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Paypal Withdrawal Question (Dollars converted to Euros)

Discussion in 'Business & Tax Advice' started by Scorpion Ghost, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    I live in the Balkans.

    I have an account in the bank and a debit card. I also have a Paypal account.

    Recently I withdrew $1300 from Paypal to my Debit Card.

    When the money arrived on my account in the bank, I checked on online banking, and I received euros instead of dollars.

    I went to the bank and asked them why they converted the dollars to euros without my permission. After talking for about 10 minutes with one female employee (cute and fairly intelligent), and 10 minutes with another employee (not so cute and not so intelligent), and a 10 minute phone call the bank made to their central offices, they told me that the bank received euros, and not dollars. So the bank didn't convert anything.

    The first employee I talked to told me that she knows a few people who deal with Paypal, and she thinks that there's a different bank involved between Paypal and my bank. In other words, she said that when I withdraw from Paypal, that money gets funneled through some other bank before it arrives in my local bank. And she believes that that's where the conversion happened.

    Later today when Paypal's phone support opens, I'll give them a call and see if I can get to the bottom of this.

    My problem is that Paypal's conversion rate (USD to Euro) is low. The bank's conversion rate (USD to Euro) is even lower. But if I could get dollars in my account, and then take dollars out of the bank in cash, and convert locally, I'd have more money in my pocket.

    For example the $1300 dollars, due to the conversion that happened (who the hell converted the money?), I lost 40 euros :( With 40 euros I can pay all my bills (internet, electricity, water, phone, garbage) for an entire month. It's no small thing.

    Anyway, does anyone know anything about this?
     
  2. RuthSam

    RuthSam Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    PayPal converts the money into the currency of your home country. It is a shitty thing they are doing. I have not found out how to stop that. However, if you look at the exchange rate they make some extra money on each transfer doing so. Means even if they say it is free to transfer your money it is to a horrible exchange rate where they get their share!
     
  3. MightyMu

    MightyMu Regular Member

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    I live in the netherlands, but for me it sounds logical that they convert it to the currency of you bank account. My bank account is in euro's, so I don't know how it is possible to get dollars on your bank account?
     
  4. HoNeYBiRD

    HoNeYBiRD Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    @Scorpion Ghost: Are you sure that the local exchange rates are much better than PayPal's? If you won't lose 40 EUR, you'll lose 30 EUR. You won't be able to avoid some loss and the difference may not worth the trip to the bank or your time.

    Btw what the rep was talking about is called an intermediary bank.
    "An intermediary bank is a bank that acts on behalf of the beneficiary bank. Payments will reach the intermediary bank before being credited to the beneficiary (the beneficiary is the person or entity who will receive the payment), which is the final destination for the transfer."

    What kind of debit card is that? Is it a USD debit card?

    Yes, it's logical and they do exactly what you said. It's still possible to receive USD in EU or anywhere else, if you have a foreign currency account in USD.
     
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  5. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    I am 100% sure about the exchange rates. I looked into it. On the day I withdrew the $1300 dollars, here's how the exchange rates stood between Paypal, the Bank, and a 3rd Party Exchange Office locally.

    Let's say $1000 Dollars to make the math easier.

    The bank was giving 88 euro cents for $1 dollar. Paypal was giving 90 euro cents for $1 dollar. The 3rd Party Exchange Office was giving 92 cents for $1 dollar. Which for me translates into 880 euros for $1000 dollars if the bank converts, 900 euros for $1000 dollars if Paypal converts, 920 euros for $1000 dollars if I convert at the local 3rd party exchange place.

    I lost 40 euros. That's food off my table! F*ck them in the a** with a screwdriver! Sorry, losing money while knowing how to turn the best profit pissed me off to no end!

    That said...

    Thank you about the intermediary bank lesson. So, do you know if there's an intermediary bank involved between Paypal and my local bank when money is withdrawn from Paypal? Did they rob me blind... I mean, convert the USD into EUR?

    That said...

    The debit card I have is a regular Visa debit card. After talking to them at the bank and finishing the talk, I had them open a USD currency partition on my debit card. I'm not sure why frankly, because if they're right (which, no one can be trusted, but let's say they were right) when they said that the bank did not convert my money, then it doesn't matter if my debit card has a USD partition or not. The money arrived to the bank in Euros, according to the bank itself (but again, no one can be trusted, the world is full of trained monkeys, misinformation, and bullshit!).

    That said...

    I continue doing business, and I'm close to having $1000 dollars in my Paypal again, which I will need to withdraw soon. I HAVE TO figure out WHO did the conversion, and if there's a way I can avoid it. I just want to withdraw dollars from Paypal, receive dollars on my bank account/debit card, get the dollars out in cash from the bank, and go to the 3rd party local exchange place, and exchange the money into Euros. This would be the most economically beneficial arrangement for me.

    I hope you read this HoneyBird and tell me what you think? And anyone else who has any valuable info to contribute, please do. And I'll update after I talk to Paypal today or tomorrow, and say what they told me. I have to get to the bottom of this. It's bothering the shit out of me!

    p.s the country I live in is NOT in the EU, if it makes a difference...
     
  6. HoNeYBiRD

    HoNeYBiRD Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Well, the exchange rates are fluctuating throughout the day, PayPal change the rates only twice per day, not sure when exactly though. Currency exchangers, banks update more frequently. The USD is strong, but not that stable at the moment, so you can't really say which option is the best.

    Your calculation might be true for the moment you've done it, but it can be false, if you check it a minute later, because PayPal already updated the rates for instance. So generally you can't be sure which option is the best. We talk about 2 cents here, that can easily change even within a second. Until you reach the bank and currency exchanger, rates can change and what you calculated at home won't be true anymore.

    PayPal's bank in my country is Unicredit, i guess this varies by country. I'm just mentioning this, because if i'd have a foreign USD account with Unicredit, there would be no intermediary bank and i'd expect no currency conversion.

    So you might want to find out which is PayPal's bank in your country and open a foreign USD account there or get a debit card with the USD currency partition, if it's possible there too. Although i'm not sure about the fees, so it might not worth it, if the account has a high monthly fee or if it costs money to withdraw cash in the bank. I don't know this, just speculating.

    I think PayPal won't be able to do anything with your present setup and the transfer will go through the intermediary bank, which does the currency conversion, no matter what.

    It seems that the USD partition of your debit card is not recognized by the bank who did the conversion. I guess you can try opening a foreign USD account in your bank, which stores only USD and there's no option to receive any other currency to it.

    I know it sucks to lose money like this, but i guess this is the price we need to pay for working in pyjamas all day from the comfort of our homes. :)
    I learned not to pay attention to this or at least i try not to and i combat it on my own way. For instance when i go shopping online i always check the currencies, if there are more than one to choose from. Last time i shopped for clothes on the German version of a UK site and i paid in RUB which was converted from USD, because that was the cheapest option. :) I was able to get around 20% off without coupon codes. I'd like to think, that these small wins balance out the losses.
     
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  7. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    About the exchange rates. Of course, they fluctuate. But one thing holds true 100% of the times. When I' exchanging Euros into the local currency, the 3rd party exchange places Always give higher value than the banks. That's always, 100% of the times, every day of every year. And the same holds true for USD/EUR conversion.

    If it jumps 2 cents for example, it will jump across the board (Paypal, Bank, 3rd Party Exchange places). If it drops 2 cents, it will drop across the board. Of course, certain 3rd party exchange places give a bit less than others, but I know which ones are the best and highest, so I know where to change and get the best value for my money.

    That said...

    So you're saying that an intermediary bank does exist. So when Paypal sends me the money, they first send it to some mystical behind the curtains shadowy not publically visible bank (at least I'm not informed about this route my money is taking), and then that shadow bank sends it to my bank.

    What I'm trying to figure out is, did Paypal convert (without telling me). If there's an intermediary bank, did they convert (without me being informed about this). Or did my bank just flat out lie that they didn't convert, when in fact they did. Once I figure this out, then I'll know what my next move is.

    If it's Paypal, see if it's possible for them to stop it. If it's an intermediary bank, find out which one that is, and see if I can go to them and take care of it. And if it's my bank that did it, well, talk to their manager or something, or change banks.

    That said...

    You know, just because I work in pyjamas, it doesn't negate the fact that I work my ass off. I've been struggling and creating and trying to build something for 3 years now, going on 4 years, full time. I'm on the right track, and I'm optimistic.

    But ultimately I'm trying to run a business here. Losses that can be avoided, no matter how small, shall be avoided. If I demand efficiency in anything in my business, it's clients being satisfied, and me getting the best bang for my bucks. I simply refuse to say that this conversion situation is the price of doing business, that's the way it is, and forget about it. Long term I could be making much more money if I can work this out the way I want to. And if I can't, I'll still be better off converting the USD into Euros directly on Paypal, and then withdrawing Euros (their exchange rates are Always higher than the bank, and I can live with that).

    The cost of doing business expenses to me are, for example, the Paypal receiving fees (which if I ever start making over $2500 a month consistently, I will be in touch with Paypal to reduce my receiving fees - I asked about this a few months ago, and it's doable). Also the Paypal withdrawal fee is also price of doing business. Every time I withdraw dollars, I lose $5 in Paypal fee. If I withdraw Euros, I lose 4 euros in Paypal fee (that's why I always withdraw the maximum withdrawal amount I'm allowed - I don't go withdrawing $100 bucks and $200 bucks or 100/200/500 euros. I ALWAYS withdraw $1305 dollars, or 1104 euros - that's close to the max). Say I withdraw 10 times $100 bucks, I'm out $50 bucks. Say I withdraw 1 time $1000 bucks, I'm out $5 bucks. It adds up bro, it adds up. I'm not playing games here.

    Okay, thanks a bunch. We've reached a consensus. I'll call Paypal today, and report back what happened, and take it from there.
     
  8. PBM Bob

    PBM Bob BANNED BANNED

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    Why are you complaining over the conversion, when Paypal fucked me up with their transaction and withdrawal fees.

    And yes, Paypal has the permission to convert any currencies to suit their purposes, and they monitor the USD/Euro market pretty closely.
     
  9. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    Everything you wrote is wrong on so many levels.

    1) I don't care if Paypal fucked you over with their fees. This thread has nothing to do with that.
    2) I'm complaining over the conversion because I want to get the most money for my money, as is my right to do. If you read what I wrote in this thread so far, you would know why I'm complaining. And I'm not complaining, I'm tying to resolve a problem.
    3) Paypal does Not have the permission to convert any currencies to suit their purposes. If you have Dollars in Paypal, they can't just convert it to some other currency just because. And if an intermediary bank converts the money, I'll get to the bottom of it. This is a loophole in my opinion (it's a loophole because it happens, and they don't inform you about it. They're playing with peoples' money, and not informing you about it. It should be illegal)
    4) Sure, they monitor the USD/Euro market pretty closely. That's pretty much the only thing you said that made any sense to me.
     
  10. PBM Bob

    PBM Bob BANNED BANNED

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    First of all, get your tone right. You are the one here begging for help, not me. I have to clear my busy schedule up to resolve YOUR problem, not mine.

    Next, yes they have the complete right to convert any currencies during the withdrawing process, read their policies. I've been dealing with them longer than you do, and I call them up on their regular basis.

    What I am saying will make sense to you if you understand how Paypal works in the US.

    Regards,
    Johnson.
     
  11. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    I don't know how you define begging. Show me the begging. Where exactly did I beg?

    You couldn't resolve my problem if your life depended on it. I'm pretty sure about that. But please, don't clear your busy schedule on my account.

    I literally started my original post on this thread with the sentence: "I live in the Balkans." Not that I don't care about how it works in the US, but if you knew a little something about a little something, you'd know that the US is a different animal when dealing with Paypal.

    Please, go away. And if you can resolve my question, that's cool, no need. You have a busy schedule and you better get to it.
     
  12. anafsp1

    anafsp1 Junior Member

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    I have two accounts in the same bank: one in Euros and the other in Dollars. Maybe this can work for you too.
     
  13. PBM Bob

    PBM Bob BANNED BANNED

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    I dont care if you live in the Balkans, but please fix your broken rubbish english. It's a headache for people to look at your sentences and treat you seriously. If you're going to bug and beg people to resolve your issues, at least do it with a read-able article.
     
  14. mrarowana

    mrarowana Junior Member

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    what balkan country are you in?
     
  15. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    The point I was making was that it's irrelevant how it is in the States. Because you said: "What I am saying will make sense to you if you understand how Paypal works in the US." Which was IRRELEVANT!

    I didn't bug or beg anyone for anything. I asked a question, and if anyone replies, we can-- oh forget it, it's pointless.

    You're incredibly stupid, Bob. I can't even talk to you.

    And my English is fantastic.
     
  16. HoNeYBiRD

    HoNeYBiRD Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yes, it will jump across the board, but PayPal updates its rates only two times daily, while others more frequently, so you can't possibly know, which is the best option, only for a given moment. Banks are the worst, that's true. :)

    I think no-one is lying and there's an intermediary bank, which actually did the conversion. If you see no currency conversion in your PayPal account, they didn't do the conversion and they sent USD. If your beneficiary bank says that they didn't do the conversion, i tend to believe them. Money going through intermediary banks is not some mystical, but a routine banking process when money crosses borders. You aren't getting informed about this, normally you shouldn't notice it.

    I see. This must be a country specific thing, where i live (Central EU) there are no withdrawal fees (in addition to the currency exchange fees).
     
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  17. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    That must be it. The intermediary bank. I'll call Paypal today and - try to - get information about this.

    Well excuse me. How can I not notice it when it reaches over and takes food out of my mouth? :D hahaha

    But seriously. This should be illegal. If someone sneezes on my money, I should get informed about it. But that's just me :p


    Maybe you didn't understand me because I'm all over the place.

    When you withdraw, say, 500 euros from Paypal to your Debit card. Won't Paypal charge you a few euros for the withdrawal?

    I've been paying this fee in an EU country where I used to live, and I'm paying it now that I'm living in a non-EU country. The fee was slightly lower in the EU country.

    Thanks a lot man!
     
  18. HoNeYBiRD

    HoNeYBiRD Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    When i withdraw to my bank account, there is no withdrawal fee on top of the currency conversion fee.

    Here you can check the withdrawal fees by country: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-withdrawal-fees-outside
    You mentioned that you live in the Balkans, for instance Albania is a Balkan country and the withdrawal costs $5 there, while in Hungary (my country) it is free just like in many other countries.
     
  19. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    Hm, I didn't know that. That's cool.

    I don't live in Albania. It's a different country I'm in. But we also pay $5 on each USD withdrawal. And if I withdraw Euros, then it's 4 Euros.

    Hungary is cool. You guys built a wall on your border with us about a year ago, as you should! ;)
     
  20. Scorpion Ghost

    Scorpion Ghost Senior Member

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    Paypal just gave me a boner boys! :rolleyes:

    Massive boner. I'm talking 20 inches at least... o_O

    So I called them, and this sweet, sweet lady answered. I explained the problem I had when I withdrew Dollars yet received Euros. She immediately understood that I was calling because I lost on conversion. So she (this is where the boner comes in) basically asked me how much did I lose, and I told her more or less, and she added like $170 in my Paypal balance ;)

    Then she told me that Paypal converts the money into the local currency of the country they're sending the money to. So my take on what happened is, Paypal sent the money in my local currency (RSD), and then for some reason the bank converted it to Euros. I believe it's because, even though the local currency is RSD, the actual currency the country operates in on a bank level is the Euro, and that's why the money got converted when coming from outside of the country. Or it could be because my debit card only had a Euro partition on it at the time.

    Basically, I'm still not entirely 100% clear on what exactly happened...

    But the good thing is that she told me that she now changed my card on Paypal and made it USD (I guess, now Paypal views the card as a USD card, and will send dollars when I withdraw). So from now on when I withdraw money, Paypal won't convert it into the local currency, and I should receive US dollars.

    I'm closing on my next withdrawal by the end of December, and I'll report whether I received Dollars, or if it got converted into Euros again.

    #PaypalRocks :cool: