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Offshore Biz Logistics and Legal Issues

Discussion in 'Business & Tax Advice' started by greyhatdude, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. greyhatdude

    greyhatdude Regular Member

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    I'm a US citizen who has been considering moving overseas to a variety of places or at least traveling heavily. I would like to avoid paying more child support to my ex-wife as I make more money. It's fine up to a point, since it is benefiting my children, but I anticipate making a lot more money (yes, that could be wishful thinking...) and I do not want to work my ass off just to put more money in the account of someone that I hate.

    You might not agree with my motivation, but I've been researching Banking Secrecy, Tax Havens, and Online Privacy issues for months. I've come to the conclusion that you would have to launder money, adopt a new identity or alias, be very careful to sanitize your digital communications, and break US law by not reporting your income to the IRS in order to guarantee yourself total privacy. Either that or renounce your US citizenship.

    There are many websites that will help you set up shop or adopt a new identity offshore/overseas, get multiple passports or residency/citizenship in other countries, anonymous ownership of accounts/cards/businesses, and/or "minimize" your taxes, but they all seem to tap dance around the fact that Uncle Sam wants US citizens to pay taxes on all their income, regardless of where or how they get it. If you don't report overseas accounts or income, you are breaking the law. You also cannot hoard the money in corporate accounts and not pay yourself - that is also considered tax evasion or obstruction of justice.

    I had planned on doing this - making money and saving it in corporate accounts, not paying myself untl I retired (early) - but there seems to be no point. I had also considered keeping US assets (domestic real estate, cars) under the name of a foreign foundation/trust, but if you live in it, manage it, or use it, then (divorce and tax) attorneys and their private eyes can figure out that you actually own it. Then they can track down where it is owned and who helped you conceal it. Do you really want the word of a foreign attorney to be the only thing standing between you and having all of your assets revealed? Ever heard of a bribe?

    If you're considering or engaged in the things that I've researched, then you really need to visit assetsearchblog.com to see the flip side of the coin. The bottom line is this - I think that in order to hide assets from Uncle Sam you need to either break the law or renounce citizenship - or renounce AND break the law. Am I wrong? :confused:

    I still think that it is a good idea to diversify and secure/conceal as much as possible, but if the government knows about it, they can take it.

    What is the most reasonable solution to this problem? Buying a diplomatic passport?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  2. MarketerMac

    MarketerMac Regular Member

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    Diplomats don't have to pay taxes? um...

    That and a foreign diplomat being a citizen of the country in question...I'd imagine that's an issue to? I'm no expert, but there's only two legal ways out of this. Pay your taxes or more elsewhere and renounce your citizenship. No two ways about it.
     
  3. greyhatdude

    greyhatdude Regular Member

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    My logic was that diplomats can't be prosecuted but they can probably still have their accounts frozen. I think you're right about renouncing. I'm not comfortable renouncing, so I should probably just look into what states have favorable child support laws instead, and pursue residency in one of those states.
     
  4. greyhatdude

    greyhatdude Regular Member

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    Just posting an additional resource: assetrecoverywatch.com . You can't hide from the government. Offshoring is still a valid way to protect yourself from average civilians, though.
     
  5. JimmyTheGimp

    JimmyTheGimp Newbie

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    The laws of the state in which the divorce was filed and finalized will apply regardless of where you move in the States, so that option is really not worth doing and yes, they can and will come after you if you violate the decree. Reads to me like your ex-wife has permanently wigged out (She must be REALLY pissed off!) and will be after you wherever you go, so why not do an end run around her? Incorporate, use the corporation to purchase assets held by the corporation, own only a bit of stock in the corporation, keep the corporation essentially broke through wise investments, property purchases, leases, loans, etc. There is no coporation which cannot be effectively and quite legally kept on the verge of apparent bankruptcy.

    Here's another thought. There are dire economic predictions for the USA, so can you imagine what things in Thrid World countries will be like if the USA economy goes to Hell in a handbasket? Costa Rica is no good as it has no army so it is subject to walk-in invasion by surrounding nations. Mexico has internal problems from Hell and the government there may not survive which would throw the whole place into chaos with areas ruled by individual drug lords and Central America would follow shortly therafter.

    Spend the money to speak with a GOOD attorney and a GOOD accountant, both of whom MUST be familiar with corporations and you will come out on top.

    And stop trying to do things to prevent your ex from coming after you.

    You can't prevent her from doing that but she can't come after things you created AFTER the divorce but can get the child support raised...maybe. Much of that is going to depend on where you were at the time of the divorce and how much your corporation pays you. You're not going to get away with minimum wage, so don't try that. Won't work and the court will drop a gavel on you hard.

    Why not just do the end run and go out and make enough money so that you don't care what she does as your problems with the ex seem to be the core issue here?

    And besides, why would you not want your kids to be raised in the same lifestyle to which you are or would like to become accustomed?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. JimmyTheGimp

    JimmyTheGimp Newbie

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    The laws of the state in which the divorce was filed and finalized will apply regardless of where you move in the States, so that option is really not worth doing and yes, they can and will come after you if you violate the decree. Reads to me like your ex-wife has permanently wigged out (She must be REALLY pissed off!) and will be after you wherever you go, so why not do an end run around her? Incorporate, use the corporation to purchase assets held by the corporation, own only a bit of stock in the corporation, keep the corporation essentially broke through wise investments, property purchases, leases, loans, etc. There is no coporation which cannot be effectively and quite legally kept on the verge of apparent bankruptcy.

    Here's another thought. There are dire economic predictions for the USA, so can you imagine what things in Thrid World countries will be like if the USA economy goes to Hell in a handbasket? Costa Rica is no good as it has no army so it is subject to walk-in invasion by surrounding nations. Mexico has internal problems from Hell and the government there may not survive which would throw the whole place into chaos with areas ruled by individual drug lords and Central America would follow shortly therafter.

    Spend the money to speak with a GOOD attorney and a GOOD accountant, both of whom MUST be familiar with corporations and you will come out on top.

    And stop trying to do things to prevent your ex from coming after you.

    You can't prevent her from doing that but she can't come after things you created AFTER the divorce but can get the child support raised...maybe. Much of that is going to depend on where you were at the time of the divorce and how much your corporation pays you. You're not going to get away with minimum wage, so don't try that. Won't work and the court will drop a gavel on you hard.

    Why not just do the end run and go out and make enough money so that you don't care what she does as your problems with the ex seem to be the core issue here?

    And besides, why would you not want your kids to be raised in the same lifestyle to which you are or would like to become accustomed?
     
  7. JimmyTheGimp

    JimmyTheGimp Newbie

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    Sorry for the double post. Don't know just why that happened.
     
  8. greyhatdude

    greyhatdude Regular Member

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    Great advice, I thanked you. As for third world countries, I've pretty much decided to base myself in the USA but to do a lot of traveling (ala 4 hour work week) and to use Mark Nestmanns "Lifeboat Strategy" for financial diversification. I also recently had a run in with a total fruit-loop at work who threatened to sue everyone she came into contact with. I work for a medical institution and their attorneys will protect us, but it was a timely reminder of why you should take as many precautions as you can, regarding privacy and your finances. Keeping everything (or many things) offshore is a good way to at least throw up another barrier that can insulate you from frivolous bullshit like that.
     
  9. trixcyhicks

    trixcyhicks Newbie

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    Your post was actually very helpful for me. Although your post was actually a question, it helped me to realize the reality of the consequence of engaging in certain business practices.

    In order to make an educated decision about what the next business move will be, the facts are important. Good Luck
     
  10. greyhatdude

    greyhatdude Regular Member

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    You're welcome, but you could always use the "Thank You" button. (I don't know why, but I like seeing the "thanks" count go up.) I might not agree with everything my government does and I might resent being taxed on offshore activities when other countries don't do it, but I'm going to stay a US citizen and travel the world, at least until my children are adults and able to visit me offshore. I'll consider renouncing my citizenship after I'm done paying child support, because I might need the tax savings to help pay for their college.
     
  11. ostermeier

    ostermeier Newbie

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    Watch out. The IRS will potentially go after you if they determine that you renounced citizenship solely for tax purposes.

    Search: Expatriation Tax

    (Would post links, but not enough posts yet.)

     
  12. Venture

    Venture Regular Member

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    Cyprus bank acct ;)
     
  13. heavyweight

    heavyweight Junior Member Premium Member

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    Simple, renounce and move to cuba :D
     
  14. greyhatdude

    greyhatdude Regular Member

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    Wiki article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_Tax
    This is much better, completely lays it out for you:
    forbes.com/2010/03/23/expatriation-exit-tax-limbaugh-obamacare-personal-finance-robert-wood.html
    Thanks, I obviously looked it up - and what I found is irritating... I won't go into the details but basically the IRS wants to tax you on your net worth and several years of income, and you can't spend more than 30 days in the US each year after you expatriate. So you cannot escape the tax man and at my age (40) I and situation (divorced with young child) I might as well suck it up and stay a US citizen. I can minimize my living expenses by choosing where I spend my time and seek tax shelters within the US (different states have different tax advantages) but actually escaping US taxes looks like it is out of the question. If I don't make much money in IM I will move to rural america and if I do make some decent coin then I'll base myself in rural america but spend most of my time offshore. Se las vis.

    The politicians say "we" can't afford a tax cut. Maybe we can't afford the politicians. ~Steve Forbes
     
  15. agatto2

    agatto2 Newbie

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    Ya know - and weird to become a citizen of another county they want you to have x amount of money in an account or you do not qualify.

    The US is a dangerous and evil place to live - but you can make a good buck there.