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Outsourcing wages keep going up and up and up - rant

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by jon_xx_x, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I have been outsourcing work, whether it's articles, design, or small tasks for exactly ten years now. I have probably spent around $30,000 on the various projects I've done.
    What I love(d) about outsourcing is that I could find a well educated, hard working indidvidual from overseas where it was cheap for me, and to them it was good money
    Then outsourcing got more popular, and more popular and they start to realize the demand for outsourcing and their prices keep going up and up. What was once $2.5/hour is now $10+/hour and you know damn well they aren't working for that whole hour (if you're paying hourly).

    Now I'm fine with paying a fair price for their service, but I cant believe the bids I get on projects now days.
    A couple days ago I created a project for four wordpress sites to be moved off my one domain to different hosts. I was testing four different sites off one domain, and was done testing and wanted them to go live. Now I'm not a genius with computers but I've been doing this for 15+ years, I'm well above average. I just didn't want to spend the time transfering the sites, fuck up somewhere, have to redo it, etc. I know the process takes 5-10 minutes to actually do, all you're doing is moving the content and databases, changing a couple things for the URLs and you're done.

    I had about 50 bids on it. One guy bid $30, but he didn't sound like he knew what he was doing. Then was one for $40, then a bunch for $50-$100, and a handful in the $100-$500 range.

    So to save me time I was fine with paying someoen a few bucks to transfer these four sites for me. At most you're looking at an hour of work. So the lowest priced guy wanted $30/hour. I can't believe that, and that was only one guy. The majority of these guys wanted to be paid at a rate of $50/hour. So I said fuck it and did it myself, and it took ten minutes. If I knew my stuff better, it could have been done in five minutes. So really these guys could have been paid at a rate of $100/hour if they knew what they were doing.

    Shit if someone offered me $30-$40 to move four sites, I'd probably take that offer myself. Yet these guys overseas want to charge at a rate of $50+/hr.
    I just don't understand how there weren't a few guys willing to do this for $20-$25 at worst it would have been an hour and they would have made $20-$25 for the hour.

    Why has this changed so much? Do they just see how clueless people are willing to spend so much money they want to over charge now? But even still I'd assume some have so little money, that they'd still be happy to work for $5-$10 and live very good off that rate where they are from.

    Another job I wanted a sidebar removed completely from wordpress, and I was getting bids around $20+. Another I had some styling issues I wanted someone to do and again they wanted $25-$50. Yet I know it's going to take this guy literally two minutes to make the necessary changes. Two minutes! Why not take $5 or $10 for two minutes of your time? I just don't get it. On top of that, I"d go to you a few times a week for these small changes.

    /end rant
    I don't even know if anyone's going to read that lol. Had to get it off my chest. There's been like three tiny projects in a row this happened and I ended up fixing the stuff myself.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  2. beasty513

    beasty513 Junior Member

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    I've read it and I understand.



    Some people will want to stiff you just

    because you have the means to pay them what's quoted.



    At that point, tell them to fuck off.


    Glad that you took the time to do it

    yourself instead of giving in.


    What is the world coming to?

    smh
     
  3. TwistedSEO

    TwistedSEO Regular Member

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    You shouldn't be blaming the outsourced workers, you should be blaming the other people doing the outsourcing. As long as there is someone willing to pay at the higher rate, no one in their right mind will work for less than they can (opportunity cost).

    If every outsourcer stopped overpaying, then these guys would have no choice but to work at lower rates (lower paying projects), but clearly this is not the case. Its all supply and demand. Why would they take a job for $5 per hour when the next guy is offering them $15 per hour? The only way they would do the first job is if the first guy raised his offer (hence the higher bids.)

    Also, you would have to take into consideration the overhead required for fulfilling such a small task.

    It's frustrating, but the market determines the price.
     
  4. poetry1969

    poetry1969 Junior Member

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    I have a team of outsourced scriptwriters who handle the overflow throughout the year when my company gets too busy. Right now I have several of them working on projects because I have about 30 contracts and I simply cannot handle that load without hiring more people (and if I hire more people I cannot keep them busy all year). So freelancers are great for grey areas like this.

    I used to go to freelancer and other sites and post jobs for bid-offers, but over the years I have made deals with the freelancers to work on an hourly basis. Of course, like any business, you have to be careful they are keeping honest hours, but since we also write scripts regularly, we know about how long it takes them, and sometimes we pay bonuses. I pay about $12 an hour to most of them, a couple get more if they have certain skills. This is much less than I would have to pay for a US programmer with experience. My advice is to try and find a few honest freelancers and make a deal with them for hourly labor. The best deals will be found when you promise a set amount of work. So, they get like 30 hours of work in a week guaranteed, or whatever is best for you. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  5. ikilledkenny

    ikilledkenny Junior Member

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    why not get a VA for part time and get all these things off your head? going into odesk..posting a job..reviewing..ranting.. takes too much time.

    and btw yeah, its funny how there're much more freelancers yet prices going up.

    i mean i don't wanna talk trash here, but some writing project I needed (2nd tier articles) and like 17 writers from india asked for an average of $17/400 words or else (quote) "it will not worth my time sir". seriously?

    ended up with with $8/500 canadian girl..
     
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  6. poetry1969

    poetry1969 Junior Member

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  7. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good posts in here guys, sharing our feelings lol.

    The problem is, you get your average Joe that just put up a website and wants to do a couple thingsa nd doesn't know who to hire. He gets recommended to go to freelancer (I see it all the time). So this guy who has no idea what to pay is more than happy to pay whatever price is being offered.

    But surely with 50 people on one job, a lot of these guys aren't getting much work. So I dont understand why they don't take what they can get.
    I guess Freelancer is to blame as well, I think they take something crazy like 30%. (not certain)
     
  8. lover

    lover Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    did you post your project on Freelancer.com? From what i remember, $30 is minimum bid you can post on freelancer.com. Correct me if i am wrong.
     
  9. rayee

    rayee Power Member

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    Huh? Where re you finding your people from? I never pay more than what i think it is worth. Yes there are people charging that ridiculously high but thats because there are people like you who are STUPID enough to pay for them. So they set the bar high and start charging these people. What I've learnt in my 4 years of outsourcing is never hire the so called companies cause they charge stupid-edly high. Hire freelancers for easy peasy job. I give them $5 to migrate each site that takes only like ... 1 hour max? And those small styling issues? I always only pay $5 max. Never pay more than that. When they open their mouth to ask for more, I change freelancers. Dead easy. The internet is huge and i just simply keep changing. The moment they ask for more, you've to change.

    Just the way the game works if you want to keep costs down
     
  10. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Did I say I paid it, dumb ass?
    I said no one is even offering those low prices so I do it myself.
     
  11. the-dream

    the-dream Regular Member

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    I think it's probably just that freelancers aren't actively looking for small tasks like that. If you just approach someone directly, I'm sure they'd do it. Likewise, I've opened threads on here before and got people to do little things like that for cheap.
     
  12. nonai

    nonai Power Member

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    you seem to be concerned about the amount of time a job takes. it doesn't matter how long it takes, what matters is the kind of expertise required. removing a sidebar and moving wordpress sites is something that requires knowledge of coding and experience. you are paying for their expertise, not for their time.
    but yeah, outsourcing does suck. I do everything myself now because by the time I find the right person to do the job, explain to him what it is that I need, have him do it all wrong, explain again....I could have just done it myself.
     
  13. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yeah I realize that. And when I do a job for someone I usually don't factor that in, when I should.
     
  14. MasterMillionaire

    MasterMillionaire Junior Member

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    yee, especialyl in coding and programming space. but luckily its still possible to get cheap outsourcing guys. because if everyone is pricing high , there will be someone who will offer cheap service just to get some part of market share. To get cheaper outsourcing, it will take more time , but defo possible
     
  15. BassTrackerBoats

    BassTrackerBoats Moderator Staff Member Moderator Jr. VIP

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    There is a legitimate point here being made by Jon, those that accept outsource work could end up with ZERO business if they continue to escalate in their pricing as the average Joe Website owner is not really their bread and butter. It is guys like the OP that use them on a regular basis as repeat business is what keeps an industry flourishing.

    Raise the pricing, the repeat biz goes away, the ones that accept outsource work lose their client base and go back to whatever it is they do.

    I get emails at least once or twice a week from guys looking for work and I see the pricing going up as well and some of it is outside of my "makes sense to hire that guy" zone.

    Granted, there is value in knowledge, and I accept that fact, but the bottom line is always going to be the bottom line and if the pricing is out of line my bottom line turns from black to red and I'm not a fan of the color red.
     
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  16. learnquick

    learnquick Registered Member

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    I outsource most of my work. What I've learned is that to market towards people who have experience doing the task I need done but have no feedback or little feedback on the freelance sites.


    Those are the people who will do the work at a reduced rate with no or little feedback are the ones I hire. These are the people I continue to reuse for my work.


    I give them a chance to prove their ability on that freelance site, which allows them to get more jobs at a higher rate. They usually respect me for giving them a chance and are willing to work with my budget.
     
  17. birdy23

    birdy23 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    The same goes to me. It really pisses me off when these people over charge me with ridiculous quotes for a simple task. High chance is that they don't even know how to do it and then outsource it to another person!