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Panda will come at night and eat you alive

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by enderz, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. enderz

    enderz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I think it is obvious specially to BHers that Google like any other big technology organization has no chance in winning a technology war against the crowd.

    Look at security companies, they invest billions until some 16 years old kid comes and hack the hell out of them. Now, its not that a 16 years old kid got any chance against them for the long-term, but statistically there will always be some 16 years old kid that will kick their asses.

    Same for SEO.

    No matter what Google will do, how heavy Panda they will throw at us, there will always be the next BH method that will work.

    As big as Google can be it will never have the men power or the total men brain as we have, we are the people :)

    So, Googles only chance is by winning psychologically, making us be afraid, confused, making us not even try.

    Look at all of those who are writing Big G, G, Brother G instead of Google. Fear! Doesn't it remind you "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named"?

    Since the Panda update, I see lots of thread of people crying "Panda just killed my site"/"Another Panda update just killed my site"/etc...

    The only thing that is killing you site is the lack of understanding what Google can do at the moment, what they will be able to do soon enough, what is their immediate interest and what they will have lots of troubles implementing if ever.

    Here is a key concept:
    If there is one major BH method that EVERYONE are using (hmmm... lets say, profile blasts), is it logical that it will last forever? Will Google fail (or put it in low priority) to know how to handle it forever?
    If you answer yes, your sites are "dead sites walking".

    On the other hand, many agree that their methods are temporary, but still they use it cause they are currently working, but when some day all their sites crash, cause those "geniuses" used the same methods and only those methods although they new they are temp, on all their sites.

    Actually when coming to think of it, Google second tool against us is our laziness, we think, well, all I need to rank my sites is to run my xrumer server and blast my sites/web 2.0 properties/other tiers and when the day will come that it will not work I'll find some other method.

    Well, when that day comes you find yourself with no income (or a serious drop of income) and many times with slow chance to recover your sites.

    Anyway, all I wanted to say, is Google got no chance against us who think long term and act to survive long term. Meaning - noobs get hurt first (hmmm... which might be a good thing ;) ).
     
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  2. xbox360gurl70s

    xbox360gurl70s Elite Member

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  3. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    Nice observation. But that 16 yo kid is not a crowd. The crowd tries and fails all the time. Only once in a million someone gets lucky. And even the best real system has a statistical margin of error of at least 1:1 000 000. Just look at how there are no 100% pure gold coins.

    Now, to think that such a small chance is YOUR chance to make money... well better try the lottery instead.

    The only reasonable approach seems to be figuring out what the brother you are talking about wants and then provide that to him with the least possible effort.
     
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  4. enderz

    enderz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    You didn't get me.

    I don't need to be the one who breaks through. I didn't discover that backlinks are good for SEO, I didn't discover that automation can boost my business.

    Someone else, that 1 in a million did it for me, I was right behind him :)

    And yes, that 16 years old is one of the crowd, cause if we are millions upon millions and our chances is 1:1000000 than, we have several of us who will find the way and will lead us all.
     
  5. Monrox

    Monrox Power Member

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    Ah ok, I like your enthusiasm :)
    Getting discouraged is the biggest problem indeed.

    But to continue the discussion, the fact that backlinks are good for seo was never a secret. I keep repeating myself, but that is actually a patent and all patents must be disclosed publically before approval.

    As to automation, it is hard to automate things that are not similar. Human minds are not similar so no seasoned webmaster (having >3 PR pages) is ever going to approve an absurd comment or add an editorial link to some nonsense. So we can't automate that but we can automate the harvesting, the PR retrieval, the subpage that would accept our backlink. The actual work aimed at tricking the human must be done by another human or a future AI.

    There is also a misconception about another type of automation: unique content generation. If anything, uniqueness can protect a domain from deindexing but it will never help it rank. Why? Because a single result can occupy a single slot. Suppose there are 2 websites about pandas, both with unique content. Which one should be put on top? The longer text, the older text, the keywords stuffed one? Nope, the winner is the page that has most backlinks; not just as quantity but as quality.

    To extend the example, suppose a third page about pandas appears, an exact copy of one of the others. This third page has crappy backlinks from meager blogs like the others AND a link from the stanford university. I can guarantee you panda number 3 will blow the competition out of the sky. With enough link backing it may even be given the second and the 3rd slots as well.

    Why is that? Because neither search engines nor users care who the original author is. They care about relevancy. The best way to judge relevancy is by looking at how many humans linked to that information. That way is still patented though so only G can use it. Bing lagging behind is a proof that currently there is no better way.

    Right now the big guys experiment with social networks to see if these types of linking could be as useful. Personally I am sceptical that it would work as great because normal users have no motives to try and enlighten others. For example when they talk about cars they link to ford. Google already knows to show ford.com to those typing 'ford' in their search. Same for the rest of the topics on facebook with the exception of the occasional short-lived viral thing.
     
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  6. enderz

    enderz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Well, you got hung for specific examples and I just wanted to make a point: 100000 SEOers don't need to develop SeNuke its enough that 1 guy/company will do it and we'll all follow.

    The day that SN won't be efficient (to my opinion that day has arrived), all it takes is 1 company/person/teenager to come up with the next thing.

    But, that is not the point of what I tried to say, the point is that Google has no chance, no matter how their algo will develop we (the crowd) will always have something better... But, psychologically speaking, most of us contribute to Google abilities they don't have and by doing that we act on a narrower spectrum.

     
  7. Santa Claus

    Santa Claus Registered Member

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    The only way to keep your sites alive in the long run is link diversity.

    Sure you can create thousands of profile links/blog comments if you also use quality links in your link building strategy.
     
  8. enderz

    enderz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    The only way to be corny is to be corny.



    You can?!
     
  9. edgematch

    edgematch Elite Member

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    So what?...
     
  10. TheNetworkBlast

    TheNetworkBlast Regular Member

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    I like how you think, but you don't seem to get it. Google IS using "the crowd" against each other. How? Google+.

    Case Study:
    I opened up 2 gmail accounts, one account in my Safari browser, and one account in my Chrome browser. I hit plus 1 for a post on my blog in the Safari browser. I searched in google in my Safari browser for my keyword I hit plus 1 for. I'm ranked 2nd for the phrase. I searched the same keyword in Chrome, I'm non-existent.

    Hope that helps, and correct any error I could have possibly made in reporting this if you can(no seriously).
     
  11. Santa Claus

    Santa Claus Registered Member

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    Hey buddy, despite being new to this forum I am not new to SEO. By link diversity I mean many kinds of links.

    Yeah.. you can blast your money site with the crappiest links in the world if you keep link velocity constant. I know it because I tested this method over and over and all the sites are ranked high making money.
     
  12. bstsystems

    bstsystems Regular Member

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  13. enderz

    enderz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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  14. omg123

    omg123 Regular Member

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  15. madoctopus

    madoctopus Supreme Member

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    3 Google engineers in a room with come up in 10min flat with a solution against the method developed by your 16yo kid if they think it is worth their time doing so.

    The way to beat google is not by trying to trick it but by not fighting against it. Give ti what it wants and your sites will be ok. Most people try to build sites for google. You should build sites for humans and build relationships.

    If you have a site about blue widgets and all day long you do scrapebox blasts and build shitty links, you wn't do near as well as if you have a great site on your topic so and build relationships with editors from high PR sites. Imagine if somebody ay NY Times puts a link to your site. Or cNet, or zdnet, or Microsoft, etc.

    I know a guy who got a link from a Microsoft PR8 page. He had a software site that was pretty much nonexistent in the eyes of Google. After he got that PR8 link from microsoft his traffic went from 150v/day to 8000v/day within a week. ONE LINK! He then built shitloads of shitty links and guess what?! Nothing happened. Nothing improved. A high PR ******** link, especially an editorial one not a comment one will be more valuable than a 1 million scrapebox/xrumer blast or any other mass link spam technique. Not only that but after you have a few serious links you can even build shitty links and google won't see you as a spammer.

    Lots of big sites are doing blackhat SEO. Only they actually do real blackhat SEO not crappy muddy-hat SEO like most who think of themselves as blackhatters. You wanna know what blackhat SEO is? It is something that looks like whitehat SEO but it is not. I remember once I found on flippa a listing of a PR5 site. It was a Pligg site with bookmarks of tutorials on design, programming, etc. On homepage, in the "most popular" panel was "Weight loss pills" link. Very very obvious if you actually looked over the site. The new owner just hardcoded it there. Analizing his backlinks i found hundreds of sites with no relation to weight loss linking to his site and his big network of sites. Basicaly he payed $7000 on flippa for a link (well, actually as many as he wants because the site is his now).

    I also remember a guy who did like 300 WP themes, joomla themes, drupal themes and in the footer was a "weight loss pills" link. Only from theme footer links he had in excess of 50,000 links to 3 of his sites.

    Another guy I know bought a Google Mini. He didn't needed it but he knew he will get a link from google.com (after some complains from the SEO community Google made those links n0f0low).

    And these things are so 2009 SEO.

    I do get the point of the OP but I also think that Google does a good job at fighting spam for top 5-10 positions (and that's what matters). They focus on shitty spam so truly good SEOs even if (i mean always) are doing blackhat are doing it differently and staying away from the crowd. Usually the noisiest animal in the jungle dies first. Any method that becomes public dies because it becomes public. It's like CIA would tell everybody how they operate and then expect to still win and get away with what they do.

    People look for new ways to play along with whatever Google comes (e.g. +1). Thing is links are here for a long time. Look at zdnet.com, testfreaks.com, etc. They have pages with 5-10 excerpts from product review sites. That's 100% non-unique content. Yet the page is PR4 just from the internal linking and they rank #5 in google for that product review searches. You do that as well with your autoblogs only you don't have a PR9 homepage and 25 million links like they do.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  16. kez1000

    kez1000 Supreme Member

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    Very nice ;)

    For me I cannot be bothered anymore I just make money online from a mixture
    of different methods from fiverr, ****** and arbitrage to amazon and adsense
    so when Google "NOT BIG G" change their algo it does not really effect me
    that much
     
  17. enderz

    enderz Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Well, I dig and agree with most what you are saying, more that that I think its confirming my point of view.

    I never said/thought that one should be "one in the crowd" you can't win anything in life be being one in the crowd. I just said that when you look at Google as a whole and BHers (btw, in my perpective 99% of those calling themselves WH are BH) google don't stand a chance.

    Now, are there better methods than what the majority are using? there must be otherwise we would all randomly share the #1 position for "casino" ;)