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New to this community / SEO - [Hired to create a SEO/Marketing Dept at my job] - now what?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by GroovinMind, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    Hello everyone.

    I work for an online printing company. (I would rather not say who). I have been doing sales for the company for about 5 years now. I really dont belong behind the sales force as I am more of your computer nerd type. I have been online my entire life, know some code and basically been around the block when it comes to the internet. The owner of the company I work for agreed to take me out of sales and allow me to build/create a SEO/Marketing dept. Now the thing is I will be doing all this without pay until I can prove my "worth" to him and the company. Ive done my trolling on SEO for a few months now and I feel I have a excellent base of knowledge. I am hoping I can have some of you guys make sure I am going in the right direction and possibly throw me a bone or two with some knowledge.

    1. Is it worth my time to buy and learn all the programs such as SB / SEOnuke etc. Or should I just buy a "service" that is for sale here?
    a. If I were to buy services who do you suggest and for what services?

    2. As of now everything is out of my own pocket so I am trying to get the best bang for my buck right now. If I can prove to the company that this new dept and position that I am in is valuable and brings the company money then the company will allocate a certain amount of money to pay me and for me to use to promote for the company. So with that said I am also looking to establish a good healthy long relationship with a few people here who offer services.

    3. Has anyone here worked with a online printing company before and can suggest a tried and true method?

    cheers!
     
  2. mezzie911

    mezzie911 Junior Member

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    Oh man bro, if you bought all of the good software like a competition analyzer, a keyword harvester, ScrapeBox, XRumer, web 2.0 automation software, bookmarking software, article directory submission software, article spinning software, captcha solving software, etc, it would be so much money! And you would have to learn them because it sounds like you haven't even got a site up before.

    Practice and theory are two very different things bro. If you have never experienced IM but you think you know all the theory there is to know, when you actually go to DO IM you will forget right in the middle of what you're doing! You need experience too, like riding a skateboard. You can read 100 articles on how to perfectly ride a skateboard like Rodney Mullen, but your first time not "get" the proper foot balance technique that's required. That's how it is for me right now, I just finished some niche research and bought my EMD's yesterday with limited free trial tools.

    What worries me is that you aren't just doing this as a personal thing like I am, but are actually leading a company with your limited experience. I think it is such a great responsibility to take on so "young". I wouldn't want to jeopardize your company's site or anything (like sandboxing the company's mainpage).

    But you can do it, because when you try hard, you are always successful--even if it is a little bit.

    That being said, I do not have enough experience to accurately tell you which services to buy or if all of the above software is worth buying, but I can tell you that it will be a lot of money (>$500) and a lot of time before you get "acceptable" to use them all.
     
  3. ohaider

    ohaider Senior Member

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    Pro-tip: Find 10 low competetion, low searched terms and buy a few packages of wikilinks for your company site. Take before & after screenshots. Rank those keywords (should be easy) and then show your boss
     
  4. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Personally, I'd say fuck him.
    If you're wasting your own time and money on this, then atleast do something that's going to make you money.
    No way in hell I bust my ass to make someone else money, in hopes I get paid afterwards.
     
  5. danizdeman

    danizdeman Regular Member

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    Yeah ^^ what he said. Why in hell would he have you invest your time and resources for free?
    Tell him firmly that you require a certain budget.
    Outline what you need the budget for. Tell him that you are experienced in using these tools but you need to purchase them because you need 1 license per business.
    If, after providing him a typed-up analysis of costs, and you tell him with pure confidence you know what you're doing, and he refuses to pay you. Tell him forget about it, that you'll go back to what you were doing before as this is too much of a risk for you.

    If you can't fake some confidence and type up a report for him, then I suggest you abandon SEO altogether and stick to regular work.
     
  6. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    lol I appreciate your enthusiasm but its a mutual agreement between my company and I. I don't want to be in sales anymore and this is a excellent opportunity for me to get into another position of the company. Im still collecting my sales commission check and for the past few months all I have been doing is researching SEO. I love it. Ive been online my entire life. Regardless of Mezzie911's condescending statement that I am "young" (how would he know) and "never put a site up before" I am more than capable of learning any software quickly.

    As I mentioned before, Once I prove my worth and that my position is valuable to the company a budget will be created for it. Until then I need to show him that I can bring in money to the company. Also know that I am very close with the company's owner. Its not just some corp gig with no relationship between the owner and I.

    I want to do whatever I can to prove I can make this happen. If that means spend a few bucks on software or to outsource jobs so be it. In the big picture I will be making a lot of money with this company once this position is set.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  7. mezzie911

    mezzie911 Junior Member

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    I didn't mean to offend you in such a condescending manner, and I do apologize for that.

    I didn't literally mean that you were young, just that you had no experience practicing seo before. I can also understand that you are extremely close to your boss, as I have worked for family members before.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Oh, and I wish you success man! Lots and lots of success!
     
  8. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    Thanks Mezzie911.

    I look forward to sharing my success stories and methods in the future.
     
  9. MrBeastsOnToast

    MrBeastsOnToast Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Your enthusiasm sounds great man, your going to need it from the impression i got from your posts...

    If this sounds harsh i apologize in advance. But im under the impression from your posts that you have not tried to rank anything before.

    Learning how to set up and run the software (or buy services) is one very tiny piece of the HUGE puzzle that is SEO man. The software is useless if you dont know When and Where to use them. They are so easy to physically run at a basic level my nan could do it. if you are the "computer guy" then that im sure you will be ok with that. But thats not SEO - thats just running a few automated tools. Without knowing what your doing you could do some serious SERP damage / sandboxing / deindexing to your employers site.

    The skill, and the industry that is SEO, is much much more than just buying services / running software....

    For example you need a game plan on what quanatites of links, with what type of links, at what ratios, on what K/W's, with what anchor texts, at what velocity, with what amount of content generation, at what KW density with what social metrics, etc etc etc etc. (thats by no means a list - its just to give you an idea that you may be offering your employer a service you cant provide)

    So unless you purchase a full seo campaign (in which case what is it your actually doing again?) it dosent really matter if you buy the tools or buy services - you gotta know what your doing if your doing this for someone else. If you fuck his site up im sure he isnt gonna be best pleased...

    Get a couple of domains for yourself, work on them, learn on them, fuck them up instead (which is pretty easy to do with the state of SEO nowadays) - then when you know what your doing go to your employer. show him your rankings, show him you know what your doing, and get paid to do it. Instead of risking a ton, for free.

    Trust me - im a first class degree computer science student, i live on the internet, computers have been a main part of my life for all my life. I read for months and thought this SEO thing would be a walk in the park when i first got started. Reading about SEO and actually doing it are two very different things.

    tl;dr - Learn more on your own sites first, show your employer your rankings when you can do it, get paid. - SEO is not clicking a few buttons or spending in BST

    Peace
     
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  10. Dumper

    Dumper Supreme Member

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    Just sucks you are stuck having to pay for start up with a limited budget, they should at least help you get started.
     
  11. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    I really appreciate your reply!. This is excellent info and yes you are correct I never tried to rank a site before. I do however own a few domains and I also run my own internet radio station. If anyone here likes house or deep house music I can PM you the station link :) I actually planned on using those domains as a guinea pig for what I end up learning.

    Cheers and thanks for a constructive reply.
     
  12. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    They will have a small budget for adwords and google retargeting campaigns. But in regards to blackhat technique's and or programs they wont spend the cash on them. But if I can and if I can show results from doing so that is one step closer of me proving my worth.
     
  13. danizdeman

    danizdeman Regular Member

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    Adwords = paid traffic.
    SEO = organic.
    To get organic traffic you need to spend time/energy and money if you want to make things a little easier.
    So you're saying they won't spend money on a keyword research tool or AMR(Article marketing robot)? Article marketing is whitehat. Submitting to different directories by yourself is time consuming and wasteful.

    You really don't have much to prove. Just tell him you don't have much experience so you'll be doing SEO on the side for some dummy sites. However, make those dummy sites related to your business site. That way you'll be able to create some nice backlinks.

    If they won't spend money on tools then you need to either A) explain why they're necessary or B) Tell them they need to change their attitude if they want to get ranked.

    You're being too personal and not professional enough.
    Act like a serious consultant or you won't be treated like one.
    Have confidence.
    Outsource the SEO to places here on BHW(several good services) and reverse engineer or learn what they do so you could do it yourself.
    Good luck.
     
  14. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    Thanks..

    That was one of my questions. Who do you recommend that I outsource with on BHW?
     
  15. danizdeman

    danizdeman Regular Member

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    Depends on your budget/needs. Just look at the services section and find something with a lot of reviews.

    Also, you say you guys have a close relationship but he won't trust that you'll deliver and so he won't pay you till he sees results?
    Doesn't sound like a good relationship to me.
     
  16. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    Thanks I will do that.

    It has nothing to do with trusting that I will deliver or not. He knows I am learning and teaching myself SEO but for all I or he knows all my effort and time could be a big waste. If I cant generate money doing what I am doing why should I get paid for it? Since you dont know the exact backend details on what I do and how I get paid its hard for you to speculate that I am in a bad position. TBH I am in a great position. I get paid to learn SEO.
     
  17. MrBeastsOnToast

    MrBeastsOnToast Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Wait. What?
     
  18. GroovinMind

    GroovinMind BANNED BANNED

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    I no longer deal with the sales dept but I am still getting commission on all my clients. All I do everyday is research SEO. So I get paid to learn. Not that the back end logistics are relevant to my original questions but I can understand your curiosity.
     
  19. The_Clarkey

    The_Clarkey Junior Member

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    Have you tried practicing on your own sites yet? you could be doing more harm than good to your company at the moment. I'd definitely learn more: Tools can be a good way to learn what certain providers are doing. Worse thing you want to do is purchase a service from someone here and not know what they've done etc.. You don't want to be aimlessly buying services and hoping rankings will go up.

    But yeah, just start on your own sites first. Get a grasp of how to do some ranking for less competitive terms. Then do that for your company, show the results to your boss.
     
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  20. andee

    andee Regular Member

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    yeah I would not practice on your companies site !

    it would be really fun explaining to your boss how you got his site sandboxed/peanilised as youd got a little too happy link building.