort into this PBN. All PBN sites were indexed really quickly and they are all ranking on 1st page for a brand name. All of them have a great link profile and they are all diversified in the every possible way - different registrars, different hosting of course... I have used naked urls as anchors and several generic anchors, so this shouldn't be an issue.

    I have been adding about 1 link to my moneysite per week. The problem is that rankings are dropping for the past month now. They are dropping steadily from page 2-3 to pages 4-5. I really don't know what could be the issue here. My moneysite is more than 6 months old, it has some other relevant backlinks as well.

    I have used the same approach on some of my other sites about a year ago and they are still dominating the niche more or less and I don't remember seeing such a steady drop in rankings before they went up on page 1 of SERP.

    A month ago I also added more affiliate links on every important page which is going down in SERPs right now. Could this be the issue? 1200 words of content. I had 8 affiliate links on that page before, and now I have doubled that on almost every article. I have added about 7 PBN links in the past month and a half.

    I'll wait for a bit longer to see what happens, rankings are still jumping up and down, but now I got paranoid because I'm reading that Google dance only lasts for about a week. And I'm angry because I'm just floating on a level where I always wanted to be, but now I want more of it. And because rankings are dancing around so much, I'm afraid of linking to other moneysites from the same PBN.

    There are only 2 possible ways from here on. 1: Rankings will continue to dance and I'll explode to pages 1-2 after it's all set, and 2: This site and PBN will go to hell. Maybe I'm just too paranoid. :D
     
  2. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    Sounds like you are losing links somewhere. Im sure the problem is not your PBN.

    Check your old links and see how many are still there. Also make the affiliate links nofollow.

    I did this on my site and my rankings went up.

    Also remove every link you don't NEED. Why?

    Because you lose link juice for every internal and external link.

    I even remove the tags and category links, the author link, and the date link.

    Fix all these leaks and you will rank better.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  3. terrycody

    terrycody Supreme Member

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    for the affiliate links, i have read the nichepursuit site from spencer hawks, he got a similar penalty as you in the last year i think?

    maybe you add too many affiliate links per page, or maybe not, just my 2 cents, hope you solve this issue.
     
  4. LeanLow

    LeanLow Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    If those PBN domains were used as PBNs in the past before you acquired them, that could be the reason.
     
  5. mqsss

    mqsss Regular Member

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    Well all affiliate links are nofollow and I haven't lost any links in the past 2 months for sure. There weren't many of them, so I can track them all. Internal links are put together properly - I'm using the same silo structure as I have on my top site that's making 3k+ per month in quite a competitive niche.

    An interesting fact is that I have made 2 PBN sites about 4 months ago and I have linked to a specific article on my moneysite from them. This article is targeting as competitive KWs as other articles, and it's ranked on page 1 for the most important variations of that KW and hasn't dropped positions. Other subpages have dropped. My best site was also not getting anywhere when I added 10 PBN links to it and I had to wait 3-4 months for it to start climbing since I have added those links, and then it has reached the top of everything in another 2 months.

    @Terrycody: I have read that also, but I haven't experienced such a big drop as he did.

    @LeanLow: No they weren't. I only picked the most related domains that had good content on them. I didn't use domains like "...voteformrbush..." or "...xbox12321fans.com..." for linking to a site promoting nail clippers. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  6. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    Well that leaves the affiliate links.

    You said you doubled the amount of affiliate links and that doubled the amount of link juice lost.

    Even if you put nofollow tags google still counts it as and OBL and link juice will be lost.

    I would revert the changes.
     
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  7. Penumbra

    Penumbra Power Member

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    What about anchors?
     
  8. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Super Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    asap1 is giving some sound advice that you want to consider and the other thing I would be doing, if you are not, is to link to your PBN sites as well as do some other SEO to your target sites.

    The SEO does not have to be heavy stuff but something other than "just PBN" links to give Google something else to consider when evaluating your sites... BUT I would certainly be doing what asap1 is telling you as that sounds like some solid advice.
     
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  9. LeanLow

    LeanLow Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    So that means you have checked wayback, screenshots, domaintools and hosting history ?
     
  10. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I wish I had thanks left for this post.
     
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  11. myopic1

    myopic1 Regular Member

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    Just wanted to clear up a common misconception about "no-follow" links. In terms of link juice loss, they function the same way as "do-follow" links do, however it's the target site that doesn't receive the link juice while your PBN/site continues to lose it.

    EDIT: Just saw asap1 allude to this but I thought I'd leave my post here.
     
  12. myopic1

    myopic1 Regular Member

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    This. Your menu system is leeching your precious link juice, should you have a 5 page menu system your outbound link juice is just 1/5th (excluding any other links) of what it could be. To combat this it's often useful to link back to your homepage from subpages or another page that you find pertinent.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  13. aussiejack

    aussiejack Regular Member

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    Very interesting. I was not aware of that. Is there any google statement confirming that?

    For me it does not sound logic on the first glimpse because it would mean that link juice actually gets lost.

    Edit: I made some research confirming myopic1 statement. Until 2009 it was possible to concentrate link juice on certain links by making the others nofollow. But after a google change in 2009 that is no longer possible so we actually lose link juice. That means I made some stupid things on some of my PBNs lately :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  14. aussiejack

    aussiejack Regular Member

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    What is your opinion about linking from inner pages to the moneysite instead of home only because it looks so unnatural? Lets say I have 10 posts. Post 1 links to money site. Posts 2-6 link to Post 1 (+ some authority sites), posts 7-10 link to posts 2-6 (some kind of Tier2 links for Post 1). Obviously it is still not as powerful as linking from home directly but still... what do you think?
     
  15. myopic1

    myopic1 Regular Member

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    Bear in mind it is only my opinion based on my own logic and knowledge of link juice theory, it is this:

    If 1 inner page links to your money site and it's 1 of 10 articles, each with a link on your homepage and a 5 page menu system your money site get's a 1/15th of the total power of the incoming link juice to your site. Taking into account a rough 15% link juice power loss per hop from the link juice source (let's assume the homepage) the number is further reduced. The actual number is increased slightly due to the fact that every subpage has a menu which links back to the homepage but after the 15% degradation is applied, this slight increase is negligible.

    There is one redeeming factor of linking exclusively from a sub-page in my opinion, it's much much more contextual. Consider that your homepage is about blue widgets and it links to a subpage about blue widgets, you've essentially created contextual tiered system. T2 being your homepage and T1 being the actual article that links to your site, which is why I suspect despite the measly link juice being delivered, subpages are still quite effective at ranking sites.
     
  16. myopic1

    myopic1 Regular Member

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    Been there, got the T-shirt. I once thought I could eliminate menu related link juice loss, turns out I just weakened my PBNs...we live and learn.
     
  17. Sristy

    Sristy Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Why don't you just remove the affiliate links and see what happens. I believe it is those aff links/too many aff links which is causing the problem. OR did you check whether your competitor is not trying something with your site
    :sand_play
     
  18. mqsss

    mqsss Regular Member

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    1. My competition has more affiliate links than I do.

    2. I don't feel like removing interlinks. My best site has almost the same amount of affiliate links and more interlinks (very similar structure), and it's dominating a tougher niche with more competition.

    3. I'm still bouncing up and down for 20-30 spots for some keywords, rest of them are just slowly going up and down for a couple of spots. Since I started building PBN links (about 1.5 months ago), it has just been jumping up and down and most keywords have dropped from pages 2-3 to 3-4.

    4. My anchors from PBN are diversified, 50% to inner pages and 50% to homepage.

    5. Homepage is important, but so are about 10 inner pages that have more than 2k monthly searches. I have made 2 good PBN links on a certain inner page about 4 months ago already and this inner page hasn't bounced up and down during this shitstorm. It actually gained 1 spot and it's lying on the position #4 at the moment. It's the only inner page that's actually making me some money on this site. I don't know why this matters, but someone might find that useful.

    I'll remove majority of affiliate links later today and let you guys know what happens in a couple of days. I have stopped building PBN links for now.

    Thank you guys!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015