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New Sites in 2016 Get Automatically Buried?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by Codliver, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Codliver

    Codliver Registered Member

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    I recently made 3 new websites (all on brand new domains). Prior to this I had not made any sites since early 2015.

    I've made dozen of sites in 2014 and 2015, and I know that a brand new site with no links, where the page(s) is optimized correctly for the keyword, will always land somewhere in the 50th-200th position on google, always. And this will happen within 3 days of publishing a new site. Sure, it may take months to a year to hit the first few pages, but you will always land within the top 200 positions nearly immediately if the website is set up correctly.

    However, this doesnt seem to apply anymore as of 2016. All 3 of the new sites I've made in the past few months have yet to have any of their pages even show up in the top 200 positions of google. And it's been about 2 months.

    I am wondering if there was an algo this year that basically made it so any brand new website will not even show up in google until it gets some amount of traffic or links to it, or meets a certain time frame? I am positive all of my new websites are not suffering from any penalization issues. So it cannot be that problem.

    Edit: All sites and pages are indexed in google.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  2. Leith

    Leith Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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  3. THUNDERELVI

    THUNDERELVI Elite Member

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    Are you sure your sites are indexed?
     
  4. Codliver

    Codliver Registered Member

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    Ah yea sandboxing has been going on for a while. You can be sandboxed in the 60th-80th position for months, that is normal. What I am saying is sites aren't ranking at all within the top 200 positions in google. To my knowledge, this is different from sandboxing because you're not even showing up.

    Yea I forgot to mention, all websites and pages are indexed.
     
  5. Leith

    Leith Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    You don't have to be ranked initially in order to be sandboxed. You can have a brand new site that is sandboxed from the very beginning.
     
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  6. THUNDERELVI

    THUNDERELVI Elite Member

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    Check your on-site SEO then, you have definitely triggered an over-optimization penalty. Sandbox is just a myth anyway, it doesn't actually exist. You don't need links to get out of this "imaginary zone", all you need to do is fix your over-optimization issues.
     
  7. Codliver

    Codliver Registered Member

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    Okay, well the same problem is still there. Rather than being sandboxed at the 50-200th position, I am not ranking at all and being sandboxed. Sandboxing itself isn't the issue.

    Yea that would make sense. Except on-page seo is my strongest skill in seo. I have tinkered with the on-page for weeks. I am positive there is no over-optimization penalties being triggered. To give you an example, I have tested every kw density on the page from a 1.5% to a 0.1% density and the result is still that no page shows up in google.
     
  8. THUNDERELVI

    THUNDERELVI Elite Member

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    Have you checked the keyword densities? Did you also build any links at all during this time? And most importantly, check if you have received any spam links recently - it wouldn't really make sense for you to be targeted by neg-SEO since you were never ranked at all, but you never know.
     
  9. Codliver

    Codliver Registered Member

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    Ah lol I just updated the previous post about kw density as you wrote that. So far I have tested every kw density on the page from a 1.5% to a 0.1% density over the course of a month and the result is still that no page shows up in google. There are no spam links to the sites. And there have been no links built to any sites.

    Like I mentioned in OP, normally what I've done would always have me falling in the 50th to 200th position for a new site in google a few days after being published (worked 100% of time in 2015 on dozens of sites, it's just the way things work).

    I thought maybe the first site was just a fluke for ranking at all, but then after making two more I knew it wasn't the case. I also thought it might be the hosts, like if there was a lot of bad sites on the same ip or something, but not likely to happen on three separate hosts on a fairly established platform like hostgator.

    I was hoping this was just the result of a new algo, but your replies are making me feel that it isnt.
     
  10. seoscientist

    seoscientist Registered Member

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    Yes, Google is definitely stricter with indexing and ranking in 2016.

    You need to make your website 'more' valuable in Google's eyes.

    This can happen naturally over a hundred years or you can build "votes" to your website.

    1. I presumed you have not build any backlinks to the homepage? If not, you have will to create a LOT of pages and wait for the Google juice to saturate your website before they will automatically rank for terms.

    2. My advice is to go build some social and contextual article links to your homepage and blog post. Just a few every week. The anchor text will help greatly.

    3. Add your website into WMT. My sites alway rank better and faster without many backlinks when they are inside WMT. It encourages google to crawl your content faster.
     
  11. Codliver

    Codliver Registered Member

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    I was considering this as a final attempt. I typically do not like adding sites to WMT because then all your sites, regardless of how many gmail accounts you have, are all tied to one IP. It would seem like that would be the easiest way for google to know all of your sites.

    Might just do it anyway.
     
  12. shimi

    shimi Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I think it have different from indexeing and ranking, i see my site indexed good and fast even its spunned artilces, but ranks - it another case - check if your site ranked is low competition kw
     
  13. seoscientist

    seoscientist Registered Member

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    Nothing to worry unless you are adding your PBN or doing something shady.

    I never have any sites deindexed after adding WMT.

    It's always the other way round !

    I add it to check why they were deindexed :)
     
  14. THUNDERELVI

    THUNDERELVI Elite Member

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    I see... Yes, I have the same experience - whenever I publish new articles or build new sites, my pages always rank for their designated keywords in Google (between 50 and 200 like you said) in max. 1 week (most of the times much sooner than that) after they are indexed. When they don't, I check my on-page SEO and mostly it's because of the keyword densities. Once I fix the densities, the pages start ranking again in 3-4 days.

    However, your case is a very strange one. I honestly have no more recommendations for you unless I check out the site myself. I never believed in the sandbox myth because of the very reason I explained above, but this case study is interesting. One more question, what niche are you in? As in the general niche (cars, insurance, technology, etc...) and how competitive are the keywords you are targeting? Last thing, check your domains' history on Wayback machine and see if they have been used before for any spam purposes (Chinese sites, PBN-s, etc...). Even if they have, it still doesn't make sense to me since the sites got indexed anyway with the new content.

    I don't think it would make sense at all for this to be an algorithm update, restricting new sites from ranking is not quite a viable and cost effective solution for Google.
     
  15. humphrytools

    humphrytools Regular Member

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    Yup. Changing ip for every site is a problem. Besides if you don't do shady things like PBN, spamming etc. the sites dont get de-indexed or hammered. Built 3 sites this year (amazon review type websites). Ranking in top 100 with just crowd search.
     
  16. THUNDERELVI

    THUNDERELVI Elite Member

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    And how the hell do you plan on ranking the websites then in the front page of Google?! Please don't tell me by writing articles only, because "content is king", I'm gonna puke!
     
  17. starki

    starki Power Member

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    There are definitely filters for competitive commercial terms, preventing new sites from ranking too fast, no matter how fast or slow you build links, no matter how agressive or careful your onpage optimization is. I wouldn't call it Sandbox, it's rather an algorithm preventing "zero to hero" stunts while Google keeps analyzing signals.

    They also have a patent for "rank transition", e.g. making a site drop in rankings first, to see if links are "real" or removed after the transition, a hint that someone in control of the links is getting nervous and stepped into their trap.

    From my observation, it also depends on the "size" of the site. Large sites with loads of subpages tend to start ranking faster, Onepagers or sites totally focussed on the mainpage, with just a few fluffer subpages, take much longer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
  18. THUNDERELVI

    THUNDERELVI Elite Member

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    I wouldn't know about highly competitive terms as I usually skip those, because it's not worth my time, effort and money. I target medium competitive keywords and build many sites instead of building 1 or 2 huge authority sites. And in these medium competitive niches and/or keywords, I have yet to see this sandbox. Also, I don't know what you call a large site, but my sites are usually 50-60 articles each on average and all of the sites' pages rank fine for their keywords. I haven't really built micro-niche sites in a long time now (1 main keyword in homepage + 4-5 or 10 tops filler internal pages).
     
  19. MonkeyJohn

    MonkeyJohn Regular Member

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    Have you tried plugging your site into Semrush to see if ranking for any keywords at all? I have a new site that is not ranking for main keywords but is for a few low volume long tails.
     
  20. Codliver

    Codliver Registered Member

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    Yea, that's exactly how it should be. The niche thing isn't the culprit as the 3 sites are in two different niches. Wayback machine was a given, I can confirm all sites are on totally fresh domains. While it doesnt make any sense, and only through the process of eliminating differences, I am starting to wonder if it has something to do with Hostgator. All new hostgator servers I've been given have this odd caching issue? where changes made to site can only be seen if you clear cache and logout. I don't see how or why that would be a ranking problem but it's the only difference I can notice.

    Yes. This has been going on since mid 2014. It definitely is real. I used to be able to make a site and have it number one in 2-3 days. Then there was a bit of a delay. Microniche sites if anything rank better as they are highly targeted, although established authority sites obviously have an edge due to age/trust. Regardless of all of this, what I'm talking about is still different. I'm not even getting that initial placement in the SERPS where what you are describing can then occur.