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PBN: Can G tell which ip logged into which sites?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by bigballin6161, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. bigballin6161

    bigballin6161 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Should you be logging out of gmail, clearing browser, changing ip everytime you do work on your PBN? Does G have the ability to tell which ips log into which sites? Is it a bad idea to use the same ip and work on all of my pbn sites?
     
  2. tb303

    tb303 Power Member

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    not unless you have google analytics on your admin/login page...unless your login into a google property like blogger.
     
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  3. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew Regular Member

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    It can if you use Google Analytics on your sites
    It can if you have google css, scripts and/or fonts included in the html of your sites
    It can if you use Google Chrome
    It can if you use Firefox and have not disabled Safe Browsing (everything related to it in the about:config). Check if you have PREF cookie.
    It can if you use IE with google search toolbar
    It might be able if you use some other plugins, which I don't have the full list of.
    It can if you use Google Fiber.
    It may also be able if you use some internet providers who share data with google, which I don't have the full list of again.
    It can if you connect to your sites from some (most?) Android devices and probably from Apple ones too, as it looks like that Apple and Google are close friends in things related to internet ads.
    It can if you use Google public DNS - 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4

    And likely I still have forgotten something.
     
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  4. shanna_doll

    shanna_doll Power Member

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    Don't use Google DNS either.
     
  5. cloudyseo

    cloudyseo Junior Member

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    are you aware of any mistakes from your side for the de-indexing of your PBN? Would be useful to share you thoughts on this.
     
  6. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    I use Google analytics, gmail, google fonts, google chrome, firefox with safe browsing active, google DNS, and log into each site with the same ip.

    I also get sape.ru emails to my gmail, google even translates them for me. :)

    Im still going strong, I wouldnt worry about it OP.
     
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  7. rabbitking

    rabbitking Elite Member

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    Hilarious considering a lot of people think Google cares they bought some links for a small site.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    That meme haha

    But yeah its nothing to worry about.

    Google will only hand out a penalty if they know without a shadow of doubt you are breaking the rules.

    Yes google can track what sites I log into but its so many what IF's they cant penalize me.

    Now if all the domains have the same whois info and all same hosting and all link to the same site thats different its really no wiggle room in that.

    But some sites do allow you to log into them and you could just be a content writer or manage the sites you log into.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  9. Nerevar

    Nerevar Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just no, no and no.

    Some people really have no idea what they're talking about. How about you first learn how the fucking Internet works before you spew shit on a forum.
     
  10. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew Regular Member

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    I think I know how internet works better than anyone on this forum. And I'm not kidding.
    All right, I'll do an exception for you and despite your ignorant tone would tell you how it works, point by point.

    No explanations needed I think.
    When you access these resources, basically URLs of google-owned domains, your IP gets logged. Referer of these resources also gets logged. The referer is the page where these resources are included to, including domain part of the pages. These resources are of low quality, they are rarely visited, and if a single IP keeps hitting them all the time then they are related to each other. Even if you have dynamic IP which gets changed sometimes it is still obvious from the stats that there are IPs which have preference for the same short list of rarely visited sites. It is true even if you use VPN.
    It is not secret that google uses this browser to gather statystics and the browser sends the stats to the google. Such traffic can be seen in wireshark for example. So if you use chrome, you share all your history with google.
    Safe browsing means Firefox sends query to the safebrowsing server each time you access a new domain, to check if this domain is safe or not. So again, if some IP calls the same list of rarely visited domains too often, then these domains are related to each other. Moreover, it sets the cookie named 'PREF' with the unique ID as its value, so even if you change your IP you still will be perfectly tracked by this cookie.
    Used in exactly the same way as Chrome browser.
    It's obvious I think.
    Able to track all non-https traffic. For https traffic it still is able to track all DNS queries, so it has full list of domains visited by each of the users. It also has full list of IPs of each user, with start and end time for each IP. And I don't even talk about deep packet inspection, http and DNS tracking is absolutely trivial.
    Other providers have the same info about their users, so the only thing what matters is what they share with google and what they don't.
    Again, it's obvious and not a secret I think.
    And again, it gives google the clue that there are some IPs which have preference for a short list of rarely visited domains, always the same list, or very similar list.


    I have no doubt that this info gets stored by google. It's likely that google does not process all this info in realtime, but it can be queried in manual or semiautomatic (batch) mode. For example, a cloaked (content and/or especially redirects) doorway can live for years without trafic, but it usually gets deindexed shortly after it gets some decent traffic, as cloaking gets busted by Chrome. The same is true about satellite site networks which are called 'PBN' - they work fine untill some google assessor or batch algorithm looks closely on them and queries info about relations between the domains in the network.
    So be careful what you share with google. There's no free cheese.
     
  11. accelerator_dd

    accelerator_dd Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    No they can't. As asap1 pointed out, I highly doubt Google guys will sit down, break the law (by breaking their ToS/privacy policy) just so they can hand out a penalty.

    There are some niches where you don't even need glasses to see all the spam on page 1, Google doesn't really care.

    For a time, in a certain hot niche, there was a redirect ranking for like 2 weeks going straight to a CPA offer. If G was really cracking down that hard, all these would be getting hit.
     
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  12. tb303

    tb303 Power Member

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    Wow nice ego!

    The CSS/Fonts etc thing....youve heard of browser caching yes?
    The DNS thing... same thing, local DNS cache?

    Pretty sure chrome or firefox would cache the safebrowsing results for a limited time as well to reduce server load

    Chrome used to log the sites you visit (When not logged in)... this crops up on here from time to time. I keep asking people to link me something that proves this - until then its nothing more than conspiracy theory. Im pretty sure enough security bods out there have looked through the code by now and this kind of spying would hit the mainstream news if it came out.

    IP's are way too unreliable (unless combined with a cookie). What about all the people on mobile with all those shared cell IP's in cities and towns?

    Im also very skeptical of the gmail thing. Its similar to people saying you can use gmail for indexing pages. Im suposed to believe that if I was to send a link to a page that was not linked to by anything then google will crawl & index that? It could be sensitive company data. Or private photos. Thats a legal minefield right there that no big company would risk getting into. Anyway this is easy to test, so im sure someones already done it.
     
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  13. Bartholomew

    Bartholomew Regular Member

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    Oh my.
    To cache DNS locally you have to grab the address globally at least once. Get it? And when you set your DNS to 8.8.8.8 there are no anymore any intermediate DNS caching servers between you and Google. It's only you, your home router and Google.
    About CSS/Fonts - the caching time is set by http response headers which are returned by the webserver which is owned by Google. So it's they who decide what is cached for whom and what is not. Look:
    Code:
     curl --head https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=PT+Serif
    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
    Content-Type: text/css
    Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *
    Timing-Allow-Origin: *
    [B]Expires: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:23:59 GMT
    Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 14:23:59 GMT[/B]
    [B]Cache-Control: private, max-age=86400[/B]
    Content-Length: 248
    X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff
    X-Frame-Options: SAMEORIGIN
    X-XSS-Protection: 1; mode=block
    Server: GSE
    Alternate-Protocol: 443:quic,p=1
    Alt-Svc: quic=":443"; p="1"; ma=604800
    
    So the first strange thing is that Expires and max-age have different expiring time, 0 and 1 day respectively. Ok, let's assume that HTTP 1.1 clients prefer max-age to Expires - it will be just one day anyway, and only for exactly this URL. So if you have different google css/js on different sites and/or enough time passed to gather statistics, the sites earlier or later will be clustered by IP.

    Again, it's only after a real request was done. One time is enough to leave the footprint. There are very few IPs who would hit the same list of low-quality sites.

    You don't need any conspiracy theory, it's enough to look onto differences in Chromium and Chrome and look on the traffic with the wireshark.
    I'll tell you more. There's a Yandex browser which is basically a Chrome (Chromium) with Google spy modules replaced by Yandex ones. The Yandex (biggest search engine in RU market) tops said themselves that they do it and that having ones own browser affects quality of search results and quality of delivered ads a lot, so they a bit panicked about it when the Chrome took off.

    You don't need reliable info, it's not a control software for nuclear reactor. You need just some info to raise red flag and activate manual review for a cluster of low-quality sites which are linked to another group of money sites and accesed from the same IP. Most people do domain administration from home and they are on dynamic IP with long lease time. When they are on mobile, their device is tracked by Google or Apple via the OS. And it is very easy to distinguish such dynamic IPs from the mobile ones anyway, everyone can do this for $100 + $24/month (MaxMind DB), and Google with it's huge data can do it as well, and better than most. I'd say the only thing which stopped Google from busting SAPE completely and made the Google to push Penguin is that the sites in the network have different CMSs and are controlled by absolutely different people. Unlike multiple so called "Blog Networks" (like BMR), now dead, which used to be popular before I told BHW about SAPE (yeah, the ego again).
    It is not secret that google scans emails. First, it's the only reason for google to have free gmail service at all. Second, they say it themselves in their terms. Open http://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ and read: "Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection.". And God knows for what else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  14. asap1

    asap1 BANNED BANNED Jr. VIP

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    Ok guys lets settle down.

    Everything Bartholomew said is true and google can log your ip with the said programs/software

    But will google give you a penalty with that information? No.

    It would create to many false positives if a algo handed out penalties with that information.
     
  15. Penumbra

    Penumbra Power Member

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    [​IMG]
     

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  16. MixerDJ

    MixerDJ Regular Member

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    Always use safe options it's better to keep your network safe
     
  17. archon10

    archon10 BANNED BANNED

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    jesus bhw. More bad noob info that's completely inaccurate.

    Web search team does not have access to Gmail info. They also don't have access to analytics info, so none of this affects search engine ranking. No, Google does not care or can see that you're logging into your PBN.

    I dunno WTF Google fonts has to do with anything. That one guy sounds paranoid as fuck.
     
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  18. Penumbra

    Penumbra Power Member

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    I agree, google is not that much desperate.
     
  19. tb303

    tb303 Power Member

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    Well yes, but just that 1 hit to the DNS server from an IP isnt going to be much use really is it. Even less so when it cant tell the difference between yourdomain.com and youdomin.com/wp-admin.

    Fair comment on the caching, i hadnt looked at the headers and you'd expect the caching to be more than a day for a font. So granted if you use any google scripts/fonts etc on your websites dashboard then they will see you. An IP just hitting the login page however does not mean its the admin.

    well then. thanks for SAPE. Happy days. Seriously. :)

    Mate im not disputing that google *could* do all these things to track PBN's but it seems to me looking around they're not.
    If they did PBN's would have been stamped out by now.
    I hear what you are saying about sites that only get one visitor, but it seems for me even the quietest sites I have get hit by loads of bots & referrer spam. Much of which still seems to trigger javascript on the page (so must load any external librarys/fonts etc with a different IP).

    If im sending an email about my erectile disfunction id expect the google ad system to pick up on the keywords. Like you say its in the terms. But as for what it does with the URL's in gmail? it apparently doesnt even seem to send any bots to them. I was going to set it up with zennoposter and a load of accounts to see if the link get spidered by anything but seems like its been covered already, heres one...
    https://www.stonetemple.com/does-google-sniff-gmail-for-urls/